Star Citizen Scraps CitizenCon Keynote Stream Fee

Star Citizen backers are generally pretty understanding about Cloud Imperium Gaming's ongoing crowdfunding efforts, and many of them own hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of virtual ships for CIG's upcoming space game(s). An effort to raise more funds for CitizenCon has met with outrage, however, as fans balked at an effort to charge to watch a livestream of the keynote for the convention. After considerable backlash on Reddit, the developer has relented and made the stream free once again (thanks theyarecomingforyou). Chris Roberts' post about all this outlines initial reasoning that sounds similar to what's happened with development of the game itself, saying more money was sought because the scope of the convention has expanded beyond their initial plans:
This year's CitizenCon is much bigger than last years, with two separate stages and tracks. We did this because we felt the format we tested last year was a success and because of this we wanted to expand it to allow more people to attend and provide more opportunities to hear from and interact with the devs.

With a venue and planned attendance three times the CitizenCon in Frankfurt, with more panels (so more devs needing to travel) , more food and drink options for everyone the proposed budget for this year's CitizenCon was almost double last years. And this was without any video coverage, let alone streaming of the second stage, and a plan to just stream the opening keynote from the main stage.

Yes, you read that right, the original plan didn't have any plan for streaming anything beyond the opening keynote. There was not even video archiving of the second stage due the additional costs of getting a second video crew for that stage. Even then there was some debate as to whether it was truly worth it to spend a chunk of change to stream the opening keynote for 90 minutes when we're always in a foot race to compress it as a high-quality video and post to YouTube as quickly as possible after the demo so people can enjoy a HD Video as opposed to a crappy re-post of a Twitch Stream.
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Re: Star Citizen Scraps CitizenCon Keynote Stream Fee
Sep 2, 2018, 07:56
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Re: Star Citizen Scraps CitizenCon Keynote Stream Fee Sep 2, 2018, 07:56
Sep 2, 2018, 07:56
 
I don't even know where to begin. But since you are being uncharacteristically civil - for once - I'll indulge.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
You predicted that CIG would collapse and the game would go unfinished... it hasn't. You were wrong. Chris Roberts has stated that if funding were to drop that staffing would be scaled back to complete the project. And as much as you criticise him there's one thing we can all agree - for better or for worse he is extremely good at raising funds for the game. The game has been raising $35m per year from backers and that's not counting deals with companies like AMD and Intel. Even if you dispute the figures being put out there's no way CIG could have lasted this long given the number of developers employed.

Yes, those were predictions based on what sources (who would know) stated. They also stated that project could never been completed as pitched. Precisely what I stated in July 2015. They also stated that the public dev schedule was bogus. The one I saw took it well beyond 2021. And that was back when CIG was lying that the game would be completed in 2015. Now have since seen that they were right. Even the current dev schedule doesn't even go beyond 2019 at even 25% complete.

I have written extensively about this funding issue, and I'm not going to repeat them. The gist of it is that when a company has money to last a quarter, and the accountant doesn't know where additional money is coming from, you go get a loan, investors etc. When you fail to raise money, you go out of business. That's how that works.

CIG continued to raise money one year after they claimed the two games ($65M raised) would be completed.

We also know 1) they borrowed money in the UK 2) as per the Dec 2017 financials F42-UK group was INSOLVENT 3) they continued to raise money by all means necessary because without doing so the project - as sources had stated, and which we now know to be FACT - would have COLLAPSED in an UNFINISHED state.

If you think deals with AMD, Intel, Saitek etc are money paid up front, rather than in-kind promotions (in some cases, a percentage of amounts based on promo units sold), then you really don't know how that works. I do - because over the years most of us have done them too.

Of course it's a fact that they haven't collapsed in terms of funding because they kept finding ways to raise money - ABOVE AND BEYOND - what they stated they would need ($65M) to complete the game they over-scoped.

We have ZERO evidence that the funding numbers are accurate. So they can claim $35M each year for as long as they like. Right to the very end. NONE of that is material to the fact that they haven't even finished 20% of what they promised.

That they keep raising money doesn't matter. That's how scams work. Until they stop working. What matters is that at $192M, they still haven't completed a SINGLE game, for a project they claimed would be completed at $65M. And if they had money in reserves, why do they need to keep raising money? Mostly by selling futures (JPEG content)? And if they were making enough money selling game packages, why would they need to do that?

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
It's one thing to be sceptical about the project and highlight legitimate concerns, it's another to actively seek to undermine and spread lies and propaganda in an attempt to cause it to collapse. The game as it stands today has little replayability, poor performance, netcode issues, etc. But CIG has shown off a lot of upcoming content and it has improved a lot over the years, with big milestones in the next six months or so.

I always chuckle when I see you guys make this claim that we're trying to undermine the game, we're haters etc. It's almost as if you all believe that in all of gaming, we have to treat Star Citizen with special kid gloves. We don't. We don't "try to undermine" and/or "hate" it more than any other train-wreck in gaming. And that you think that it's us, not Chris Roberts, who is responsible for the success or failure of the project, just shows how delusional you guys really are. And THAT is why we continue to lol at you guys and the project. Incessantly.

Nobody CARES about content they have shown that's "coming" because most of it neither amounts to the games promised, nor have they materialized in any way, shape or form. It's hilarious that when we look at the dev schedule today, and all the crap they claimed were coming - since back in 2016 - that they keep either walking them back, or removing them completely. You do recall that "The worm was not a joke", right?

Chris has been LYING repeatedly and for the purpose of a SINGLE goal: to keep raising money from gullible fools because he over-reached, found a way to monetize scope creep, and keeps making promises to build a game that he knows fully well CANNOT be made as pitched. He knows it. The people who have left, know it. The people who are there, know it. And we who aren't delusional, know it.

The game has more issues than performance. In it's current form - 7 yrs later - it's basically a glorified tech demo, no different from anything Future Mark would create to showcase and test video cards. Except SC is interactive. In fact, just this latest free fly weekend, there isn't a SINGLE positive consensus about the game by those who dared to try it. Yeah, it's Alpha - but this is gaming, and that excuse can only go so far. Especially when 7 yrs + $192M of other people's money this is all there is to show for it.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
There's plenty we can agree on. CIG's priority of long-term goals and fundraising over the playable state of the game has left the current playable game a buggy tech demo, which is at risk of collapse if funding stops (though we differ on how much of a risk that is). CIG has consistently produced wildly over-optimistic / deliberately misleading schedules to avoid criticism of delays. CIG has been aggressive in fundraising, seeking to devalue existing backers in pursuit of new money (see: Warbond sales, CitizenCon paywall, land claims, etc). CIG often withholds progress of the game to maximise sales for events like GamesCom and CitizenCon, especially this year - supposedly 3.3 is due out in October and yet we haven't seen much at all of the new planet Hurston and it's landing location Lorville.

It's funny that it's only now that you and some of those loons on Reddit are saying things like this. Things that most of us have been saying for YEARS, but were attacked because we didn't "believe".

And if you guys haven't figured out yet that the ONLY way that they can keep raising money is by lying and monetizing scope creep, then by all means, please keep giving him money because for us, the end would be that much more hilarious.

It's curious that since 2017, we still haven't seen ANYTHING about the supposed procedural city they made a big deal of hype from - then raised a lot of money. What about SQ42? Or its schedule? Try me, my list is bigger, longer than yours, and well maintained. You guys can go ahead and pick and choose what you want to keep track of, but we have the bigger picture because we have NOTHING at stake and have NO incentive to pick and choose which part of the train wreck to highlight.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
That lawsuit is a shitshow. Crytek sought to deliberately mislead the court and made some outrageous claims, some of which were struck down by the Motion to Dismiss.

It's sad that you "believers" are deliberately making up lies about this, while accusing us of doing that.

The judge didn't regard the lawsuit as a "shit-show" or like such lawsuits, she would have dismissed it entirely based on the CIG filings.

Crytek didn't "mislead" the court, or the judge, who is a Federal judge and not a complete moron on the Internet, would have not only dismissed they claims, but also admonished them in her responses. You know, just like how ALL judges do when faced with bs from lawyers. But she didn't.

And that "some of which were struck down" is a disingenuous take on her MtD ruling. I am not going to type up everything here again, you should read my article on that in which, using actual FACTS from the case and the law, I outlined precisely what survived and why.

Basically, there were only 2 (out of SIX) items that she didn't agree with. And in one of them, she pointed out to Crytek the alternative section which had stronger and more plausible claims.

1) Punitive damages wasn't material to their claim, and had nothing to do with it. It was about how much money they would get IF they won the case. Since corps can't claim that sort of damages, she killed it, while leaving the even more damaging version of their monetary claim.

It's like being arrested for burglary, then the cops search and find a dead body in the same area. Now you have a much bigger problem with a murder charge.

2) The wording of the "exclusive" (2.1.2) right to use CryEngine was ambiguous. The judge cited case law which pointed it out. Yes, it shocked most of us who are not lawyers. But then, though she didn't even have to, the judge then pointed out in her OWN notes the part (2.4) of the contract which they should be claiming and which is more applicable and even more damaging.

And Crytek went for it by immediately filing an amendment based on that. Though they could have filed a dissent based on the judge's ruling, they didn't. They now had a stronger and even more damaging cause of action. And if the judge noticed that, being that it's something she KNOWS she would have to later rule on, she wouldn't have pointed it. That she did, says a LOT about the fact that it's now one hassle that CIG has to deal with and they already know how the judge feels about it.

It's like being up on charges for jaywalking, but because your attorney is Rudy Giuliani, you end up with a manslaughter conviction.

Please, go ahead and show me the "outrageous claims" which somehow magically made it past a FEDERAL JUDGE.

So, that you guys are seeking to minimize the impact of this lawsuit, while twisting it because, well, that's what you guys do, is so hilarious that when we get to the nitty gritty, we're going to be laughing our asses off at you guys, while pointing to posts like this.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
CIG still has the ability to file a further Motion to Dismiss to address Crytek's updated claims in the Second Amended Complaint.

They could try because that's how lawsuits work. So I fail to see your point. If you're saying that they're going to somehow get 2.4 - which the judge herself pointed out, and which NEITHER side had even contested before her notes were public - thrown out in a new MtD, I don't even know if I should start laughing now, or just save it for later after they try and fail.

FYI, they have until end of next week to file any such motion.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
Many of the claims that do get through that won't stand up to scrutiny in court and Crytek knows that. It's just trying to throw everything in to see what gets through.

That's YOUR opinion. The judge, who knows more than you and I, obviously disagrees or the claims wouldn't have made it past a MtD; which btw, motions to dismiss are designed to weed out bs lawsuit claims.

It is clear that you have NO idea how the law actually works, but that's not stopping you from twisting the narrative and skewing it toward CIG because well, you have no choice.

I remember a few years back when we were all arguing the Epic v Silicon Knights lawsuit. Look how THAT turned out. And Epic had even less damaging claims than Crytek.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 2, 2018, 06:34:
CIG doesn't need to lie about figures because the community is constantly willing to buy new ships and content. However, if CIG is lying about funding then I'm all for exposing that.

And you would know either way, how? I can't WAIT to hear this.

Yes, CIG is totally going to lie about everything, but not about money. No, not at all. Money, the #1 root of all evil and the primary reason that people lie, cheat, steal, kill. But CIG, run by execs who have a HISTORY of specifically behavior geared toward lying, cheating and stealing, is completely above that. God, I can't even stop laughing. Thanks for the Sun morning lols.

This comment was edited on Sep 2, 2018, 12:01.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
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