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Out of the Blue

Happy Lunar New Year! Today kicks off the Spring Festival as the Year of the Pig begins according to the traditional Chinese calendar. Specifically it's now the Year of the Earth Pig as we bid a fond fondue to the Year of the Dog. Of course, it will be weeks before I stop writing Year of the Dog on my checks. That is especially appropriate, though. As I mentioned last year, it's always the year of the dog here at the BlueTower (the Gunnar-man approves this message).

Links: Thanks Ant.
Stories: The Walking Dead Renewed for Season 10.
A Tourist Familyís Bad Behavior Has New Zealand Rethinking Its Welcome Mat. Thanks RedEye9.
Coroner: Fan struck in head by foul ball during Dodgers game died of blunt force injury. Thanks Reddit.
Science: Climate change will change the color of the oceans.
Inside-out dense iron planets probably the result of massive collision.
Media: GUESS THAT VIDEO GAME SONG CHALLENGE - FBE Staff Reacts.
The 2019 MarbleLympics Qualifying Round Is Just Stupidly Satisfying.
Groundhog Day ó An Inescapable Premise.
Follow-up: Peopleís fears about vaccines arenít just about vaccines.
The Funnies: Brevity.

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38 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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38. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 8, 2019, 13:11 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 7, 2019, 10:11:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 7, 2019, 02:46:

I think the issue is, how do we enforce that law? My initial suggestion was, no access to public schools until proof of vaccination.
The anti vaxxer freaks get around that by home schooling their pure untainted virginal angelic bundles of joy.
10% or so will take that route, sure. I think the rest will come to their senses. As mentioned, there are many states where this is a requirement, and they have many fewer outbreaks.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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37. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 7, 2019, 10:11 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 7, 2019, 02:46:

I think the issue is, how do we enforce that law? My initial suggestion was, no access to public schools until proof of vaccination.
The anti vaxxer freaks get around that by home schooling their pure untainted virginal angelic bundles of joy.
 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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36. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 7, 2019, 02:46 jdreyer
 
Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 10:12:
Nullity wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:58:
]You're right in that segregation isn't the answer. Vaccinations should simply be mandatory by law, with the only exception being medical.

But if vaccination was made law, I would have no problem with it and perhaps that just neatly sidesteps the entire matter.

I think the issue is, how do we enforce that law? My initial suggestion was, no access to public schools until proof of vaccination. In fact, that's how it works in my state, and guess what, despite being a major tourist destination, we haven't had a major preventable disease breakout here in decades.

So if vaccinations are required by law, what's the enforcement mechanism? Fines? Jail time? Loss of parenting rights?
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 14:36 Mr. Tact
 
Civility?! *sheesh* Let's not go too crazy...  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 14:28 Beamer
 
Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 14:11:
Just a misunderstanding, no apology necessary

Nah, totally worth it. Often we all quote someone to build on, rather than directly contradict, but it doesn't always come across that way.

If we do something that reasonably irks someone that we didn't mean to, it's always worth apologizing. You were reasonably irked. It's an unintentional misunderstanding that you totally get how it was misunderstood, so no I say apologize!

Good on Nullity - saves things from escalating, and everyone's happy, haha.
 
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 14:11 Kain
 
Just a misunderstanding, no apology necessary  
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32. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 11:10 Nullity
 
Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 10:12:
Nullity wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:58:
You're right in that segregation isn't the answer. Vaccinations should simply be mandatory by law, with the only exception being medical. I don't want to hear any of that "muh rights!" or religion BS either.

Err please don't try to position me as an anti-vaxxer as it seems you are trying to do in that quote. I have never made any of those arguments and have made my position pretty clear. I just don't want to punish the children of anti-vaxxers because their parents are morons.
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. It was just a general statement, as I know those would be common objections. Apologies for not being more clear.
 
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31. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 10:12 Kain
 
Nullity wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:58:
]You're right in that segregation isn't the answer. Vaccinations should simply be mandatory by law, with the only exception being medical. I don't want to hear any of that "muh rights!" or religion BS either.

Err please don't try to position me as an anti-vaxxer as it seems you are trying to do in that quote. I have never made any of those arguments and have made my position pretty clear. I just don't want to punish the children of anti-vaxxers because their parents are morons.

If only people were so rational. As the article (and literally every other similar article) makes perfectly clear, education has no effect.

I actually don't agree with your conclusion at all, from the article:

"But what the Amin/Omer research shows us is that vaccine hesitancy is deeply connected to our emotions. Feelings shape the decisions we make, which suggests that more information alone isnít going to change many hearts. It also tells us more than we ever knew about what vaccine-hesitant parents really care about, and those insights offer hope. We will never entirely eliminate fear of vaccines, which has been with us as long as vaccines themselves.

Itís true that some resistance is so entrenched that only higher hurdles for opting children out of vaccinating as a requirement for public school enrollment will do any good. But itís still worth trying to persuade. If we can find ways to frame the case for vaccination that appeal to the moral values that motivate parentsí hesitancy, weíll have more success convincing at least some of those mothers and fathers to make the emotionally difficult leap from their hesitancy to begrudging acceptance. That might reduce the frequency or severity of these outbreaks, move vaccination rates closer to levels that create ďherd immunity,Ē and do kids and communities a lot of good."

It seems pretty clear the authors of the study feel we can make progress by reframing the information and appealing to them in different ways rather than just trying to browbeat them with raw info. I think that's still education.

But if vaccination was made law, I would have no problem with it and perhaps that just neatly sidesteps the entire matter.
 
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30. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 09:58 Nullity
 
Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:22:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:04:
On the other hand, we shouldn't let those unvaxxed kids infect the rest of us.

I can't follow this logic through, you could argue that about so many other aspects of society. Bottom line is that I don't think its fair to segregate other children from society because of choices their parents made. It's frankly unrealistic to expect that we can somehow carve them out just because we don't like their silly parents.
You're right in that segregation isn't the answer. Vaccinations should simply be mandatory by law, with the only exception being medical. I don't want to hear any of that "muh rights!" or religion BS either. Not getting vaccinated has consequences (as we've seen recently), and those people don't have the right to put others in danger. This is a safety issue, both for the individual (children in this case, but also applies to adults who refuse) and society in general.

Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:22:
Some of you forget that even with vaccinations there can still be occurrences anyway.
Of course, but the severity is directly inversely proportional to the number of those who are vaccinated.

Kain wrote on Feb 6, 2019, 09:22:
Education and outreach is the way to go, it always wins out eventually.
If only people were so rational. As the article (and literally every other similar article) makes perfectly clear, education has no effect.
 
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 09:22 Kain
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:04:
On the other hand, we shouldn't let those unvaxxed kids infect the rest of us.

I can't follow this logic through, you could argue that about so many other aspects of society. Bottom line is that I don't think its fair to segregate other children from society because of choices their parents made. It's frankly unrealistic to expect that we can somehow carve them out just because we don't like their silly parents. Some of you forget that even with vaccinations there can still be occurrences anyway. If people are infected they will be quarantined from others and we will deal with it. Being alarmist about smallpox is neither here nor there, more serious and large scale situations are a different discussion.

Education and outreach is the way to go, it always wins out eventually.
 
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 05:52 bigspender
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:00:
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:56:
afka Rossini wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:54:
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:27:
Year of the Pig
Counterpoint: Year of the Pig

The Year of Tomorrow's Bacon?
Here is tomorrow's bacon.

I chopped a bunch of this veggie bacon into my carbonara pasta, and man, it's delicious.
 
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27. Re: Morning Tech Bits Feb 6, 2019, 03:36 Mordecai Walfish
 
Lots of devs are jumping onboard with exclusive or timed exclusive titles on the Epic store, and are pretty enthusiastic about it: https://rebel-galaxy.com/rebel-galaxy-outlaw-launching-on-epic-games-store-qa/

They do a pretty good job of laying out the smaller dev's perspective on the choice to get in on epic's storefront and get paid some of that fortnite money to give timed-exclusive rights
 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 6, 2019, 02:14 El Pit
 
afka Rossini wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 22:02:
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:56:
afka Rossini wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:54:
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:27:
Year of the Pig
Counterpoint: Year of the Pig

The Year of Tomorrow's Bacon?

I was going to go with a picture of the White House Press Secretary but why cast a pall over a perfectly good NIN performance.

This is a nice one, too...

Year of the... PIG
 
They're waiting for you, Gabe, in the test chamber!
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 22:02 afka Rossini
 
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:56:
afka Rossini wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:54:
El Pit wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 10:27:
Year of the Pig
Counterpoint: Year of the Pig

The Year of Tomorrow's Bacon?

I was going to go with a picture of the White House Press Secretary but why cast a pall over a perfectly good NIN performance.
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 21:55 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:33:
Extreme sports athletes and clumsy home cleaners aren't going to inflict their problem on 100s or 1000s of others. When people do dumb things that DO have the potential to injure or kill others, say drunk driving or cooking meth in your kitchen, we absolutely legislate and punish that. I guarantee you that if there was a smallpox outbreak in your town, you'd be the first one to advocate for a quarantine.

Then you better start checking some statistics because they far outweigh, in terms of cost, over what non-vaxxers cost. Perfect example, over half of all hospital emergency room visits are related to dental health. Billions of dollars wasted each year because most people don't have dental coverage and/or can't afford to see a dentist. That's easily solvable yet it persists year after year, decade after decade. What about driving? Biggest cost and killer of them all? There are so many things that are so much more costly and so much worse and they're never addressed so why this one? 40,000 plus fatalities and over 3 million injured in car crashes every year versus a few dozen cases of unvaccinated people getting sick? Are you kidding me?
 
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"Ah, Impressionists, the boy bands of the art world." - Sideshow Bob
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 20:43 WarPig
 
I'm sure any kids today reading Blue's joke will be asking, 'What's a check?'

And the answer is: A check is that thing that the person in front of me at the grocery store just starts to fill out after all the groceries are bagged and placed in their shopping cart.

"How much? Hmmmm, where is that check book, I'm sure I brought it. (two minutes later) Oh, there it is... how much was it? Oh are you sure? Did you ring up my coupons? Oh yeah, I have coupons. Now where are those coupons?" Wall2
 
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 18:33 jdreyer
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:23:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:04:
Kain wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 13:38:
HoSpanky wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 12:32:
Really, just demand that people who refuse to vaccinate their children have to live in an isolated community of other unvaccinated people, and that they cannot get medical help for any of the diseases the vaccine helps prevent. The problem will solve itself.

I can't get behind that because it's not fair to punish the children for their parent's stupidity. Unfortunately the anti-vaxx types congregate online in their own little communities so there is a lot of groupthink going on. As the previous poster said, more education and outreach is all we can do.
On the other hand, we shouldn't let those unvaxxed kids infect the rest of us.

So where do you draw the line at punishing stupidity? Anyone engaged in any sort of potentially dangerous and costly behavior should be on the hook for the legal and financial burdens? That would pretty much shut down life as we know it. How much do mountain climbers/skiers/sailors/hikers et al. anyone who requires rescue and/or medial aid because of their hobby cost society every year? What if you were cleaning your house an had an accident? Should you be responsible for that? On and on it goes.

Personally I feel there's a ton of dumb shit in society that people should be held accountable for but they're not. So then it's just picking on one group and letting the others skate by.

Extreme sports athletes and clumsy home cleaners aren't going to inflict their problem on 100s or 1000s of others. When people do dumb things that DO have the potential to injure or kill others, say drunk driving or cooking meth in your kitchen, we absolutely legislate and punish that. I guarantee you that if there was a smallpox outbreak in your town, you'd be the first one to advocate for a quarantine.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 18:25 jdreyer
 
Peopleís Fears About Vaccines Arenít Just About Vaccines

People's fears about election fraud aren't actually about election fraud, either.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 5, 2019, 18:23 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 18:04:
Kain wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 13:38:
HoSpanky wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 12:32:
Really, just demand that people who refuse to vaccinate their children have to live in an isolated community of other unvaccinated people, and that they cannot get medical help for any of the diseases the vaccine helps prevent. The problem will solve itself.

I can't get behind that because it's not fair to punish the children for their parent's stupidity. Unfortunately the anti-vaxx types congregate online in their own little communities so there is a lot of groupthink going on. As the previous poster said, more education and outreach is all we can do.
On the other hand, we shouldn't let those unvaxxed kids infect the rest of us.

So where do you draw the line at punishing stupidity? Anyone engaged in any sort of potentially dangerous and costly behavior should be on the hook for the legal and financial burdens? That would pretty much shut down life as we know it. How much do mountain climbers/skiers/sailors/hikers et al. anyone who requires rescue and/or medial aid because of their hobby cost society every year? What if you were cleaning your house an had an accident? Should you be responsible for that? On and on it goes.

Personally I feel there's a ton of dumb shit in society that people should be held accountable for but they're not. So then it's just picking on one group and letting the others skate by.
 
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"Ah, Impressionists, the boy bands of the art world." - Sideshow Bob
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19. Re: Help Stop Cervical Cancer Deaths Feb 5, 2019, 18:15 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 5, 2019, 17:00:
My favorite method of freaking out an anti-vaxxer is to recommend that their 11-12 yo daughter get the HPV vaccine. It never fails to spin one up. Grin


Especially in TX, I can imagine.

It took a lot of convincing of my wife to get our daughter HPV. "She'll never be exposed to that" combined with the online lies of things like "100s of children rendered sterile by HPV vaccine" made it an uphill climb.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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