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17.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 30, 2018, 21:57
17.
Re: etc. Nov 30, 2018, 21:57
Nov 30, 2018, 21:57
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 17:42:
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 11:40:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 08:43:
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 02:43:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
He was also the official composer of the Third Reich.

Citation? I don't believe this was a thing.

Citation. Though it is Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt. To summarize succinctly, it is a matter of debate as to whether Orff was in any way associated with the NSDAP or not.

I'd looked at the article, and didn't see anything that suggested he was the official composer of the Nazi party. What do you see that says he was?
Hitler was quoted as saying this on a number of occasions. But it was Hitler's unofficial designation that Orff never rejected.

Well, again, citation? A quick Google search didn't turn this up.

He was definitely a Nazi and collaborated with them, which should be enough for my point.

I don't see this, either. He made music for them -- although certainly not Carmina -- because they were in charge of Germany, and he tried to cozy up to them to get them to buy his work. But I don't see anything that suggests he was a proponent of their ideals. I don't think he was any more a Nazi than Daimler-Benz making armaments for the Reich, or most of the soldiery. I think he's a poor example for this argument.
16.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 30, 2018, 17:42
16.
Re: etc. Nov 30, 2018, 17:42
Nov 30, 2018, 17:42
 
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 11:40:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 08:43:
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 02:43:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
He was also the official composer of the Third Reich.

Citation? I don't believe this was a thing.

Citation. Though it is Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt. To summarize succinctly, it is a matter of debate as to whether Orff was in any way associated with the NSDAP or not.

I'd looked at the article, and didn't see anything that suggested he was the official composer of the Nazi party. What do you see that says he was?
Hitler was quoted as saying this on a number of occasions. It was not a "position" in an organization, per se. But it was Hitler's unofficial designation that Orff never rejected. He was definitely a Nazi and collaborated with them, which should be enough for my point.
15.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 30, 2018, 11:40
15.
Re: etc. Nov 30, 2018, 11:40
Nov 30, 2018, 11:40
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 08:43:
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 02:43:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
He was also the official composer of the Third Reich.

Citation? I don't believe this was a thing.

Citation. Though it is Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt. To summarize succinctly, it is a matter of debate as to whether Orff was in any way associated with the NSDAP or not.

I'd looked at the article, and didn't see anything that suggested he was the official composer of the Nazi party. What do you see that says he was?
14.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 30, 2018, 08:43
14.
Re: etc. Nov 30, 2018, 08:43
Nov 30, 2018, 08:43
 
Orogogus wrote on Nov 30, 2018, 02:43:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
He was also the official composer of the Third Reich.

Citation? I don't believe this was a thing.

Citation. Though it is Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt. To summarize succinctly, it is a matter of debate as to whether Orff was in any way associated with the NSDAP or not.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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13.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 30, 2018, 02:43
13.
Re: etc. Nov 30, 2018, 02:43
Nov 30, 2018, 02:43
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
He was also the official composer of the Third Reich.

Citation? I don't believe this was a thing.
12.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 22:13
12.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 22:13
Nov 29, 2018, 22:13
 
NKD wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 21:56:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 21:36:
Does an artist's personal opinions or behavior invalidate their art?

Isn't that answer going to be different for everyone? Some people will be able to enjoy someones art despite whatever objectionable things they've done or said, others will have their enjoyment ruined by it.

There's really not much anyone can do about it. Some people can compartmentalize like that, others cannot.

That's a good answer. I can accept either response, honestly. But the problem lies in the all too common hypocrisy that follows. If you can't handle the art from the extreme or offensive, fine. If you believe that the artist does not taint the art, fine. But the very same people who declare that the artist must be evaluated with their art seem only to do so when the artist is someone they don't like. Ditto that for the other option.

The same people who decry intolerance and hateful speech are usually nowhere nearly as concerned with tolerating opinions they don't agree with, and they are often the first to use hateful terms for their opponents.

So I agree with you, as long as the rules apply just as equally for thee as for me...
11.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 21:56
NKD
11.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 21:56
Nov 29, 2018, 21:56
NKD
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 21:36:
Does an artist's personal opinions or behavior invalidate their art?

Isn't that answer going to be different for everyone? Some people will be able to enjoy someones art despite whatever objectionable things they've done or said, others will have their enjoyment ruined by it.

There's really not much anyone can do about it. Some people can compartmentalize like that, others cannot.
Thou art an artless, greasy tallow-catch.
Avatar 43041
10.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 21:36
10.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 21:36
Nov 29, 2018, 21:36
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 19:27:
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?

The definition of "racist, sexist or anti-semitic" is constantly expanding.

"Sex is determined by chromosomes at conception." Congratulations, you're a sexist and a transphobe! Hell, you might even be against women's rights ("conception" is a word used by those crazy anti-abortion people, right?).

Carl Orff was a brilliant composer and his Carmena Burana one of the greatest pieces of music ever arranged. He was also the official composer of the Third Reich. Yet somehow, because he was associated with this great evil, I'm supposed to judge his cantatas for his personal opinions and beliefs. Fuck all of the intersectional, postmodern progressive bullshit that can't see the art for the artist. It's one thing to not endorse someone's opinions or beliefs. It's another to refuse to recognize their skills, talents, or art...

Nothing is expanding, it's just that people remain willfully ignorant, no matter how many times things are explained to them. For example, I know for a fact you've been explained the difference between "sex" and "gender" probably a thousand times, yet here you are, making a strawman argument that confuses the two. It also excludes people with abnormal chromosones.

When someone asks, "How many fingers do humans have on one hand?" the answer "five" excludes those with polydactylism and amputees. That doesn't change the fact that it is the correct answer (both in a statistical sense and a biological one). As for strawmanning, when transwomen sue insurance companies for coverage for female reproductive procedures (despite the fact that they lack the working organs said procedures would cover), they are not asserting that they have a different gender. They are asserting they are biologically female. But you know that. You are the king of strawmanning. This discussion wasn't even about that, but you focus on a throwaway example to deflect from the real issues.

Especially since you didn't address the basic point I expressed. Does an artist's personal opinions or behavior invalidate their art?
9.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 19:27
Beamer
 
9.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 19:27
Nov 29, 2018, 19:27
 Beamer
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:48:
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?

The definition of "racist, sexist or anti-semitic" is constantly expanding.

"Sex is determined by chromosomes at conception." Congratulations, you're a sexist and a transphobe! Hell, you might even be against women's rights ("conception" is a word used by those crazy anti-abortion people, right?).

Carl Orff was a brilliant composer and his Carmena Burana one of the greatest pieces of music ever arranged. He was also the official composer of the Third Reich. Yet somehow, because he was associated with this great evil, I'm supposed to judge his cantatas for his personal opinions and beliefs. Fuck all of the intersectional, postmodern progressive bullshit that can't see the art for the artist. It's one thing to not endorse someone's opinions or beliefs. It's another to refuse to recognize their skills, talents, or art...

Nothing is expanding, it's just that people remain willfully ignorant, no matter how many times things are explained to them. For example, I know for a fact you've been explained the difference between "sex" and "gender" probably a thousand times, yet here you are, making a strawman argument that confuses the two. It also excludes people with abnormal chromosones.
8.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 19:11
8.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 19:11
Nov 29, 2018, 19:11
 
NKD wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:24:
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?

It's an easy way to rack up a bunch of followers. Even if you don't believe what you're saying, spewing a bunch of edgy shit attracts children and manchildren like flies to cow shit.
Instant Following. pretty much this
Then when they get barred they can pour on the white tears. Bunch of morans.
And one of the most horrible things they did was At Awesome Games Done Quick in 2017, a couch commentator was banned after wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat, there's no fixing that.

I'm ok if the whole speedrunning thing is barred.

A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test.
It's a compassion test.
It's a decency test.
It's a social responsibility test.
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7.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 18:37
7.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 18:37
Nov 29, 2018, 18:37
 
Squirmer wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 17:12:
deqer wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 14:37:
I liked this comment: "It's incredibly 2018 that someone who in their Twitter handle explicitly identifies with a violent hate group is proudly sharing screenshots of *other* people saying ugly stuff in a successful attempt to get them shunned."
Opposing fascists doesn't mean you're a violent hater, it means you're a decent person.
"There are two kinds of fascists: fascists and anti-fascists." -- Ennio Faiano.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche.

Most anti-fascists are just as bad as the fascists. They are just as violent, close-minded, dogmatic, and stupid. A pox on both their houses...
6.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 17:12
6.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 17:12
Nov 29, 2018, 17:12
 
deqer wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 14:37:
I liked this comment: "It's incredibly 2018 that someone who in their Twitter handle explicitly identifies with a violent hate group is proudly sharing screenshots of *other* people saying ugly stuff in a successful attempt to get them shunned."
Opposing fascists doesn't mean you're a violent hater, it means you're a decent person.
5.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 16:48
5.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 16:48
Nov 29, 2018, 16:48
 
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?

The definition of "racist, sexist or anti-semitic" is constantly expanding.

"Sex is determined by chromosomes at conception." Congratulations, you're a sexist and a transphobe! Hell, you might even be against women's rights ("conception" is a word used by those crazy anti-abortion people, right?).

Carl Orff was a brilliant composer and his Carmena Burana one of the greatest pieces of music ever arranged. He was also the official composer of the Third Reich. Yet somehow, because he was associated with this great evil, I'm supposed to judge his cantatas for his personal opinions and beliefs. Fuck all of the intersectional, postmodern progressive bullshit that can't see the art for the artist. It's one thing to not endorse someone's opinions or beliefs. It's another to refuse to recognize their skills, talents, or art...

This comment was edited on Nov 29, 2018, 18:39.
4.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 16:27
4.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 16:27
Nov 29, 2018, 16:27
 
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?
There's one or two videos on YouTube of Jordan Peterson's answer to that.
3.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 16:24
NKD
3.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 16:24
Nov 29, 2018, 16:24
NKD
 
Flatline wrote on Nov 29, 2018, 16:09:
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?

It's an easy way to rack up a bunch of followers. Even if you don't believe what you're saying, spewing a bunch of edgy shit attracts children and manchildren like flies to cow shit.
Thou art an artless, greasy tallow-catch.
Avatar 43041
2.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 16:09
2.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 16:09
Nov 29, 2018, 16:09
 
What is it about being an online personality that necessitates that you act like a racist, sexist, or antisemitic?
1.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 29, 2018, 14:37
1.
Re: etc. Nov 29, 2018, 14:37
Nov 29, 2018, 14:37
 
I liked this comment: "It's incredibly 2018 that someone who in their Twitter handle explicitly identifies with a violent hate group is proudly sharing screenshots of *other* people saying ugly stuff in a successful attempt to get them shunned."
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