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35. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 17:13 Beamer
 
Anyway, "merit" is the dumbest concept possible, and an absolute weasel-word.

WTF_Man, you're not making $10MM a year. Khloe Kardashian, meanwhile, is earning somewhere between $15MM and $20MM a year.

Are you dumber than Khloe Kardashian, or lazier than her? I mean, clearly she merits exponentially more than you make.

For me personally, I make as much as 8 or so average families of 4. Am I smarter than them? I'd guess that, within that 64 people, some are at least as smart. Do I work harder than them? I dunno, look at my posting history today and see how frequently I've been here. Your average construction worker definitely works harder than I do. Maybe something else happened in my life, other than just smarts or how hard I work, to get me where I am.

As do all the other people who basically fall into money, likely from inheritance. Because the American Dream isn't really about being an entrepreneur, as few of the 0.1% are, but about inheriting money. Takes money to make money!
 



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34. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 17:10 Beamer
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:50:

Go tell an A-list hollyweird actor / acterss that they can only charge what a c-list person makes because you think they make too much.


Yes, because $10MM is what c-list people make... wait, why am I talking to someone that actually typed out "hollyweird."

But let's say that Robert Downey Jr. was only making $10MM on Iron Man 8. What would happen? Well, the movie would still make a bazillion dollars, and that money needs to go somewhere. The executives are also making enormous amounts of money. Where does the money go?

To the people working on the film for next to nothing, like the key grip.
 



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33. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 16:53 wtf_man
 
Squirmer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 16:29:

Median US income:
Asian: 81k
White: 68K
Hispanic: 50K
Black 40K

"Some people are just better" starts to sound a little awkward...

Why are you even brining race into this? We're talking anyone based on his or her own merits.

Most people push themselves to make their lives better. It isn't handed to them. If anything, you should be celebrating all of those that pushed themselves to work themselves out of poverty (regardless of color).

If you want to "stereotype" the reasons regarding your list for those "racial statistics"... I would guess that Asians would be thought of as the most diciplined of the group, hence higher acheivers in general. That doesn't take away from the MVP black athelete that has a multi-million dollar a year contract. It's just a different form of acheivment and tougher to accomplish since not everyone can be MVPs.

So, now are we all going to start yelling "Asian Privelidge"???
 
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32. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 16:40 RedEye9
 
Squirmer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 16:29:
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:50:
And who has the right to impose a salary cap? If I make a multi-million dollar business from nothing like a viral .com or whatever), I have the right to reap the full benefits of it. Your thinking punishes achievement. Acheivement is mostly what separates wealth. It has no color, religion, or sexual preference.

People are NOT equal. Some have more talent than others. Some are better athletes. Some are better thinkers. Some are better entrepenures, some are better entertainers.

Median US income:
Asian: 81k
White: 68K
Hispanic: 50K
Black 40K

"Some people are just better" starts to sound a little awkward...
The "American Dream" does not apply to every American.
 
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31. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 16:29 Squirmer
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:50:
And who has the right to impose a salary cap? If I make a multi-million dollar business from nothing like a viral .com or whatever), I have the right to reap the full benefits of it. Your thinking punishes achievement. Acheivement is mostly what separates wealth. It has no color, religion, or sexual preference.

People are NOT equal. Some have more talent than others. Some are better athletes. Some are better thinkers. Some are better entrepenures, some are better entertainers.

Median US income:
Asian: 81k
White: 68K
Hispanic: 50K
Black 40K

"Some people are just better" starts to sound a little awkward...
 
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30. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 14:17 Cutter
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:13:
If anything... it should be a flat one bracket tax with ZERO deductions for EVERYONE. (except of course poverty level being exempt)

I've always said that. 5% sales tax - no exemptions. 10% on income, no exemptions. Doesn't matter how you make money or what you call it, if it's money coming to you it's income and you pay your 10 points. 10 points on ALL stock trades - or more to put an end to all this micro-trading bullshit.

Everyone would end up paying a lot less - I'd assume most people here already pay between 20%-30% on income and government would cost a lot less getting rid of all that unnecessary employment associated with the tax industry.

But that would make sense.
 
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29. Re: Morning Patches Jan 22, 2019, 14:06 wtf_man
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 13:49:

I sure wish I got to keep 90% of what I earned now.

Well... technically you still wouldn't. State income tax (most states), property tax, sales tax, registration fees, medicare, social security, etc. etc. etc.

We're already taxed way more than our "income tax bracket"
 
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28. Re: Morning Patches Jan 22, 2019, 13:49 Agent.X7
 
TheBigVlad wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 13:23:
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:20:
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:13:
Yes we would mostly all pay a little more... but the asshats in congress wouldn't be paying 15% while the rest of us are paying higher percentage brackets. Everyone would be paying the same percentage, which is fair.
It is difficult to define "fair" in this context. But I suspect a very large majority would prefer a graduated/progressive tax system. There were plenty of extremely rich people even when the top bracket was 90%..

Everyone pays 10%. Boom, Fair.

You make $1.00 you pay .10 cents.
You make $50,000 you pay $5,000
You make $500,000 you pay $50,000

The more you make, the more you pay, but everyone gets to keep 90% of what they earn. As it stands now, a good chunk of businesses pay no taxes at all due to the crazy tax codes we have, and people can claim tax exemptions due to "non-profit" status. I don't care if you label yourself a "non-proft", you need to be taxed because we all know you are making money anyway. (Bill and Hillary, I'm looking at you and also the Mega-Churches who make more money than god.)

I sure wish I got to keep 90% of what I earned now.

And before you ask how we pay for things: We don't care. Sorry foreign aid, you need to go bye bye. Our taxes should never pay for that anyway. Sorry porkfat projects, no funding available. Sorry. Keep to the budget, no overspending. I don't get to spend more than I can ever pay back without massive repercussions, why should the government?

 
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27. Re: Morning Patches Jan 22, 2019, 13:23 TheBigVlad
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:20:
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:13:
Yes we would mostly all pay a little more... but the asshats in congress wouldn't be paying 15% while the rest of us are paying higher percentage brackets. Everyone would be paying the same percentage, which is fair.
It is difficult to define "fair" in this context. But I suspect a very large majority would prefer a graduated/progressive tax system. There were plenty of extremely rich people even when the top bracket was 90%..

Yea, I'm curious how having everyone pay the same percentage is somehow "fair". I mean, why stop there? Why not have everyone pay $20,000/year in federal taxes. Wouldn't that be more fair? If you think that a flat percentage is fair, then you already agree that the rich should pay more than the poor, so the debate really is just about how much more the people that have benefited the most from our economic system should pay in taxes, than those who have been less fortunate. I don't see why it's so radical, then, to suggest a slight tweak to those numbers.
 
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26. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:58 D-Rock
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:47:
Creston wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:41:
Well, there goes every charitable organization. They're done.

True and I've always been uneasy with this thought. Perhaps that needs to end, it isn't charitable in good faith, it's charitable because it's a business plan saying it's a smart thing for me to do and then dollars to isn't all above board either, enough money not making it to the cause.

Who wants charity? People want to earn it, if a flat tax happened, things once again will adapt to the new world to better the cause, so these causes would work in another way. I'd love to see Church's stop being Tax Exempt, because I can't escape thinking many/most of them at the top are only there because of a Tax Break and not the religion they sell as hook.

Charitable organizations would certainly have to adapt, but hey, while we're being idealistic here...what's wrong with 'true' charity.

Someone like Bill Gates might be OK without the tax exemption and there are plenty of people who don't expect it so there will still be $$$ for charity. Maybe not as much, but it will force charity organizations to be more efficient -- that's not a bad thing.

And the religion tax exemption absolutely needs to go! Most churches today are businesses and behave as such. The exemption is often abused and if we have a flat tax rate across the board it should apply to religious organizations as well.
 
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25. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:50 wtf_man
 
Taxation is paying for things. Infrastructure was the intent... not supporting the lazy and entitiled.

And who has the right to impose a salary cap? If I make a multi-million dollar business from nothing like a viral .com or whatever), I have the right to reap the full benefits of it. Your thinking punishes achievement. Acheivement is mostly what separates wealth. It has no color, religion, or sexual preference.

People are NOT equal. Some have more talent than others. Some are better athletes. Some are better thinkers. Some are better entrepenures, some are better entertainers.

Go tell an A-list hollyweird actor / acterss that they can only charge what a c-list person makes because you think they make too much.

 
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24. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:50 D-Rock
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:37:
"That chick sucks" is something a moron says.

No, it's an opinion.

In your opinion it's something a moron would say. While it could have been presented in a more articulate and socially acceptable way, I have to agree that AOC is a woefully inexperienced representative that so far has been incredibly ineffective. She said one too many asinine things prior to her election into office for me to ever take her seriously.

Or the more simplified version -- she sucks.

Your opinion is that she doesn't suck. That's fine too.
 
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23. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:47 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:41:
Well, there goes every charitable organization. They're done.

True and I've always been uneasy with this thought. Perhaps that needs to end, it isn't charitable in good faith, it's charitable because it's a business plan saying it's a smart thing for me to do and then dollars to isn't all above board either, enough money not making it to the cause.

Who wants charity? People want to earn it, if a flat tax happened, things once again will adapt to the new world to better the cause, so these causes would work in another way. I'd love to see Church's stop being Tax Exempt, because I can't escape thinking many/most of them at the top are only there because of a Tax Break and not the religion they sell as hook.
 
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22. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:41 HorrorScope
 
It's true to a point and I'm very fine with her stating that, but what are you/we going to do about it? We need to adapt to the world we live in. Am I supposed to do something the hard way because it maybe better from my cardiovascular and spirit or do I do things an efficient way because my brain can formulate? I think a lot of all these new vs old starts here. People that want to turn the clock back are saying we have to keep our minds more at home and not think too much, but how do you do that? How do you get everyone to do it, because the person that doesn't immediately gets an upper hand on you.

We just all need to learn to adapt. The good news Pam is we don't have any shortage of people on the planet so procreation isn't critical currently and women like to be independent and strong so a man isn't vital anymore. Adapt, because it's the only reality we have.
 
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21. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:40 D-Rock
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:29:

Because it's literally a different way of thinking about it. He's approaching taxation as paying for things, I'm approaching it as a salary cap. Literally thinking about its purpose differently.

Fair enough, but what exactly makes him "wrong"? Is he not allowed to take a different approach in your world?
 
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20. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:38 D-Rock
 
ldonyo wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:20:
There's nothing radical about a national healthcare system...

In this case it would be radical since it's entirely different from what's already been established. My tax dollars go to healthcare systems that we currently have in place to make sure the elderly and poor have coverage, and it makes more sense to improve upon existing systems versus create an entirely new system (again). Obamacare failed miserably. AOC's ideas are unrealistic and she continuously fails by presenting 'great ideas' without having a feasible plan to implement.
 
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19. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:37 Beamer
 
D-Rock wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:07:
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 10:44:
Oh, wait, you mean the new politician that literally just took office. She's half your age and has accomplished more than you, but of course you dismiss her as just "that chick." Much like how yesterday you called another woman a "bitch."

Heaven forbid he decides to have an opinion on the matter. Your constant condescension is getting old. Must you be a part of every single conversation? I can't possibly be the only one who is sick and tired of your arrogance.

You'd call "isn't that chick's 15 minutes up?" an opinion? Or at least one worth bringing up? He didn't criticize her policy, he complained about hearing about her. Given that she was just sworn in this month, he's going to be hearing about her for a long time.

"I disagree with her policy on XYZ" is an opinion. "That chick sucks" is something a moron says.
 



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18. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:29 Beamer
 
D-Rock wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 12:12:
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:27:

You're thinking about it wrong.

Would it kill you to say "I disagree" versus calling everyone that doesn't fall in line with the rules of your special bubble "wrong"?

Because it's literally a different way of thinking about it. He's approaching taxation as paying for things, I'm approaching it as a salary cap. Literally thinking about its purpose differently.
 



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17. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:20 ldonyo
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:20:
wtf_man wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:13:
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 10:50:
I've been saying it here forever, but going back to something similar to Eisenhower's tax plan seems like a no-brainer. It's so odd to me that so many people that would benefit from it, and have no hope of ever making $10MM a year, seem to think it's a bad idea.

It's easy to say "take" what doesn't belong to you.

That said... going back to 24 tax brackets, everyone paying higher taxes, tax laws have changed where property is on longer considered "depreciation"... you are smoking some good stuff.

If anything... it should be a flat one bracket tax with ZERO deductions for EVERYONE. (except of course poverty level being exempt)

Yes we would mostly all pay a little more... but the asshats in congress wouldn't be paying 15% while the rest of us are paying higher percentage brackets. Everyone would be paying the same percentage, which is fair.

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:12:
AOC has mysogynists running scared. beautiful

Being scared of radical socialist politics has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny. I'm gettin fairly sick and tired of the "prejudice card" being played every time somone disagrees with a far winged politics.
There's nothing radical about a national healthcare system or in asking the ultra-wealthy to pay a high rate on the extreme ends of their income. A vast majority of the developed world does the former and we used to do the latter, until really rich folks started writing tax law. What ought to scare you is the Mango Maggot controlling our nuclear arsenal and the fact that he is just plain stupid enough to use it during one of his Twitter meltdowns.
 
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16. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 22, 2019, 12:12 D-Rock
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 11:27:

You're thinking about it wrong.

Would it kill you to say "I disagree" versus calling everyone that doesn't fall in line with the rules of your special bubble "wrong"?
 
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