jdreyer wrote on Aug 27, 2018, 03:28:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 26, 2018, 22:17:

jdreyer wrote on Aug 26, 2018, 22:02:

Apostle wrote on Aug 26, 2018, 21:39:

jdreyer wrote on Aug 26, 2018, 19:36:
Also, the solution is glaringly obvious: gun control.

Prohibition works. That's why there are no drugs or prostitutes in America.

Works for guns. Look at Europe and East Asia. I've already provided links and stats.

The problem is one of false equivalency. Neither Asia nor Europe started their countries or developed their countries where personal arms ownership were enshrined in law. At this point, there are so many long guns, pistols, and revolvers in the wild that any sort of prohibition would be equivalent to closing the door to the barn not only after the horses had all left but also after it had burned to the ground.

Moreover, you would need to repeal the Second Amendment which at this point would be a rather quixotic affair. That doesn't even include the long drawn out process of actually trying to collect those firearms out in the wild which would more than likely bring up a lawsuit, or lawsuits, based on the 4th Amendment which would need to wend its way all the way up to the Supreme Court. Should that somehow get struck down, you can bet someone is going to file a lawsuit based on the 9th Amendment and that is going to be a much trickier case to win in favor of a new Prohibition.

But, let's say that the stars all aligned in your favor and a new Prohibition is enacted and enforced. First, you're not going to get even a majority of the firearms in the wild because private sales are not held to the same registration standards as a store. Then you have to deal with the enormous amounts of CNC machines out there because they can be used to create new firearms, let alone 3D printers which is yet another cornucopia of either parts or straight up fully complete units.

It's just flatout not going to work in any real sense in a country founded upon the idea that a person has the right to own a firearm without onerous government intervention and the billions of dollars from SIGs, PACs, and private donations that have and will continue to go in to upholding that right.

Not saying it won't be hard. But we're pretty much the only industrialized nation that hasn't figured this out yet. Other countries have, including ones with traditionally high gun ownership like Australia, Canada, and Switzerland. We've tackled difficult issues before as a nation. The rights of women and minorities have drastically improved over the past several decades as attitudes and laws have changed. Ditto toward smoking. Ditto toward cannabis use.
And attitudes toward gays and gay marriage have swung 180 degrees in less than a decade. Massive change can happen quickly with the right arguments and exposure.

It's already starting to happen with RE to guns: look at how the NRA is losing corporate sponsors and finding itself more isolated.

It's not that it won't be hard, it is that it is quite literally impossible from both a legal and manufacturing standpoint.

You keep bringing up other countries as examples while not taking in to account the very real and substantial differences in culture. We, as a culture, have firearms deeply engrained within it. The possession and ownership of it is so important to us that we enshrined it within the very documents that founded this country. We have roughly 250 years of established culture and legal precedence putting firearms in the hands and homes of anyone who wants them, provided they aren't part of a small group serving as a restricted class.

You're not going to magically get rid of that in one, two, or even three generations. You would need to significantly shift the bedrock of the United States to make that happen and that isn't going to happen. Moreover, you'll have people like me who will fight you tooth and nail to the grave to prevent a new Prohibition because firearms are a useful tool in my way of life. A way of life that would be significantly and negatively impacted by that very Prohibition.

Let's not forget that most of the US is rural and the life that people lead in a city is radically different than the life a person who lives on a ranch, farm, or out in a rural area lives. How would you like me to keep the coyotes away from my cattle, especially my calves? Rocks and harsh language? What about the javalina that will quite literally break down fences to get to our gardens (actual produce bearing gardens)? Catch and release? Are you going to buy cages and a means of transporting them to some far off location at no cost to me? What about the plethora of copperheads and occasional cottonmouth we see annually? I've literally had to shoot copperheads on my back porch with snakeshot over the years for the safety of my family and of my pets.

While I wholeheartedly agree that mass shootings are tragic and unjust, a blanket statement of "just ban the guns" is impractical and wholly inappropriate "solution" to the wider population across the US.