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On Star Citizen Economics

A new Letter from the Chairman on the Roberts Space Industries has the latest on Star Citizen and Squadron 42, the pair of games in the works as part of Cloud Imperium Games' record-breaking crowdfunding effort. Responding to controversy sparked by changes to limits on spacebux stockpiles, Chris Roberts explains that Star Citizen is not play to win, because all items should be available through gameplay, not to mention this is not actually a game you can win, saying, "This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isnít a normal game. Itís a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people." Here's more:

There are two types of resource players have that they can contribute to Star Citizen to make it better: time and money. A player that has lots of time but only backed for the basic game helps out by playing the game, giving feedback, and assisting new players. On the flip side, if a player has a family and a demanding job and only has four hours to game a week but wants to spend some money to shortcut the time investment they would need to purchase a new ship, whatís wrong with that? They are helping fund the ongoing development and running costs of the game, which benefits everyone. The exact same ship can be earned through pure gameplay without having to spend any money and the backer that has plenty of time is likely to be better at dogfighting and FPS gameplay after playing more hours to earn the ship. I donít want to penalize either type of backer; I want them both to have fun. People should not feel disadvantaged because they donít have time, nor should they feel disadvantaged if they donít have money. I want our tent to be large and encompass all types of players with varied skill sets, time, and money.

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49. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 6, 2018, 16:54 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 16:24:
Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 07:35:
loomy wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 06:51:
what he doesn't mention this time is that most of the game will be single player against npcs, so nothing anybody else buys matters because you'll never have to deal with them, just like in NMS
Assuming the game is ever launched in a meaningful way, it will be interesting to see where it lands between EO and NMS as far as interaction between other players...

Yeah, it took EO a good decade to figure out how to handle 1000 person instances.

So the solution is easy. Poach those devs.
 
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 ó Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
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48. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 6, 2018, 16:24 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 07:35:
loomy wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 06:51:
what he doesn't mention this time is that most of the game will be single player against npcs, so nothing anybody else buys matters because you'll never have to deal with them, just like in NMS
Assuming the game is ever launched in a meaningful way, it will be interesting to see where it lands between EO and NMS as far as interaction between other players...

Yeah, it took EO a good decade to figure out how to handle 1000 person instances.
 
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The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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47. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 6, 2018, 14:45 theyarecomingforyou
 
HorrorScope wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 13:29:
Yes I agree one of the things I'd be interested in is joining a guild that its mission is to go after the whales ships. You mention stealing, lets say you can do that, does the buyer of the ship initially get a duplicate ship back or since it wasn't destroyed, he's SOL. I know this game has insurance (for the love of), it that for destruction or stealing to, anyone out there look at their policies? That would be hilarious if you could steal a whales ship and they can't get it back. Now you have my interest.
There is insurance and the larger and/or rarer ships will take longer to recover. It's possible some of the largest ships may take weeks to recover, forcing players to rely on other ships. The intention with insurance is to be able to forge documentation to allow the stolen ship to pass as your own but it will require quite a lot of skill / expense. Or players can simply keep it as a pirated ship and be prepared to defend it from law enforcement on a regular basis.

There will also be rare derelict capital ships like the Bengal Carrier that cannot be owned but can be taken over and defended for larger scale organisation battles - individual players would be unable to defend it, requiring cooperation.

As with everything it comes down to how enjoyable and well balanced the final mechanics end up. If done well the game will compel players to work together; if done badly it will allow the players who spend the most to dominate everyone else.

HorrorScope wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 13:29:
I think I recall along the way we lost personal dedicated servers, is that correct? If so boo.
As far as I'm aware there will be dedicated servers but they will be very much more limited in scope that the Persistent Universe, as there are so many interdependent servers that cannot be replicated in a dedicated environment.
 
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46. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 6, 2018, 07:35 Mr. Tact
 
loomy wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 06:51:
what he doesn't mention this time is that most of the game will be single player against npcs, so nothing anybody else buys matters because you'll never have to deal with them, just like in NMS
Assuming the game is ever launched in a meaningful way, it will be interesting to see where it lands between EO and NMS as far as interaction between other players...
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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45. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 6, 2018, 06:51 loomy
 
what he doesn't mention this time is that most of the game will be single player against npcs, so nothing anybody else buys matters because you'll never have to deal with them, just like in NMS  
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44. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 19:03 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 18:13:
datachasm wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 14:13:
it was always going to be an MMO, it was always going to have a cash store for optional support. but... my grief was with the "limited" edition ships and LTI being rather worthless and not collectable even if some of the impulse buys i made in 2013 implied that they were.

there will probably be between 2 and 5 million LTI ships in the game at launch, and the only one at this point that is rare is the Phoenix for whatever reason.

LTI is certainly going to bifurcate the player base into "haves" and "have-nots." It's a game changer in how you approach the game if there aren't any consequences to losing a ship.
Lifetime Insurance, the suckers didn't know what hit em.

 
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Nullity's Law
There's an easy and fool-proof way to tell if anything related conservative/right-wing/Republican politics is true or not. If anyone calls it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.needtoimpeach.com/
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43. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 18:13 jdreyer
 
datachasm wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 14:13:
it was always going to be an MMO, it was always going to have a cash store for optional support. but... my grief was with the "limited" edition ships and LTI being rather worthless and not collectable even if some of the impulse buys i made in 2013 implied that they were.

there will probably be between 2 and 5 million LTI ships in the game at launch, and the only one at this point that is rare is the Phoenix for whatever reason.

LTI is certainly going to bifurcate the player base into "haves" and "have-nots." It's a game changer in how you approach the game if there aren't any consequences to losing a ship.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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42. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 15:14 Cutter
 
Everyone's a winner baby, that's the truth....
 
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"I like oak myself, that's what's in my bedroom. How 'bout you Jimmie? You an oak man?"
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41. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 14:13 datachasm
 
it was always going to be an MMO, it was always going to have a cash store for optional support. but... my grief was with the "limited" edition ships and LTI being rather worthless and not collectable even if some of the impulse buys i made in 2013 implied that they were.

there will probably be between 2 and 5 million LTI ships in the game at launch, and the only one at this point that is rare is the Phoenix for whatever reason.
 
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40. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 13:32 HorrorScope
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 11:19:
This is a really good way to make me NEVER want to play in their pseudo MMO mode,

Really that is what it has turned into, another fucking mmo, not what the people asked for.
 
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39. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 13:29 HorrorScope
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 07:18:
Personally I look forward to working with my friends to take down larger ships that people have invested a lot of money into. You'll be able to steal ships,

Lets say this actually plays out...

Yes I agree one of the things I'd be interested in is joining a guild that its mission is to go after the whales ships. You mention stealing, lets say you can do that, does the buyer of the ship initially get a duplicate ship back or since it wasn't destroyed, he's SOL. I know this game has insurance (for the love of), it that for destruction or stealing to, anyone out there look at their policies? That would be hilarious if you could steal a whales ship and they can't get it back. Now you have my interest.

I think I recall along the way we lost personal dedicated servers, is that correct? If so boo.
 
Avatar 17232
 
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38. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 11:45 Slashman
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 04:09:
Slashman wrote on Aug 4, 2018, 20:36:
The problem is that you'll get a person with all the spare time in the world and all the spare money in the world and that will be your offset.

It's not the ones with time or money but the ones with BOTH who will ruin everyone's day.

Why do you hate capitalism trust fund babies?

Zounds!!! Found out...
 
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37. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 11:19 eRe4s3r
 
This is a really good way to make me NEVER want to play in their pseudo MMO mode, give me SQ42 and then I'll sod off and forget the rest of the game even exists. Especially because the bigger more decked out ships will ALWAYS win in a 1:1 fight, and having yours lost completely while the enemy can afford infinite insurance is pay to win.

But hey, nothing new in that regard, greed ruins all games.
 
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36. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 09:34 Zarkonis
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 04:13:
That same quote could also describe Eve Online, and yet that game absolutely has "winners" and "losers."
Only if you're willing to be a dick. Which seems to be 99 percent of their player base nowadays. Can't be a peaceful miner and manufacturer anymore without your Hulk getting shot up by some douchebag. Trust me, this happened to me twice last week, which is why I will no longer play that game.
 
Slow and steady might not win the race at first, until you shoot everyone ahead of you.
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35. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 08:42 Jonjonz
 
This hucksters continues to show just how clueless his somewhat successful con is:

* He posits that all players either have unlimited free time or unlimited cash.

* The fact is that most players clump around the middle of that plane, with far less cash or free time than the two extreme ends.

So most players are screwed, and skill does not enter into the picture.

He might as well have said the game will be just like most cheesy mobile games, 99% grind with a cash bypass.
 
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34. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 07:19 Mr. Tact
 
Armengar wrote on Aug 5, 2018, 04:24:
noone is forcing people to pay for vapourware.
While true, that has no bearing on whether the game is pay to win or not.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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33. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 07:18 theyarecomingforyou
 
Let me just start by saying I'm opposed to this form of monetisation. Unfortunately this has long been the plan and isn't a new development.

In terms of how it impacts the game, it's true that Star Citizen doesn't have a traditional 'win' mechanic. You can buy bigger ships but they require a crew and will have higher upkeep costs. Players with larger ships aren't likely to go around attacking starter ships because they won't benefit from it, especially as the crime stat system will spawn missions to take down such players.

But it's also true that spending real money in the game will allow players to buy better armour, better weapons and better ships in a particular class. New players will be at a disadvantage over those who have bought more expensive ships or more currency. That could very easily get tedious. But is that any more tedious than players who play 8 hours a day and dominate based on skills?

The question is ultimately is the game going to be any fun? Personally I look forward to working with my friends to take down larger ships that people have invested a lot of money into. You'll be able to steal ships, so if somebody attempts to solo in a large multi-crew ship they'll be easily overpowered. I look forward to being the underdog and having to rely on tactics to take down more powerful opponents.

If CIG gets the balance wrong then the game could easily be a trainwreck. But if they get it right then you'll have a really interesting co-op component. Players that invest more will need crews, which will want paying. Organisations (the Star Citizen version of clans) will encourage players to group together to pool their resources. The economy encourages players to work together and that for me is where the enjoyability is.

Personally I hope that community pressure forces CIG to abandon this monetisation system but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.
 
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32. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 04:24 Armengar
 
noone is forcing people to pay for vapourware. I havent and wont spend a penny on this until it is released AND ive seen it; this is the same as I did with Elite Dangerous.

Those who have spent money on this, well I wish you luck. Those who have spent huge sums on this obviously have more money than they need in life.
 
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
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31. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 04:13 jdreyer
 
Chris Roberts explains that Star Citizen is not play to win, because all items should be available through gameplay, not to mention this is not actually a game you can win, saying, "This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isnít a normal game. Itís a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people."

That same quote could also describe Eve Online, and yet that game absolutely has "winners" and "losers."
 
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The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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30. Re: On Star Citizen Economics Aug 5, 2018, 04:10 jdreyer
 
Kosumo wrote on Aug 4, 2018, 21:17:
Chris Roberts, what a clown.

Chris is a liar.

That excuse he gives is so bullshit. He just wants more money because he is so bad at game design and project management that he is wasting money and time because he does not know what he is doing in the slightest.

And if what he says is true Ö why start selling unlimited in game money now when he can't give a reliable release date ... how is that helping those who have time/money but not enough money/time to play?

It make no sense other than he is a greedy person who wants to milk even more money from those in his cult despite them already have given him over $190 million dollars and 6 years and all he has to show is a poorly coded tech demo and several staged 'gameplay' videos.

Most scummy man in gaming.

Hey, those 500 employees aren't going to work for free.
 
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