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Out of the Blue

I went back to that Windows Vista laptop I recently mentioned was refusing to properly update through Windows Update. I've done two reinstalls, and, after getting over the shock of the bundled bloatware this reinstalls (Napster?!), I've found it stops updating at the same point every time. It downloads and installs hundreds of patches, and then stops once the "improved" version of Windows Update tries to install. I now have a Windows Vista laptop that hangs on updating, and a Windows 7 desktop in the same foundering boat. As I've alluded to before, I'm starting to think my only way out of this is to upgrade to Windows 10, but even as I soften to that as a general concept, it is really irritating to feel like I don't really have a choice in the matter.

R.I.P.: Obituary: Square Enix America and Europe COO Mike Sherlock.

Irritable Links: Thanks Ant.
Play: Turbo Dismounting.
Stories: Plastic Surgery For Men - Why Butt And Pec Implants Are On The Rise.
Virginia man puts up electric fence near a school bus stop to keep kids off his lawn.
Science: Why Probiotics May Not Always Help, And Could Actually Do Harm.
Media: Justin Roiland's VO Tips.
Typhoon Jebi hits Osaka, Japan 9.4.18.
Ripley is not a fan of your drum samples.
Follow-up: Academy backpedals on Popular Oscar idea, realizing it needs workshopping.
The Funnies: Adult Children.

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29 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 14, 2018, 22:48 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 14, 2018, 02:56:
Geekfight! Fight

Best fight, maybe aside from mudfights.
 
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 14, 2018, 02:56 jdreyer
 
Geekfight! Fight  
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2018, 19:21 RedEye9
 

Not trying to start a pissing match over which brand of coffee is the best, but the guy who made the linux game video responded to my linking of burritos post.

QUOTE=BloodyIron
Okay, so my responses to the points raised...

I have literally upwards of 20 to 30 Ubuntu systems (Desktop and Server) that update grub regularly with new Linux Kernel versions coming down. This is 18.04, 17.10, 17.04, 16.10, 16.04, and on and on as far back as 14.04 and onwards. I honestly don't remember the last time a Linux Kernel update broke grub on _ANY_ of them. I also have not observed such updates breaking GRUB for any of my family members either, all of which run Ubuntu, that includes my Dad, Step-Dad, Mom, and SO. So the statement that Grub breaks regularly in Ubuntu, I would argue is unfounded. While it is an important thing to keep in mind if it did fuck up, I just don't see it, and haven't seen it broken in over 5 years and many, many updates, to many systems, in that time.
In regards to the nVidia driver, the user clearly ignores the "Additional Drivers" component of the "Software Update" GUI tool, which _actually_ can deliver the proprietary nVidia drivers through a convenient, and reliable, GUI method. The method he cites for Ubuntu is _just one_ way you can install the drivers. I myself do get my nVidia drivers through my PPA, but that's because I can get newer versions than mainline, which typically have fixes nVidia rolls out the very same week they're available on nVidia's own website. I don't see how exactly that's a problem... In-fact, the PPA gives you the ability to limit the version you receive to specific major versions, in-case you have a very particular reason to "clamp" to specific major versions (these things happen). Again, not sure why this is a "problem". You have a GUI, convenient, method, a PPA/CLI method for more control, and other options too... in Ubuntu. Also, the 39x versions are not marked as Beta, they are marked as Release, last I checked.
I don't understand why people fixate on minor version updates to the Linux kernel. In my gaming testing thus-far, I have seen _ZERO_ gaming-centric reason to care about whether you're running 4.15 vs 4.18. The "argument" made here is simply that just because it is "hard" to upgrade from 4.15 to 4.18 on Ubuntu 18.04, it must be shit (paraphrasing of course). Well, I don't buy that crap, because I don't see why we need to rush to the latest version of the Linux kernel every fucking time it comes out. I'm okay with being a little bit behind, in the OFF CHANCE that some new issue comes up. I do know that Linus Torvalds is a hard-ass about regression (and kudos to him for that), but we're still humans writing software. You'll get the newer versions in the next release of Ubuntu that'll come out 6 months later, and fuck if you REALLLLYYYY need that new version, you're probably the kind of person who can figure out how to do that on Ubuntu. But if you're not the person to know why you ABSOLUTELY MUST have the latest version, then you probably won't give a crap about how "hard" it is on Ubuntu. Also, Realtek NICs are not "funky" hardware, they've worked on Linux for many many many years now...
You can literally install STEAM from the "Software Center" in Ubuntu. You DO NOT need to use the commandline to install STEAM. It is simply an OPTION.

After reading that article, I seriously doubt that person actually ever even used Ubuntu, let alone used it for extended periods of time. My response is not a knock on Manjaro, because honestly, I don't know how that distro is setup either.

To be clear, I'm not angry at you for asking me about this. I'm frustrated because this is bullshit FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) which is completely unfounded in reality, that is going to taint people's perception of Ubuntu in a way that simply is false and misleading. I don't like it and to me, it's not acceptable.

I hope the above info is helpful in some way. To anyone reading this, YOU choose what distro you want, TRY IT OUT before you blindly accept what myself, or anyone else, is saying.

 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 8, 2018, 22:46 Burrito of Peace
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 01:20:
Sounds pretty convincing to me. Hell, I'm almost tempted to try Manjaro. If ever I decide to take the Linux plunge, I'll be sure to ask you about it first, Burrito.

Definitely give it a shot. The installer is super straightforward (at least in my opinion) and you have a plethora of Desktop Environments to choose from so you will very likely find one that suits your workflow. Moreover, you don't really need to reinstall the OS if you want to try a different Desktop Environment. You can have several living side by side happily. You just select which one you want to use at the login screen.

I'll also be more than happy to answer any questions you might have to the best of my ability.

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 15:53:
So you're saying if Pennywise and John Wayne Gacy had a child it would be Ubuntu.
Your points about a newb and command line vs gui are correct, and that is one of the reasons Linux has failed to take over the desktop.
Thank you very much for that write up. I know doing stuff like that takes time. I copied it into my notes and am sure it will hope other folks who want to penquin.

Well, I really like Pennywise. So Killer Klowns from Outer Space and John Wayne Gacy.

I agree with why Linux has failed to capture the home desktop. However, there are several superb distros that have made significant and non-trivial strides in making it far more approachable for new users.

You are quite welcome. I want people to embrace the penguin and, more importantly, I want people to have fun and enjoy it. I want them to discover and have the joy of an OS that is ridiculously fast and just gets the Hell out of their way so they can do their tasks. I want them to understand that there are millions of people who started with Linux just like they are now and evolved their skills to help continue improving Linux. That they did so to help new users have a better experience today. I want people to learn that you can have and use an OS that doesn't treat you like the product and respects your privacy, freedom, and liberty.

However, I always try to be honest with people. Steam Play is a really, really big deal and it has helped leap frog gaming on Linux by a very large margin. That being said, it's not quite there yet. While many titles work without issue at all, there are still some that don't. That will change in the future I am quite sure but I want people whom are going in to Linux right now to be fully aware of that.

Obviously, I am very passionate about Linux and I truly believe in it. I use it daily at work and at home. If anyone else has questions, feel free to hit me up if you see me post in a thread. If the problem or question is a bit deeper than what is probably appropriate for a thread, I'll be happy to supply you with my email address and Wire name so we can continue talking there. Not every Linux user is a trilby wearing neckbeard with delusions of elitism. Some of us really want to introduce people to the same happiness we enjoy on our machines.
 
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 8, 2018, 15:53 RedEye9
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 23:59:
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 19:23:
Are they better or worse than Pennywise?

Worse than Pennywise but, if you want me to get technical, I shall.

got technical
So you're saying if Pennywise and John Wayne Gacy had a child it would be Ubuntu.
Your points about a newb and command line vs gui are correct, and that is one of the reasons Linux has failed to take over the desktop.
Thank you very much for that write up. I know doing stuff like that takes time. I copied it into my notes and am sure it will hope other folks who want to penquin.
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 8, 2018, 14:57 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 8, 2018, 01:32:
A "super-pod" of dolphins off the Monterey Coast: Awesome.

Sweet
 
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 8, 2018, 01:32 Mr. Tact
 
A "super-pod" of dolphins off the Monterey Coast: Awesome.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 8, 2018, 01:20 Mr. Tact
 
Sounds pretty convincing to me. Hell, I'm almost tempted to try Manjaro. If ever I decide to take the Linux plunge, I'll be sure to ask you about it first, Burrito.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 23:59 Burrito of Peace
 
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 19:23:
You gotta do better than saying the devs are clowns. Clown
Are they better or worse than Pennywise?
Ubuntu install and gaming looks straight forward https://youtu.be/WsUZ0LYyz54?t=421

Worse than Pennywise but, if you want me to get technical, I shall.

Canonical has a really nasty, ugly habit of backporting packages that were never meant to be backported just so Canonical can claim that they are "stable". However, user reports often show that said backports are anything but stable. For example, Ubuntu still has issues with properly updating GRUB (in the rare times they bother to update the kernel* past point releases of the shipped kernel tied to the version you have installed) whereas other major distros such as Fedora and Manjaro have that sorted. Why that is a big deal is if GRUB gets fucked up, your system no longer boots. Sure, you can boot to a live USB, chroot in to the system, fix it, and reboot but that is way, way beyond the scope of what I expect first and second tier users to be familiar or comfortable with doing.

Let's take a look at the biggest issue still facing the Linux desktop: video drivers. In specific, Nvidia proprietary drivers. Here's how you install those drivers on Ubuntu. In contrast, here's how you do it on Manjaro: Click on Manjaro Settings Manager, then Hardware Configuration, and then click "Auto Install Proprietary Driver". After that, reboot, and you're done. Moreover, you actually get the lastest 39X version (depending on your video card) instead of the moribund 340X version. Although you can technically get the 39X version on Ubuntu, they're marked "Beta" which will very likely intimidate first time users.

Then we move on to the kernel itself. Ubuntu 18.04 ships with kernel version 4.15 which they market as "LTS". However, 4.14 is the actual LTS kernel. The latest kernel is 4.18 and runs really well on any 64bit machine produced in the last decade. But, you can run 4.18 on Ubuntu. You can find out how to do that here in only five steps, four of which are in the terminal. Again, I'll use Manjaro for contrast. On Manjaro, you go to Manjaro Settings Manager, then Kernel, and click "Install" next to the kernel version you want to install. That's it. Three fucking steps, all in a GUI that won't terrorize a new user. Better yet, if you have funky hardware (like say Realtek NICs), it will auto-install the kernel module for that, if available, so that your funky hardware always works no matter how frequently you update the kernel or never reinstall the OS and just go with continuous updates.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking love Terminal but "go do this in Terminal" is never an acceptable solution for a new or low-skill user who is just getting used to an entirely new operating system.

But let's say you want to install Steam. Well, here's how you do it for Ubuntu 18.04. Again, on Manjaro, I literally hit the Super (Windows) key, hit up "Add/Remove Software", type in "Steam", select it, and install. It grabs all the packages needed, including the multilib 32 bit versions necessary, and makes it all work.

The above alone just covers the actual function of the OS, the installation of drivers, and the installation of a download client to get the basic framework in place to begin gaming.

So I repeat. Fuck Ubuntu and fuck the Canonical clowns. Start with Linux the easy way and don't be frustrated or intimidated when literally everything a new user will want to do is covered in an easy to use and navigate GUI.
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 21:29 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 12:57:
Agent.X7 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 12:50:
PHJF wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 12:06:
Virginia man puts up electric fence near a school bus stop to keep kids off his lawn.

You know I was actually empathetic toward the man until I saw his photo. What a real American hero.

You know how dickish that sounds, right?
I'm confused by what phjf means. Is he referencing the mans looks as not be being "X" enough or is he referring to what looks like a semi auto in the gentleman's pocket.

Install security camera's, put the e-fence back up and live stream this shit for the intarweb to watch.

In the man's defense, those little kids can be pretty scary. I'd be packing too.
 
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 21:21 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 11:34:
SlimRam wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 11:27:
I had a similar problem to this in trying to update to Windows 10. I have no idea if this is relevant to your current situation but I'll try to share what happened with you. I had an older HP machine that came with an already partitioned hard drive that had proprietary HP software installed on it.

Good point, maybe delete all partitions and nuke that drive.
Then install just pure clean windows w/out the added vendor hoopla.
I'm sure someone has a vista cd laying around somewhere.
I think Darks mentioned he has extra keys.
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 19:23 RedEye9
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 19:04:
If one is contemplating Linux, don't use fucking Ubuntu. Canonical (the developers behind Ubuntu) are fucking clowns.
There's a bazillion flavors of Linux and you're recommending not to use one of the more popular distros.
You gotta do better than saying the devs are clowns. Clown
Are they better or worse than Pennywise?
Ubuntu install and gaming looks straight forward https://youtu.be/WsUZ0LYyz54?t=421
 
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17. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 19:04 Burrito of Peace
 
If one is contemplating Linux, don't use fucking Ubuntu. Canonical (the developers behind Ubuntu) are fucking clowns. Look at something like Manjaro with the Cinnamon desktop for ease of use (for users coming from Windows) which is both kept fresh with new package versions and has a driver installer for easy driver installs (especially if you have an Nvidia GPU).  
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 16:04 RedEye9
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 15:45:
There's like, no difference in those before and after shots.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Go big or go home.
_____________________________________________________________

LINUX is an excellent recommendation for old hardware.
There are even some distros recommended for underpowered setups.
https://fossbytes.com/best-lightweight-linux-distros/
 
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 15:46 eRe4s3r
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 15:45:
There's like, no difference in those before and after shots.

Sure there is, the left looks natural and the right like a freak of nature. (Bicycle legs we call them)
 
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 15:45 MisterBenn
 
I was going to recommend Linux too, it's awesome on a second computer if you don't need specific Windows applications. Ubuntu is the obvious choice but I've been extremely happy with Solus OS the past year.  
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 15:45 Beamer
 
There's like, no difference in those before and after shots.  
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 15:41 Cutter
 
I fully admit I've considered plastic surgery. I get tired of lugging this Anaconda around and a penis reduction might just be what I need.

Hi-o!

Jester
 
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"If you promote conformity, don't be surprised if that's what you get." - Ken Robinson
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 14:59 DangerDog
 
Why not take the plunge into the world of linux for your laptop(s), it's not like you're going to do any gaming on them.  
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10. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 7, 2018, 12:57 RedEye9
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 12:50:
PHJF wrote on Sep 7, 2018, 12:06:
Virginia man puts up electric fence near a school bus stop to keep kids off his lawn.

You know I was actually empathetic toward the man until I saw his photo. What a real American hero.

You know how dickish that sounds, right?
I'm confused by what phjf means. Is he referencing the mans looks as not be being "X" enough or is he referring to what looks like a semi auto in the gentleman's pocket.

Install security camera's, put the e-fence back up and live stream this shit for the intarweb to watch.

 
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