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20. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 16:04 jdreyer
 
Prez wrote on Jul 19, 2018, 09:42:
I'm not saying that I don't agree that anything related to garbage person Alex Jones should be outright banned from Facebook, but it makes me wonder - with Google being a private company as Facebook is, do people also feel that Google has an ethical and moral obligation to block links to his garbage as well? Or 9/11 truthers? Or Flat-Earthers? Holocaust Deniers? As much as I don't like blatant lies being consumed as truth by the intellectually challenged masses, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that. The obvious question would be where is the line drawn?
Google and Facebook are private companies. They can do what they want as long as they don't violate the rights of protected groups (minorities, gays, etc.) 9/11 Truthers and Flat-Earthers aren't protected, and companies might have a vested interest in keeping such incorrect information off their platforms.
 
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19. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 10:07 Task
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 19, 2018, 08:29:
By "Iraq War," I assume you mean the weapons of mass destruction, correct? That wasn't fake news! It was a lie from the government, but not fake news by the MSM. We had no strong reason to doubt what was being said, no evidence to the contrary, and no way to get any evidence to the contrary. On issues like this, the government will always be the sole source. That they lied is shitty, but you can't blame the MSM for their lie. How should the MSM have handled it? There was literally no way for them to prove this incorrect, and nothing other than gut feelings, which not even everyone had. Contrast that with, say, inauguration crowds, which had multiple sources and images to prove government lies.

Fake News is such a dumb term. Let's call it by what it is, propaganda or the willful spread, ignorant or not of said government propaganda in the case of wars.

I think you know full well that the MSM can be blamed in those instances for regurgitating what the government says. How would the media or people know? If the government were a person, are their lips moving? They're probably lying. Think about any interference in a country or war the U.S. has committed to since the end of WW2 BEFORE even Iraq, a good portion of them all started with obfuscation of facts (twisting intelligence to fit a narrative), outright lies, and 'false flag' incidents. It has been the U.S. government's basic M.O. almost every single time.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice, shame on both of us.

Here is a very clear example: The "Nayirah Testimony" of 1990 is famous for being the most sophisticated propaganda at that time, which was aired to millions of Americans. George Bush Sr. repeated the lies numerous times and helped stir Americans, yet again, in participation of war (1st Gulf War).

There were people at that time sounding alarms for the second Iraq War too, but Americans were suckered in for some red hot killin' time after 9/11 and were easily manipulated. The media, as the Fourth Estate, is supposed to be impartially holding the government's feet to the fire regardless of which party is in power, but it just isn't that way anymore. Trump's air campaigns in the Middle East have killed scores more civilians than orders under Obama, but do we get to hear about that in our nightly news? How many times have Americans been deceived about interfering in Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, and Libya? Plenty.

But anyways I agree with the infowars stuff. People like Alex Jones are charlatans and fantasy land crap like Lizard People. I just don't agree that the media can't be held accountable for spreading government lies, whether its Trumps Faux Noise or MSNBC.
 
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18. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 09:46 Simon Says
 
Prez wrote on Jul 19, 2018, 09:42:
I'm not saying that I don't agree that anything related to garbage person Alex Jomes shouldn't be outright banned from Facebook, but it makes me wonder - with Google being a private company as Facebook is, do people also feel that Google has an ethical and moral obligation to block links to his garbage? As much as I don't like blatant lies being consumed as truth by the intellectually challenged masses, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that. The obvious question would be where is the line drawn?

Imho the line should be drawn between public ( social media is public
even tho it is run by private entities ) and private ( personal non-profit, non-state, non-corporate ). What is public shouldn't be censored, especially with big platforms like this, it just gives a few people way too much power as gatekeepers ( same principle as ISPs with net-neutrality ).

Private ( as defined above ) censorship is fine.
 
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17. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 09:43 Simon Says
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 19, 2018, 08:29:
This is absurd "bad people on both sides." If you cheat on your girlfriend, yet she ate the last peach, is she wrong to say you're a bad person?

There's no way to compare this to any MSM.

Yes she's wrong, what you can DO can be relatively "bad", but it doesn't mean that you ARE bad ( aka, that everything you do is bad, that bad is your "nature" and you can't be/change or do anything else ).

Yes, it's not comparable, nobody died as a result of Alex Jones ( whom I have no love for ) spewing lies. Millions did over decades as a result of the MSM doing it. I wholeheartedly agree.

You're missing the point Beamer. Just watch the whole 15 mins'ish video instead of going on a strawman and composition/division logical fallacy because it's patently obvious you haven't. If you don't, don't even bother replying.

This comment was edited on Jul 19, 2018, 10:08.
 
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16. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 09:42 Prez
 
I'm not saying that I don't agree that anything related to garbage person Alex Jones should be outright banned from Facebook, but it makes me wonder - with Google being a private company as Facebook is, do people also feel that Google has an ethical and moral obligation to block links to his garbage as well? Or 9/11 truthers? Or Flat-Earthers? Holocaust Deniers? As much as I don't like blatant lies being consumed as truth by the intellectually challenged masses, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that. The obvious question would be where is the line drawn?  
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15. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 09:28 Task
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 22:00:
China is quickly changing so who knows how it looks in 30 years.. but one thing is for certain, 4 years of Trump will make sure nobody wants to be like the USA anymore.

The world has disliked America for far longer though, or rather disliked our Foreign Policy. Trump is just the orange icing piled on the shit sandwich.
 
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14. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 08:29 Beamer
 
Simon Says wrote on Jul 19, 2018, 07:29:
"In other words, Facebook will try and stop provably fake news from going viral, but won't ban it."

Which is the best way to deal with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv3TPYTvyI

This latest wave of complains from the MSM is simply them trying to get other companies to censor their competitors ( in the AD marketplace, same way they did with the 2 previous ADpocalypses ) while at the same time remaining holier than thou and exempt from the fake news measures. And they did and continue to air factually incorrect news from all the way back to the Iraq war until today among the factually correct ones.

It's an attempt at anti-competitive practices against independents on youtube, twitter, facebook, etc.

C'mon.

This is absurd "bad people on both sides." If you cheat on your girlfriend, yet she ate the last peach, is she wrong to say you're a bad person?

By "Iraq War," I assume you mean the weapons of mass destruction, correct? That wasn't fake news! It was a lie from the government, but not fake news by the MSM. We had no strong reason to doubt what was being said, no evidence to the contrary, and no way to get any evidence to the contrary. On issues like this, the government will always be the sole source. That they lied is shitty, but you can't blame the MSM for their lie. How should the MSM have handled it? There was literally no way for them to prove this incorrect, and nothing other than gut feelings, which not even everyone had. Contrast that with, say, inauguration crowds, which had multiple sources and images to prove government lies.

And then contrast that with what Info Wars does. Reptilians leading the New World Order, NSA bases on Mars, paid crisis actors faking school shootings. There's no basis in fact there. No reason to believe anything. It's not coming from a reliable source, it's being made up on the spot by lunatics.

Even Fox News is based in fact. It misleads, it spins, it overcovers some things and utterly ignores others, but the basic thing it starts with is a fact. You can watch Fox News and have an idea of what's going on in the world. A bad one, but an idea. And when Fox News is factually wrong, it will release a retraction or update. Every MSM source does this. When has Info Wars ever retracted anything or issued a correction? And since they don't start with facts, but fairy tales, watching it means you're horribly uninformed.

And there's no reason to have Info Wars as your source. Ever. Do they get some things correct? Certainly. But if they get it correct, literally everyone else has, too. You can pick from dozens of sources, sources that get things correct more often than not and retract things when they don't. If Info Wars is the only source of something, it's wrong. There's no reason, ever, to source Info Wars. There's no reason to use it as a source of information. Anything it has that few others have is a fairy tale.

There's no way to compare this to any MSM.
 
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13. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 07:34 Jonjonz
 
This money grubber has no qualms when police states like the United Arab Emirates tell him he has to censor out a long list of things they hand him, in return for letting him do business there.

Farcebook won't give up the money from Russia and neither will the Right. Ever since Citizens United we live in the same system as Russia and China, bribery is legal, and representatives can accept them from any multinational korporation, criminal or otherwise.
 
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12. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 07:29 Simon Says
 
"In other words, Facebook will try and stop provably fake news from going viral, but won't ban it."

Which is the best way to deal with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv3TPYTvyI

This latest wave of complains from the MSM is simply them trying to get other companies to censor their competitors ( in the AD marketplace, same way they did with the 2 previous ADpocalypses ) while at the same time remaining holier than thou and exempt from the fake news measures. And they did and continue to air factually incorrect news from all the way back to the Iraq war until today among the factually correct ones.

It's an attempt at anti-competitive practices against independents on youtube, twitter, facebook, etc.
 
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11. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 03:40 Luke
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 22:10:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 22:00:
.. but one thing is for certain, 4 years of Trump will make sure nobody wants to be like the USA anymore.
Infowars: "We make up the lies"
Trump: "I tweet the lies."
Hannity: "I report the lies as news."
Sanders: "I repeat the lies."
NRA/Russia: "We fund the lies"
Mitch M.: "I legalize the lies"
Fox News: "We sell the lies"

and last but not least
Trump supporters: "We believe the lies."


HA a whiner.....me want this.....you can't have.....you dupid bahhh
 
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10. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2018, 01:47 Rectal Prolapse
 
Just out of curiosity, have any of you read The Righteous Mind?

https://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Mind-Divided-Politics-Religion/dp/0307455777
 
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9. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 22:56 Cutter
 
Timmeh wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 20:39:
The last I checked this is AMERICA where we should have freedom of speech and political expression.

We should not be censoring points of view that we dont agree with. We should openly debate them, read them, accept them or reject them as individuals.

Left and Right politics need to get removed from this entire issue. (meaning dont try to shut down political speech of the other side)

The left is completely out of control with all the attacking the core basics rights we have as American Citizens and interjecting things that are not rights at all.

The essence of free speech is allowing speech you personally dont agree with. I have no interest in turning this country into china.

do any of you?

What did I say the other day about how cons perceive the world? Couldn't come up with a more perfect example than this. A private company isn't taking it's ethical responsibilities to the public seriously and he perceives it as the "left" attacking and trying to destroy his rights as an American. Just perfect.
 
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8. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 22:52 Cutter
 
Fuckerberg isn't dumb. He understands perfectly what's going on. He's making money with this shit and that's all he cares about. It's why the rest of it is all corporate buzzword double-speak that's all talk and zero action. Exact same reasons Twitter doesn't get rid of Trump. Or any other social media company does business the exact same way. They could stop it easily if they were so inclined. Anything else is just bullshit PR.
 
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7. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 22:10 RedEye9
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 22:00:
.. but one thing is for certain, 4 years of Trump will make sure nobody wants to be like the USA anymore.
Infowars: "We make up the lies"
Trump: "I tweet the lies."
Hannity: "I report the lies as news."
Sanders: "I repeat the lies."
NRA/Russia: "We fund the lies"
Mitch M.: "I legalize the lies"
Fox News: "We sell the lies"

and last but not least
Trump supporters: "We believe the lies."

 
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6. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 22:00 eRe4s3r
 
Task wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 21:39:
America won't become China... come on now man. Both countries have distinct histories that led them to how they are today, especially the forms of government.

China is quickly changing so who knows how it looks in 30 years.. but one thing is for certain, 4 years of Trump will make sure nobody wants to be like the USA anymore.
 
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5. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 21:39 Task
 
America won't become China... come on now man. Both countries have distinct histories that led them to how they are today, especially the forms of government.  
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4. Re: Into the Black Jul 18, 2018, 21:33 RedEye9
 
NegaDeath wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 21:08:
The last I checked Facebook is a global service, not America. And your freedom of speech laws protect you freedom from govt censorship, not freedom from the private sector denying you a soapbox or freedom from public criticism. Alex Jones will still be able to host news on his own site, like for example the story from a year ago about the child sex slave space colonies on Mars.. Riveting stuff.
Beamer wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 21:14:
Last I checked Facebook isn't America, and anyone that thinks Infowars has value is probably a terrible American human.
/thread
 
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3. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 21:14 Beamer
 
Timmeh wrote on Jul 18, 2018, 20:39:
The last I checked this is AMERICA where we should have freedom of speech and political expression.

We should not be censoring points of view that we dont agree with. We should openly debate them, read them, accept them or reject them as individuals.

Left and Right politics need to get removed from this entire issue. (meaning dont try to shut down political speech of the other side)

The left is completely out of control with all the attacking the core basics rights we have as American Citizens and interjecting things that are not rights at all.

The essence of free speech is allowing speech you personally dont agree with. I have no interest in turning this country into china.

do any of you?

Last I checked Facebook isn't America, and anyone that thinks Infowars has value is probably a terrible American.
 
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2. Re: Into the Black Jul 18, 2018, 21:08 NegaDeath
 
The last I checked Facebook is a global service, not America. And your freedom of speech laws protect you freedom from govt censorship, not freedom from the private sector denying you a soapbox or freedom from public criticism. Alex Jones will still be able to host news on his own site, like for example the story from a year ago about the child sex slave space colonies on Mars.. Riveting stuff.  
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1. Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2018, 20:39 Timmeh
 
The last I checked this is AMERICA where we should have freedom of speech and political expression.

We should not be censoring points of view that we dont agree with. We should openly debate them, read them, accept them or reject them as individuals.

Left and Right politics need to get removed from this entire issue. (meaning dont try to shut down political speech of the other side)

The left is completely out of control with all the attacking the core basics rights we have as American Citizens and interjecting things that are not rights at all.

The essence of free speech is allowing speech you personally dont agree with. I have no interest in turning this country into china.

do any of you?
 
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