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Saturday Metaverse

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35. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 10, 2018, 19:48 Mr. Tact
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 10, 2018, 13:44:
Over the weekend heard an interview with a doctor that worked the Sandy Hook massacre ER who said we should have published all the crime scene photos of the dead kids, uncensored. She feels the gun control debate would have gone differently had we done that.
I honestly doubt it would have made a difference.
 
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34. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 10, 2018, 18:57 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 10, 2018, 13:44:
NKD wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 19:26:
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
well, there are equally lots of loony bins on the left and center as well. They should all be Banned as per precedent set.

Do you have specific examples of prominent left wing or centrist accounts on social media that break TOS without consequence?

OMG, there are SO MANY left wingers out there calling the Sandy Hook parents actors and fakes!

Oh, wait, no there aren't.

Over the weekend heard an interview with a doctor that worked the Sandy Hook massacre ER who said we should have published all the crime scene photos of the dead kids, uncensored. She feels the gun control debate would have gone differently had we done that.
Fake News Blood.

 
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unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality
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33. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 10, 2018, 13:44 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 19:26:
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
well, there are equally lots of loony bins on the left and center as well. They should all be Banned as per precedent set.

Do you have specific examples of prominent left wing or centrist accounts on social media that break TOS without consequence?

OMG, there are SO MANY left wingers out there calling the Sandy Hook parents actors and fakes!

Oh, wait, no there aren't.

Over the weekend heard an interview with a doctor that worked the Sandy Hook massacre ER who said we should have published all the crime scene photos of the dead kids, uncensored. She feels the gun control debate would have gone differently had we done that.
 
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32. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 22:49 raVen
 
Alex Jones' actions on these platforms with regards to Sandy Hook is an equivalent of falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater.
On that basis alone using those platforms while spewing the vile he did about child actors is an acceptable bannable offense.
He's made many more ridiculous claims about many other topics, that have led people to harass and cause pain to victims in other cases as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater
The First Amendment holding in Schenck was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot). The test in Brandenburg is the current Supreme Court jurisprudence on the ability of government to proscribe speech after that fact. Despite Schenck being limited, the phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has since come to be known as synonymous with an action that the speaker believes goes beyond the rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes are obvious.
see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio
 
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31. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 19:26 NKD
 
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
well, there are equally lots of loony bins on the left and center as well. They should all be Banned as per precedent set.

Do you have specific examples of prominent left wing or centrist accounts on social media that break TOS without consequence?
 
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I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you. Humans are too fucking stupid to listen.
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30. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 17:47 Quboid
 
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
what is plain to all is that the status quo is these rules are only enforced against so-called right-wing voices

I believe right-wing voices, including InfoWars, get preferential treatment because of all the whining they do. No one wanted the hassle of banning InfoWars until someone took the hit and others followed. I've seen no actual evidence that any ideology is being targeted.

I also want consistent enforcement of rules, which is why I'm glad InfoWars have finally got what they deserved.
 
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29. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 14:47 RedEye9
 
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
there are equally lots of loony bins on the left and center as well.
That also won't be true no matter how many times it is said.
 
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28. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 14:29 Sepharo
 
Red886 wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:22:
these rules are only enforced against so-called right-wing voices

That won't be true no matter how many times it is said.
 
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27. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 14:22 Red886
 
what that we want is a consistent enforcement of rules

so far, what is plain to all is that the status quo is these rules are only enforced against so-called right-wing voices

well, there are equally lots of loony bins on the left and center as well. They should all be Banned as per precedent set.

governments , NGOS and think tanks too for obvious lies. (ie on Syria, Russia etc, take your pick, there is always bs being hawked as truth.)
 
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26. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 14:08 eRe4s3r
 
Orogogus wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 14:01:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 12:10:
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

In Germany, court ruled just 2 days ago that TOS limiting freedom of speech is null and void, just FYI. You as facebook can not willy nilly remove opinions you don't like if it violates freedom of speech, which ranks higher than the house right you might have.

So yeah, house rules don't matter if they inhibit basic law.

I feel like there's context you're not presenting, because pretty much every message board has rules, and would therefore be illegal as you've presented it. Stay on topic? Illegal. No trolling or flamebait? Illegal. Don't insult other posters? Illegal. Don't argue with the moderators? Nope.

It seems to me that if freedom of speech were as sacrosanct as suggested here, then the EU's prized privacy laws wouldn't exist.

It's because the context is more complex and I may have shorthanded it ,p

Facebook deleted something that did not violate it's "rules" but was reported by other people
Person whose post got deleted sued
Person made a court find that the deletion was illegal and violated her freedom of speech and the ban violated the law

Facebook declared that the ban was according to it's TOS, the court ruled that it was NOT because parts of the TOS violated the law.

So if you ban people you need to make sure the reason is really the rules you declared and that your reasons are covered not just by house right. Banning people without a reason that matches up in court (especially if your are facebook) is a no-no. The court also declared part of the Facebook TOS invalid (That it can delete whatever for whatever reason)

You can check but it's obviously the German report
 
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25. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 14:01 Orogogus
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 12:10:
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

In Germany, court ruled just 2 days ago that TOS limiting freedom of speech is null and void, just FYI. You as facebook can not willy nilly remove opinions you don't like if it violates freedom of speech, which ranks higher than the house right you might have.

So yeah, house rules don't matter if they inhibit basic law.

I feel like there's context you're not presenting, because pretty much every message board has rules, and would therefore be illegal as you've presented it. Stay on topic? Illegal. No trolling or flamebait? Illegal. Don't insult other posters? Illegal. Don't argue with the moderators? Nope.

It seems to me that if freedom of speech were as sacrosanct as suggested here, then the EU's prized privacy laws wouldn't exist.
 
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24. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 13:47 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 12:32:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 12:10:
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

In Germany, court ruled just 2 days ago that TOS limiting freedom of speech is null and void, just FYI. You as facebook can not willy nilly remove opinions you don't like if it violates freedom of speech, which ranks higher than the house right you might have.

So yeah, house rules don't matter if they inhibit basic law.
Says the country that has Volksverhetzung laws.

Which is part of the basic law (Grundgesetz) and was written by.. THE USA Volksverhetzung is and remains illegal because basic law #1 is violated by it. Alex Jones could relatively easy be put behind bars here.

In many ways the USA was better at doing things post WW2 in Germany than in the actual USA when it comes to law. And the basic law can always limit your freedom of speech. A TOS however can not.
 
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23. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 12:32 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 12:10:
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

In Germany, court ruled just 2 days ago that TOS limiting freedom of speech is null and void, just FYI. You as facebook can not willy nilly remove opinions you don't like if it violates freedom of speech, which ranks higher than the house right you might have.

So yeah, house rules don't matter if they inhibit basic law.
Says the country that has Volksverhetzung laws.
 
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The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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22. Re: Morning Patches Sep 9, 2018, 12:26 TheBigVlad
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

Yea some of the arguments I'm reading are very bizarre. Someone suggested that Twitter should be treated as a public utility? What in the hell?

Pornography is perfectly legal, yet pornographic content is not allowed on YouTube. I don't hear a lot of complaints about that. Is restricting porn on YouTube violating your free speech too? Alex Jones was not banned from the entirety of the internet. He still has his website which he's free to operate as he wishes (within the confines of the law). Even if you're a big Alex Jones fan, this should be a total nothingburger.
 
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21. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 12:10 eRe4s3r
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 08:35:
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?

In Germany, court ruled just 2 days ago that TOS limiting freedom of speech is null and void, just FYI. You as facebook can not willy nilly remove opinions you don't like if it violates freedom of speech, which ranks higher than the house right you might have.

So yeah, house rules don't matter if they inhibit basic law.
 
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20. Re: Apple permanently removes Alex Jones' InfoWars app from App Store Sep 9, 2018, 10:58 NicklePop
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 16:01:
El Pit wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 14:28:
But... but... what about the freedom to lie?!
What about it? Being used every day by media and politicians, not only on their own platforms, but also on these very social media who banned Jones. But they havent been banned, even though they helped start unjustified and useless wars that killed millions of people.
The hypocrisy is not measurable anymore, and at the same time exposes their true agenda.
A new age of fascism.

Wow ... logic and reason on Blues(D)news?
 
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19. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 08:35 Beamer
 
I just don't get these arguments. Businesses and services have rules/terms of service. When you violate them, you are penalized. When you continue violating them, you are banned.

Bluesnews has terms of service. Blue has banned people before. Is that wrong? Infowars has Terms of Service. Those terms state very clearly that:

You will not post anything libelous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal.
You will not make threats to other users or people not associated with the site.
If you violate these rules, your posts and/or user name will be deleted.
Remember: you are a guest here. It is not censorship if you violate the rules and your post is deleted. All civilizations have rules and if you violate them you can expect to be ostracized from the tribe.

I don't get why everyone here thinks Twitter and Apple can't enforce their terms of service, yet other people can. Alex Jones was on his TV show Friday screaming that the violent revolution would start on 10/6 and people needed to prepare themselves. Is that not grounds for being kicked the hell off of these platforms, even if endlessly harassing Sandy Hook parents isn't? Or riling up people so much against a random pizza joint that a guy shows up with a gun?
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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18. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 08:34 Mr. Tact
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 00:24:
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 23:03:
shiho wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 22:08:
Trump does not fall into a single political stereotype, and he will drag these megacorporations into government regulation, kicking and screaming. Welcome to the public utilities of the 21st century.
That has to be one of the most hilarious things I have ever read.
Then you either must be very young or simply not looking at this objectively. Being on the mainstream side doesnt make you right. Quite the contrary in times like these. You should have paid more attention in history class, be it the history of fascism or much sooner... Divide and conquer... Americans arent immune to shit like it happened in Europe and Russia.
What the hell are you talking about? He's claiming Trump is going to drag corporations into regulation when we have already watched the Trump administration strip away regulations. I'm not the one who isn't paying attention. Contrary to what the watchers of Fox News might believe, truth is truth. Now if you want to talk about how polarized the country is, great. But that subject is separate from what I was addressing.
 
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17. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 07:56 warmbluelasers
 
NKD wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 04:28:
Yeah the contradiction there is pretty weird.

It seems weird until you remember that the "right" is centered around doing the bidding of selfish tycoons. Whatever the buzzword policy of the hour is, whatever parroted nonsense illogic is spouted to support it, it's only to increase the profits and the power of their tycoon patrons.
 
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16. Re: Saturday Metaverse Sep 9, 2018, 04:28 NKD
 
Orogogus wrote on Sep 9, 2018, 04:01:

As Nucas said, though, it's bizarre that the Alex Jones crowd in general believes that Facebook and Google are monopolies that need to be treated as public utilities, while the ISPs aren't. How does that make any sense?

Yeah the contradiction there is pretty weird.

Regulating ISPs so that they can't censor, throttle, or otherwise unfairly fuck with you = Bad.

Regulating Social Media companies so that they can't censor, throttle, or otherwise unfairly fuck with you = Good.

It's like every Republican in the country has suddenly developed a split personality where they are able to toggle back and forth between authoritarian and libertarian ideas at will without experiencing a single contradictory thought.

They want small government, until they need someone they don't like to be stepped on, then they want the governments help.

They don't want the government giving taxpayer funded handouts, until they need the handouts themselves.

They don't want to be discriminated against for their religious beliefs, but they want to be able to use those beliefs to discriminate against others.
 
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I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you. Humans are too fucking stupid to listen.
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