Star Control Court Battle Brewing?

It's been a while since our last update on the conflict between Stardock and original Star Control developers Paul Reiche and Fred Ford over the rights to the Star Control series, but it that does not mean things are settled. A new post from Paul and Fred indicates this may be heading for the courts (thanks ShadowofWard), announcing a Fundraiser called Help Fred & Paul Save the Universe. The post, on a page that notes "Star Control is a registered trademark of Stardock Systems," says they seek to establish "The Frungy Defense Fund" to pay the legal fees in this battle, which they say will total around two million dollars. It's been difficult to sort through this case from afar, as the two sides have contradictory explanations of the facts involved, so we'll just follow-up as needed. Here's their latest outline of their case:
So how did Stardock get involved in this? In 2013 the corporation purportedly bought a few Star Control assets at a bankruptcy auction, but importantly not our games or creative work. Shortly after the auction, Brad Wardell contacted us to see if we would help him make a new Star Control game, or at least license our creative work to Stardock. We gave a clear ‘no’ to both offers, because we wanted to preserve our creative work for our own projects. For the next 4 years Brad Wardell repeatedly asked to license the original material, and each time we rejected him, Brad assured us Stardock would never ever use any of our material without permission. These assurances turned out to be false.

Shortly after we announced Ghosts of the Precursors, Stardock claimed they had always had rights to our original, creative material and began to bundle and sell our game without permission. When we tried to stop these illegal sales, Stardock filed their lawsuit.

We (Fred and Paul) have worked together for 30 years and have seen almost everything the game industry has to offer, but have never seen or experienced a predatory legal attack like this -- an established, corporate publisher attempting to bully two lone developers into surrendering their most treasured game, characters and unique universe.
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22.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 25, 2018, 07:08
Dev
22.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 25, 2018, 07:08
Jun 25, 2018, 07:08
Dev
 
Kxmode wrote on Jun 24, 2018, 03:59:
Why doesn't Stardock just let these guys develop the game and they can publish it?
Initially that's how it was going to be. Stardock even said it wasn't a problem for them.

Then it all fell apart.
21.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 15:28
21.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 15:28
Jun 24, 2018, 15:28
 
Dammit. And here I was not giving a shit about the lame Stardock version. Oh well. Guess we don't get a real successor to SCII.
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20.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 15:27
20.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 15:27
Jun 24, 2018, 15:27
 
Stardock can gargle balls.
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Re: Skyrim Creation Club Launches with Survival Mode
Jun 24, 2018, 07:25
19.
Re: Skyrim Creation Club Launches with Survival Mode Jun 24, 2018, 07:25
Jun 24, 2018, 07:25
 
nomoreshite wrote on Jun 24, 2018, 06:14:
They must have made millions from that shit and now come begging...they deserve to lose..
No, they probably didnt make millions off Skylanders. Activision did. Billions. And Activision is well known for using every trick in the book to skim off agreed royalties or not pay royalties at all.
18.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 06:14
18.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 06:14
Jun 24, 2018, 06:14
 
if they worked on a scam game (skylanders) thats worth about $30 but costs $1000 due to tieing everything to plastic tat, they can go F*&K themseleves.

As a parent it was the worst F*^king thing before loot boxes..

They must have made millions from that shit and now come begging...they deserve to lose..

for the replyer they are they damn ceo of the sub part of activision

here he is bragging about it: skylander crap

if they didn't make millions then they are fucking idiots

This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2018, 08:01.
17.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 05:41
17.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 05:41
Jun 24, 2018, 05:41
 
Choobeastia wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 15:15:

There was a legal issue, whereby they couldn't make a new Star Control game because they were working for Activision on Skylanders, and Activision would have gained rights to any game they made. At least, this is the claim, so as a result, they were not able to work on any personal projects and retain the rights to them.

Stop trying to give them excuses. They had 30 years to make a sequel, only to scream when someone beat them to it.

If they are passionate about their own IP. WHY WAIT TILL NOW?
16.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 03:59
Kxmode
 
16.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 03:59
Jun 24, 2018, 03:59
 Kxmode
 
Why doesn't Stardock just let these guys develop the game and they can publish it?
"...and in stonks, Fizzy Squeezy Stocklebocks leaped over Droopy Whoopy Bondfluffs, hitting 300-gigglebits to their 150-snorebucks. Meanwhile, in Whimsyland's market, the pancakes reached parity with pogo sticks."
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15.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 03:11
15.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 03:11
Jun 24, 2018, 03:11
 
Numinar wrote on Jun 24, 2018, 02:28:
Cutter wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 23:05:
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 22:56:
It sounds to me like you guys are just trying to scam people out of two million dollars.

That's probably it. Can't imagine the property is worth anything remotely close to that. Or ever would be even if they won it all and got a game made. And even if they raised the money and won how the hell could they afford to make a game anyway? Yeah, sounds pretty scammy all around.

It's personal though. This IP meant something to them, something they poured years of work into. Something others have attempted to emulate (Star Control 3) and failed at miserably.

It seems petty but SC2 is one of the earlier games where there is a real sense of authorship, with writing and humor that mostly nails the landings.

The Stardock project has a lot to prove, after their MOO came out and was competent yet missing that spark that makes those early 90's PC games still amazing experiences today. Not that Paul and Fred seemed likely to live up to the previous title either but I can appreciate how they may feel protective over their legacy. Their Activision projects made millions but I imagine Star Control was professionally more fulfilling and important to them than kids/toys to life games.
All of that is fine, but it doesn't give them license to be assholes.
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14.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 24, 2018, 02:28
14.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 24, 2018, 02:28
Jun 24, 2018, 02:28
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 23:05:
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 22:56:
It sounds to me like you guys are just trying to scam people out of two million dollars.

That's probably it. Can't imagine the property is worth anything remotely close to that. Or ever would be even if they won it all and got a game made. And even if they raised the money and won how the hell could they afford to make a game anyway? Yeah, sounds pretty scammy all around.

It's personal though. This IP meant something to them, something they poured years of work into. Something others have attempted to emulate (Star Control 3) and failed at miserably.

It seems petty but SC2 is one of the earlier games where there is a real sense of authorship, with writing and humor that mostly nails the landings.

The Stardock project has a lot to prove, after their MOO came out and was competent yet missing that spark that makes those early 90's PC games still amazing experiences today. Not that Paul and Fred seemed likely to live up to the previous title either but I can appreciate how they may feel protective over their legacy. Their Activision projects made millions but I imagine Star Control was professionally more fulfilling and important to them than kids/toys to life games.
13.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 23:05
13.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 23:05
Jun 23, 2018, 23:05
 
Creston wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 22:56:
It sounds to me like you guys are just trying to scam people out of two million dollars.

That's probably it. Can't imagine the property is worth anything remotely close to that. Or ever would be even if they won it all and got a game made. And even if they raised the money and won how the hell could they afford to make a game anyway? Yeah, sounds pretty scammy all around.
"The horse I bet on was so slow, the jockey kept a diary of the trip." - Henny Youngman
12.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 22:56
12.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 22:56
Jun 23, 2018, 22:56
 
In 2013 the corporation purportedly bought a few Star Control assets at a bankruptcy auction

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's not how it went? I'm pretty sure they bought all but one or two specific things from Star Control, including the actual license to the name. IIRC, the only things they didn't get were the characters and the race names.

they seek to establish "The Frungy Defense Fund" to pay the legal fees in this battle, which they say will total around two million dollars

It sounds to me like you guys are just trying to scam people out of two million dollars.
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11.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 21:39
11.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 21:39
Jun 23, 2018, 21:39
 
Choobeastia wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 20:25:
That's like saying that George R.R. Martin is taking too long on the next Game of Thrones book, so an HBO writer should write it instead, and then try to claim that he wasn't the original author because he has a publishing company. Just let the court decide, rather than looking at the world all, "I like Guy A more than Guy B, so Guy A is totes right ya'll!"
There are a ton of details that your analogy does not consider. That said, I agree that we should just let the courts figure it out. From my perspective, it seems like Stardock is operating in good faith and the original creators are not. Stardock bought the IP with the obvious intention to make a game. There has been absolutely no movement on the IP for over 30 years so it's a stretch for me to see any damages this might cause Fred and Paul. It's not certain that Star Control is even a profitable IP at this point, Star Dock took a risk spending any money on this.
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10.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 20:25
10.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 20:25
Jun 23, 2018, 20:25
 
That's like saying that George R.R. Martin is taking too long on the next Game of Thrones book, so an HBO writer should write it instead, and then try to claim that he wasn't the original author because he has a publishing company. Just let the court decide, rather than looking at the world all, "I like Guy A more than Guy B, so Guy A is totes right ya'll!"
9.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 18:46
9.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 18:46
Jun 23, 2018, 18:46
 
Paul and Fred can go to hell. If it wasnt for Stardock we still wouldnt have a Star Control game, after all these decades. Ghosts of the Precursors isnt a game, its just a paper launched idea, whereas Star Control Origins is a few months away from retail launch.
8.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 15:15
8.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 15:15
Jun 23, 2018, 15:15
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 13:19:
2 million bucks? Hahaha! Yeah good luck with that. Case is an obvious loser otherwise they'd have had no problem finding a lawyer to take it pro bono. I imagine they've been told that by plenty of lawyers too. I doubt they'll even raise 1% of that. And rightfully so. These clowns need to learn to let go, shut the fuck up, and just move on already. Jesus, the IP isn't even worth.

They wouldn't find a lawyer to take it pro bono, because their countersuit is not for damages, but to cement the rights, so court fees wouldn't be waved and the lawyer would be doing a huge amount of work.

From what can be seen, legally they have the Copywrite, but Stardock has the Trademark. Thus Stardock can use the name Star Control, but none of the original IP. The agreement between GOG, Atari, and Fred/Paul make it rather clear that even Atari recognized that back in the day.

A solid examination of the case for anyone interested:
Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it50gS5yYB4
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yochP8F69LY

Vach wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 13:31:
Taking them like f**king 30 years to want to make a new Star Control?

But now they want to make one when someone made one, yeah sure.

I hope they end up bankrupt and losing their own IP forever.


There was a legal issue, whereby they couldn't make a new Star Control game because they were working for Activision on Skylanders, and Activision would have gained rights to any game they made. At least, this is the claim, so as a result, they were not able to work on any personal projects and retain the rights to them.

This comment was edited on Jun 23, 2018, 20:29.
7.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 15:00
7.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 15:00
Jun 23, 2018, 15:00
 
These guys are pathetic and they are going nowhere. Seriously. Now that Stardock is making a game they decide they want to make one and are throwing a tantrum. F*** off losers.
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6.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 13:31
6.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 13:31
Jun 23, 2018, 13:31
 
Taking them like f**king 30 years to want to make a new Star Control?

But now they want to make one when someone made one, yeah sure.

I hope they end up bankrupt and losing their own IP forever.

5.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 13:19
5.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 13:19
Jun 23, 2018, 13:19
 
2 million bucks? Hahaha! Yeah good luck with that. Case is an obvious loser otherwise they'd have had no problem finding a lawyer to take it pro bono. I imagine they've been told that by plenty of lawyers too. I doubt they'll even raise 1% of that. And rightfully so. These clowns need to learn to let go, shut the fuck up, and just move on already. Jesus, the IP isn't even worth.
"The horse I bet on was so slow, the jockey kept a diary of the trip." - Henny Youngman
4.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 13:02
4.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 13:02
Jun 23, 2018, 13:02
 
Hopefully this gets settled once and for all.

Think these guys will ever feel *not* wronged by Stardock?
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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3.
 
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing?
Jun 23, 2018, 13:00
3.
Re: Star Control Court Battle Brewing? Jun 23, 2018, 13:00
Jun 23, 2018, 13:00
 
BIGtrouble77 wrote on Jun 23, 2018, 12:50:
This may be the first time where I have little support for the original creators.

Exactly, the moment they abused the copyright act on GOG they fell out of my grace too.
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