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75. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 25, 2019, 04:21 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 18:00:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 17:11:
Make a flat tax of 40% of all income over $100,000 per individual, no deductions.
I'd be glad to listen to arguments for and against the particular numbers, but I think this is reasonable way to go about it. Flat rate over a set dollar amount (which would be adjusted for inflation). Or maybe two levels even -- say, something like X% over $100,000, Y% over $1,000,000.

I could see that. No tax up to $100K. Then 35%. Then 50% for everything over $1M.

I chose $100K since it's about double the median income. It still encourages the vast majority of earners to earn more without getting hit with a tax bill. Keeping the money in the hands of the people who will spend it (poor and middle classes) is the best way to create and sustain a robust economy. When the rich have all the money, shit stagnates since they hoard.

Also, let's tax capital gains at 50%, not 15%.
 
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74. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 24, 2019, 11:06 RedEye9
 
@Beamer,
the dude is a self-admitted troll who is more interested in getting a rise out of you than having an intelligent conversation, don't waste your time.
 
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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
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73. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 21:57 ventry
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 21:31:
Dude, if you're center then Cheney was a liberal. Do you read your posts on this site? You're more right than I'm left. You're just not very self aware.

Just because I take on the lefty's on this platform doesn't automatically mean I am like this in real life.
You are making assumptions.
Which makes you a Horrible BIGOT! (going by YOUR rules)

Care to address the other stuff in that post or have you got NOTHING!!

https://i.redd.it/rujh2iuqp9c21.jpg

This comment was edited on Jan 24, 2019, 01:06.
 
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72. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 21:31 Beamer
 
Dude, if you're center then Cheney was a liberal. Do you read your posts on this site? You're more right than I'm left. You're just not very self aware.  



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71. removed Jan 23, 2019, 19:31 ventry
 
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70. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 19:00 wtf_man
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 17:11:
Make a flat tax of 40% of all income over $100,000 per individual, no deductions.

A bit high... but I already advocated a flat tax.
 
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69. removed Jan 23, 2019, 18:24 ventry
 
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68. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 18:00 Mr. Tact
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 17:11:
Make a flat tax of 40% of all income over $100,000 per individual, no deductions.
I'd be glad to listen to arguments for and against the particular numbers, but I think this is reasonable way to go about it. Flat rate over a set dollar amount (which would be adjusted for inflation). Or maybe two levels even -- say, something like X% over $100,000, Y% over $1,000,000.
 



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67. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 17:55 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 17:11:
Make a flat tax of 40% of all income over $100,000 per individual, no deductions.
If you're gonna set it higher than the United Kingdom does that mean we can get affordable healthcare again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_Kingdom
 
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66. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 17:17 jdreyer
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 14:06:
Beamer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 12:16:
But you've shifted. You've argued raising taxes are bad, then said it would be on you (she's been pretty clear she wouldn't impact the middle class, but we can argue about what the middle class is), and now it's because there'd be loopholes (she's talking about killing these loopholes.)

Lots of politicians have talked about closing the loop holes.
None have done so.
Lots of politicians have sworn to only tax the rich more and not affect the middles class. So far, that hasn't happened either.

I don't trust anyone that says "raise taxes on the rich" when I know that is not what will really happen.

Also... I didn't "shift" as much as you think... I totally disagree with both raising taxes AND getting rid of the loop holes, espcecially at the tax rates that OC wants to impose. One or the other... not both. I prefer the loop holes being closed as to raising taxes at an astronomical rate.

That said... in a perfect world the government wouldn't be spending more than it takes in, and it wouldn't be spending money on a lot of stupid stuff. ("stupid stuff" is subjective)... All of Washington is to blame for that.... not just one party or another.

There is nothing wrong with some debt spending. It allows the government to fund multiple initiatives at once. People do this too:finance two cars, because you and your wife each need a car to get to work, and you can't afford to pay cash for both right now.
 
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65. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 17:11 jdreyer
 
Make a flat tax of 40% of all income over $100,000 per individual, no deductions.  
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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64. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 14:06 wtf_man
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 12:16:
But you've shifted. You've argued raising taxes are bad, then said it would be on you (she's been pretty clear she wouldn't impact the middle class, but we can argue about what the middle class is), and now it's because there'd be loopholes (she's talking about killing these loopholes.)

Lots of politicians have talked about closing the loop holes.
None have done so.
Lots of politicians have sworn to only tax the rich more and not affect the middles class. So far, that hasn't happened either.

I don't trust anyone that says "raise taxes on the rich" when I know that is not what will really happen.

Also... I didn't "shift" as much as you think... I totally disagree with both raising taxes AND getting rid of the loop holes, espcecially at the tax rates that OC wants to impose. One or the other... not both. I prefer the loop holes being closed as to raising taxes at an astronomical rate.

That said... in a perfect world the government wouldn't be spending more than it takes in, and it wouldn't be spending money on a lot of stupid stuff. ("stupid stuff" is subjective)... All of Washington is to blame for that.... not just one party or another.
 
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63. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 12:16 Beamer
 
Yes, the deck is stacked against the middle class (and the lower class, who no one ever seems to care about, other than false claims that they're taking their money.) Reagan really did a number on the middle class, and we seem unable to, or unwilling to, fix that.

But you've shifted. You've argued raising taxes are bad, then said it would be on you (she's been pretty clear she wouldn't impact the middle class, but we can argue about what the middle class is), and now it's because there'd be loopholes (she's talking about killing these loopholes.)

In the long run, Trump's cuts may have cut for the middle class, but the cuts for the 0.1% is so high that it does not matter. We may save some money in taxes, but it will be at the expense of wages stagnating even more, which is worse for us. I'd rather everyone's taxes go up some, with the 0.1% going up so much that wages increase for all, than everyone's go down some, but taxes stagnate. Even for a small business owner, growing wages means more money the middle class has to spend on you.
 



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62. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 11:07 wtf_man
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 20:12:
The trolling I was referring to is asinine statements like "Well... why don't you give away "6 or so's of families of 4's" of your salary."

That wasn't intended as trolling.
I don't understand the concept of "if someone has it, it's ok to just take it"... I equate that to stealing. If I suddenly got rich... doesn't matter how... instant business success, lotto, inheritance, whatever, that doesn't give society the right to just grab 70%-90% of it. To me, THAT is asinine.

That said, Mr. Beamer is in favor of Eiesenhower tax brackets.... which means everyone pays a lot more, not just the rich. So, I equate that to he thinks it is ok to give a majority of his earnings to the governent. More power to him. Please leave me out of that.

Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 20:36:
1) And, weirdly, she's not proposing raising taxes on you.

Unfortunately that's bullshit and we all know it. When the left raises taxes... it's on EVERYONE. The Rich find a few more "tax shelters" and still don't pay their bracket...and the Middle class gets screwed... AGAIN. We can't afford to make a ton of investments that shelter us from taxes, like the rich can (which makes them more money in the long run).

I'm not debating that the rich aren't paying their fair share. I'm debating that the deck is stacked aginst the Middle Class, and just raising taxes is not the answer, because it always affects MORE than the rich.


How about we get rid of deductions for the two highest brackets?

No need to charge them 70% when they end up still only paying 15%. 37% with no deductions actually sounds reasonble, and doesn't appear like the government is trying to rape folks "that have it".

---------

Just want to say this has been an intersting debate and I am glad it has remained relatively civil.
 
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61. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 10:58 Creston
 
The Pyro wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 08:39:
Well, there goes every charitable organization. They're done.

Donations never improve your finances anyway; it's a subsidized gift, but it still costs you money. Unless, of course, you donate to your own organization and then skim off the top somehow...

No, but it's an incentive. Take away that incentive, and charitable giving will go down substantially. And let's be honest, you're talking about median or lower households giving to charity, but that's not where most of their money comes from. Most of their money comes from the Bill Gates types, for whom the tax write-off on 200 million dollars IS important.
 
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60. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 09:44 Beamer
 
Dev wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 22:49:
Beamer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 20:36:
If you think Monopoly is more fun if you get paid when landing on Free Parking, you can't just do it - everyone needs to agree to.

Protip, using non official house rules like this is part of why monopoly takes like 5 hours to play.

Also, personally, the only version of monopoly I'll play is the one with the 3rd dice to speed up things.

There are so many better board games than monopoly that take only an hour or so to play.

Even by standard rules, Monopoly is a garbage game in which you can determine who will win within 5-10 minutes, and then spend an hour or two slowly going broke while one guy sucks up all the income and wealth.

It's kind of like real life, right? And was also why it was created - to demonstrate that one guy can become so wealthy no one else can survive.

Of course, to make it like real life, one person should start the game with a hotel or two, $1000 additional in cash, and then say he got it all in a "small loan" from his father.
 



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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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59. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 09:43 D-Rock
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 20:12:
.

As for AOC, she has been brilliant.

While I don't agree with her, I do agree that her approach is what the Democratic party needs right now. She's the 'anti-Trump'.
 
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58. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 09:42 D-Rock
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 22, 2019, 19:56:

I don't think that D-Rock and wtfman are trolling. They actually believe that a flat tax would be superior.

Um...no...I never said a flat tax would be superior. There is no 'superior' option -- just pros and cons to each one.

Also...I enjoy trolling Beamer. It's fun to see him get all worked up!
 
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57. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 09:41 Beamer
 
Squirmer wrote on Jan 23, 2019, 03:19:
Either you're a troll or a lost cause because "here's a photo of snow therefore there's no global warming" is the stupidest level you could descend to.

He's not a troll, he's anti-science and anti-knowledge (the right terms, I think, for most die-hard ultra right wingers) and therefore can't understand that "weather" and "climate" aren't the same.

It's record highs in Adelaide, killing off their flying fox population, but it snowed in Ohio in January and therefore everything is cool!
 



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56. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 23, 2019, 08:39 The Pyro
 
Well, there goes every charitable organization. They're done.

To be fair, we've already reached the point where more than half of American households can't feasibly get a tax writeoff for charitable donations. Median income is ~61k, while the 2019 standard deduction is either 18k or 24k for families. That's like 30% to 40% of your entire income. The only way most people are going to hit that is by taking a huge hit on mortgage interest and/or health care expenses, which isn't exactly charity.

Donations never improve your finances anyway; it's a subsidized gift, but it still costs you money. Unless, of course, you donate to your own organization and then skim off the top somehow...
 
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