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It Came from E3 2018, Part 3

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48. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 17:27 jdreyer
 
Good article discussing Sledgehammer's decisions on when to use the swastika. In short, they include it in the single player game for historical accuracy and narrative immersion, but remove it from the multi player game in order to adhere to regional laws and provide a consistent environment for all players.  
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47. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 16:42 Flatline
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 16:18:
Yeah but Trump isn't wrong on NAFTA. And he's doing what he's supposed to be doing, looking out for the best interest of the American worker. Meanwhile Canada has the most expensive dairy on the planet and Canadian consumers have been getting fucked in the ass with this bullshit since the 1970s. Point in fact, Canadians generally pay the most and get the least for virtually everything out of every first world country. It'd be nice if for once we actually had someone looking out for our interests. Dairy. Maple Syrup. Cable. Phone/cell service. Cars. et al. Take your pick, we get fucked on all of them.


Most of the economists I've read, including some conservative ones, are nervous because all of the proposed tariffs will hurt 10 american workers for every 1 worker it helps.

Basically, a *lot* of US Industry relies on cheap steel from other places to remain internationally competitive. And when we start a trade war, the demand will drive the cost of domestic steel up while the sudden surplus of foreign steel will drive the international demand down, lowering prices, and making international companies *more* competitive than domestic companies. So you either need to start slapping tarriffs on entire supply chains that are even remotely foreign or you accept you're going to cause more harm than good.

This isn't a simple equation here. There are tons of down-stream and unintended consequences that happen and Trump doesn't have the patience to learn about them all to anticipate them.
 
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46. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 16:21 Beamer
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 16:14:
Yes kids shouldn't be playing. But not because of the Nazis or the swastika. Because its a violent shooter. However we all know that a lot of kids will definitely have access to this game so DICE might as well make it historically accurate (in that regard, if not in gameplay). I can see that we won't agree on this, you seem firmly of the opinion that censorship in this case is the right thing to do, I think that it's wrong in most cases, but especially in this one for all the reasons I listed above.

I would change my mind if you could show me a single case where censorship of any kind, but especially with regards to history worked to change people in a positive way.

I for one, wouldn't enjoy being forced to play as a nazi instead of a generic axis soldier.
That's why they do it. Because that opinion matters to them. People who would rather be a Nazi? They can buy another game. Really, few devs want to cater to anyone that thinks being a Nazi would make something more fun.
 
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45. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 16:14 VaranDragon
 
Yes kids shouldn't be playing. But not because of the Nazis or the swastika. Because its a violent shooter. However we all know that a lot of kids will definitely have access to this game so DICE might as well make it historically accurate (in that regard, if not in gameplay). I can see that we won't agree on this, you seem firmly of the opinion that censorship in this case is the right thing to do, I think that it's wrong in most cases, but especially in this one for all the reasons I listed above.

I would change my mind if you could show me a single case where censorship of any kind, but especially with regards to history worked to change people in a positive way.
 
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44. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 16:14 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:33:
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:24:
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 07:22:
More importantly, they don't want some kid buying the game then being surprised he has to be a Nazi. It's fine. Why do people want this in multiplayer so badly?

Well, to be the devil's advocate for a change, the game is 18+ only right? So that point about kids playing as Nazis is kind of moot, since they shouldn't be playing the game AT ALL.

One other thing, what kind of point are you trying to make here exactly since Bethesda's Wolfenstein games are clearly single player only?

Also I dont get why its so difficult to understand why people want to play as the BAD guys? I assume you played cowboys and indians when you were a kid? Well I always wanted to play as the indian, even though at the time they were still thought of as the "bad guys". I also rooted for Darth Vader, even though he was clearly a bad guy. Its classic escapism, and its been around since people learned to use their imagination, and there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean that those people are psychos for wanting their virtual fantasy to mimic the real thing as close as possible. I mean the real Nazis used swastikas right? Censoring the symbol is giving them, and it, more myster and power than they should have.

I use "kid" loosely. Anyone buying it should be a bit irked to be forced to be a Nazi.

You're right, Bethesda is making a single player game. I'm not sure if you mean me with the "you," but that's what I was saying - comparing Bethesda, clearly making swastikas a sign of the enemy, to EA and Activision, who are avoiding using it as a sign for the player, seems really, really dumb.

Lastly, yes, you can play as the bad guys, and you're still playing as German soldiers, just not with a sign that has an enormous amount of power regardless of whether these games use it. It 100% stands for the murder of 6 million Jewish people. Why in the world would a game company want to brand that on its unwilling players? Why? In what world is that a smart, logical decision?

Why do you hate realism?
 
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43. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 13:11 Beamer
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 11:36:
Are you being obtuse on purpose? The point is fairly simple: You make a fun game, out of a serious subject matter. That is already pretty degrading. But then you decide to degrade the meaning of the subject matter even further by partially removing an important part of its history.

How is this not clear?

Instead of portraying the Third Reich as the evil Nazi empire, you now teach "kids" (who barely learn any of this in school) through Battlefield that WWII was just another war against some germans...

That you can play as those germans only reinforces the point that they were some random enemy dudes who lost a war way back when.

Not being obtuse. Wouldn't that just be insult to injury?

You really think people are forgetting about nazis without the swastika? I think we're at an impasse. To me, it's ludicrous to expect people to enjoy playing with a swastika on their uniform, and if anything an insult to those that died to make a toy where the swastika is part of the fun. To you, it's already an insult, and for some reason, even though you earlier said kids shouldn't be playing, you think kids now learn history solely through Battlefield V.
 
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42. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 11:36 VaranDragon
 
Are you being obtuse on purpose? The point is fairly simple: You make a fun game, out of a serious subject matter. That is already pretty degrading. But then you decide to degrade the meaning of the subject matter even further by partially removing an important part of its history.

How is this not clear?

Instead of portraying the Third Reich as the evil Nazi empire, you now teach "kids" (who barely learn any of this in school) through Battlefield that WWII was just another war against some germans...

That you can play as those germans only reinforces the point that they were some random enemy dudes who lost a war way back when.
 
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41. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 11:05 Beamer
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:39:
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:33:
Lastly, yes, you can play as the bad guys, and you're still playing as German soldiers, just not with a sign that has an enormous amount of power regardless of whether these games use it. It 100% stands for the murder of 6 million Jewish people. Why in the world would a game company want to brand that on its unwilling players? Why? In what world is that a smart, logical decision?

I disagree. It stands for a lot more than the murder of 6 million Jews. It stands for everything that can go wrong with our human race. Releasing a game of this kind, where the point is clearly to destroy the other team is one thing. Making the setting one of the most devastating wars in the history of the human race is another. People take this shit seriously, as everyone should. Self censorship of this kind is not only bad for the reasons I mentioned above, but also because it belittles the event itself, and in my opinion the death of everyone who suffered under the symbol. Self-censorship of this kind is shameful.

Yes, you're right, it stands for everything that can go wrong with our race, so why in the world would you want to force 50% of your players to play under that banner?

If anything, wouldn't that trivialize it? I don't understand how you equate "this is really a bad thing" with "therefore we should put it in really fun games and show people what a blast it can be killing people as a Nazi."

I mean, I really don't understand your connection at all, that taking it out of the multiplayer portion of the game is somehow belittling the event, but keeping it in a game famous for letting people pile onto a horse with flamethrowers is... not belittling?
 
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40. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 10:39 VaranDragon
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:33:
Lastly, yes, you can play as the bad guys, and you're still playing as German soldiers, just not with a sign that has an enormous amount of power regardless of whether these games use it. It 100% stands for the murder of 6 million Jewish people. Why in the world would a game company want to brand that on its unwilling players? Why? In what world is that a smart, logical decision?

I disagree. It stands for a lot more than the murder of 6 million Jews. It stands for everything that can go wrong with our human race. Releasing a game of this kind, where the point is clearly to destroy the other team is one thing. Making the setting one of the most devastating wars in the history of the human race is another. People take this shit seriously, as everyone should. Self censorship of this kind is not only bad for the reasons I mentioned above, but also because it belittles the event itself, and in my opinion the death of everyone who suffered under the symbol. Self-censorship of this kind is shameful.
 
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39. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 10:33 Beamer
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 10:24:
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 07:22:
More importantly, they don't want some kid buying the game then being surprised he has to be a Nazi. It's fine. Why do people want this in multiplayer so badly?

Well, to be the devil's advocate for a change, the game is 18+ only right? So that point about kids playing as Nazis is kind of moot, since they shouldn't be playing the game AT ALL.

One other thing, what kind of point are you trying to make here exactly since Bethesda's Wolfenstein games are clearly single player only?

Also I dont get why its so difficult to understand why people want to play as the BAD guys? I assume you played cowboys and indians when you were a kid? Well I always wanted to play as the indian, even though at the time they were still thought of as the "bad guys". I also rooted for Darth Vader, even though he was clearly a bad guy. Its classic escapism, and its been around since people learned to use their imagination, and there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean that those people are psychos for wanting their virtual fantasy to mimic the real thing as close as possible. I mean the real Nazis used swastikas right? Censoring the symbol is giving them, and it, more myster and power than they should have.

I use "kid" loosely. Anyone buying it should be a bit irked to be forced to be a Nazi.

You're right, Bethesda is making a single player game. I'm not sure if you mean me with the "you," but that's what I was saying - comparing Bethesda, clearly making swastikas a sign of the enemy, to EA and Activision, who are avoiding using it as a sign for the player, seems really, really dumb.

Lastly, yes, you can play as the bad guys, and you're still playing as German soldiers, just not with a sign that has an enormous amount of power regardless of whether these games use it. It 100% stands for the murder of 6 million Jewish people. Why in the world would a game company want to brand that on its unwilling players? Why? In what world is that a smart, logical decision?
 
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38. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 10:24 VaranDragon
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 07:22:
More importantly, they don't want some kid buying the game then being surprised he has to be a Nazi. It's fine. Why do people want this in multiplayer so badly?

Well, to be the devil's advocate for a change, the game is 18+ only right? So that point about kids playing as Nazis is kind of moot, since they shouldn't be playing the game AT ALL.

One other thing, what kind of point are you trying to make here exactly since Bethesda's Wolfenstein games are clearly single player only?

Also I dont get why its so difficult to understand why people want to play as the BAD guys? I assume you played cowboys and indians when you were a kid? Well I always wanted to play as the indian, even though at the time they were still thought of as the "bad guys". I also rooted for Darth Vader, even though he was clearly a bad guy. Its classic escapism, and its been around since people learned to use their imagination, and there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean that those people are psychos for wanting their virtual fantasy to mimic the real thing as close as possible. I mean the real Nazis used swastikas right? Censoring the symbol is giving them, and it, more myster and power than it should have.

Finally, releasing a game of this kind, where the point is clearly to destroy the other team is one thing. Making the setting one of the most devastating wars in the history of the human race is another. People take this shit seriously, as everyone should. Self censorship of this kind is not only bad for the reasons I mentioned above, but also because it belittles the event itself. Self-censorship of this kind is shameful.

This comment was edited on Jun 14, 2018, 10:36.
 
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37. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 07:22 Beamer
 
Slick wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 04:18:
Beamer wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 16:04:
Slick wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 15:57:

The Battlefield reddit right now is I think the worst I've ever seen on the internet, and I've been to the /b board back in it's heyday...

You made me curious, and this is amazing.

It's a fucking shitshow. Makes the worst days on this board look like a double XP announcement on the Hello Kitty Online forum...

It's ridiculous that after all the genuinely interesting (for better or worse) new gameplay and mechanics coming to Battlefield, that the fact that they're including girls as playable characters is evoking such a response. I hate gamers.


I also went into the /games sub, where the biggest thread was saying only Bethesda has the balls to have a swastika, as EA and Activision don't (who knew that having a swastika was a big selling point?)

Someone points out that in Wolfenstein, the Nazis are clearly bad guys, and in single player CoD, the swastika is there, but it's multiplayer that doesn't have it. People downvote him to oblivion for explaining their rational, then make claims that "yeah, but killing people is ok?"

Listen, kids, people buy these games specifically to kill people. They do not buy them to kill people while wearing a swastika on their uniform. If that's what they want, EA and Activision doesn't want them as consumers. More importantly, they don't want some kid buying the game then being surprised he has to be a Nazi. It's fine. Why do people want this in multiplayer so badly?
 
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36. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 05:27 Slick
 
Task wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 17:10:
Slick wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 15:57:
cozying up to North Korea... Most of my faith in humanity is dangling by a fucking thread.

It's a shame about people whining about Battlefield 5 and women in games, but the whole thing with the Caligula being "cozy" to NK is not correct. The whole peace process with North Korea is being driven by South Korea not Caligula, because their people are tired of U.S. belligerence with North Korea. The South Korean president has been the main driver of peace between both sides, especially when SK started to go on their own when Caligula claimed he would "totally destroy North Korea" (I.E. advocating complete genocide).

I have friends that teach in South Korea and there are tons of protesters that want peace. And it's easy to see why, people across the globe can't even begin to understand that they are a common people, with many families in the South cut off from their descendants in the North, and why everything happened up to this point.

I too think the Orange is a Big Man Baby, but people should be happier that South Korea was able to reign him in and get him to do this peace process. Let Koreans find common ground. Moon Jae should be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, not Caligula.

But anyways, this thread quickly turned from E3 to not E3.

I have family teaching in Seoul. I know about the familliar divide they experience. I don't think that SK orchestrated everything, as they were one of the ones blindsided by Trump's assertion that they'd be stopping military readiness drills in the penninsula alongside Japan.

You're definitely giving SK too much credit, and somehow implying that Trump takes his marching orders from SK. He cares about his own legacy above all else, that much is clear.
 
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35. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 04:18 Slick
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 16:04:
Slick wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 15:57:

The Battlefield reddit right now is I think the worst I've ever seen on the internet, and I've been to the /b board back in it's heyday...

You made me curious, and this is amazing.

It's a fucking shitshow. Makes the worst days on this board look like a double XP announcement on the Hello Kitty Online forum...

It's ridiculous that after all the genuinely interesting (for better or worse) new gameplay and mechanics coming to Battlefield, that the fact that they're including girls as playable characters is evoking such a response. I hate gamers.
 
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34. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 03:42 Slick
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 02:19:
Creston wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 17:51:
Slick wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 14:14:
You can do PvE multiplayer... not sure why multiplayer = griefing...

Because you can't JUST do PvE. You can't disable PvP altogether.

And then, you get griefing. Always does. Always will. No matter how much Hines and Howard try to pretend that it won't.

So yay, you can only get killed once, and then the guy can't keep following you around and killing you again. Uh-huh. How is that going to work exactly? By a timer? The griefer will just wait out the timer and come kill you again.

Or by teleporting you away to the other end of the map? Great. A griefer will sit on an important spot for a quest, kill everyone trying to do said part of the quest, and giggle to himself as people now have to walk 30 minutes to get back to that spot.

I have a guy at work who is a hardcore multiplayer guy. Like, he won't even touch single player games anymore, they just bore him. He played an hour of the Witcher 3, for example, but he loves Elder Scrolls Online. To him, if there's nobody to beat in PvP somewhere, a game just serves no purpose.

He has also flat-out stated that he enjoys griefing. He doesn't go nuts about it, like he won't just keep fucking with people until they quit altogether, but he's done the whole "cripple a mp character but don't kill them so they have to crawl" part of griefing etc. He also says that griefing sucks, but DOING the grieving is a lot of fun.

I asked him what he thought about Fallout76, and he said he'd play it. He can't wait until he gets his hands on a nuke to blow people up.


Bethesda's belief that this somehow won't happen is fucking retarded. Everyone will be fighting over those nukes, and it will be a constant, non-stop nuke fest.



I heard the original title was:

Fallout: Eve Online edition

Yeah, I thought we were talking about CyberPunk 77, as that's the only article in this posting that directly referenced multiplayer coming to a game. I wasn't concerned with Fallout, that series bores me.
 
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33. Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 14, 2018, 03:23 Mordecai Walfish
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 14, 2018, 02:47:
Creston wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 17:51:

Bethesda's belief that this somehow won't happen is fucking retarded. Everyone will be fighting over those nukes, and it will be a constant, non-stop nuke fest.

That actually sounds like a lot of fun! A problem with a game where there are NO NPCs is that it doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to make a single player version of it.

So the question is; Will they design compelling enough reason(s) for people to do stuff besides grief in this type of game? Sure some people always will try to, but that's what beta is for, so you can balance the bullshit out. If the game is flat out boring or sucks people are going to revert to grief-festing all the more quicker. I'm looking forward to see what they've come up with in the end, at least.
 
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32. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 02:47 VaranDragon
 
Creston wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 17:51:

Bethesda's belief that this somehow won't happen is fucking retarded. Everyone will be fighting over those nukes, and it will be a constant, non-stop nuke fest.

That actually sounds like a lot of fun! A problem with a game where there are NO NPCs is that it doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to make a single player version of it.
 
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31. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 14, 2018, 02:19 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 17:51:
Slick wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 14:14:
You can do PvE multiplayer... not sure why multiplayer = griefing...

Because you can't JUST do PvE. You can't disable PvP altogether.

And then, you get griefing. Always does. Always will. No matter how much Hines and Howard try to pretend that it won't.

So yay, you can only get killed once, and then the guy can't keep following you around and killing you again. Uh-huh. How is that going to work exactly? By a timer? The griefer will just wait out the timer and come kill you again.

Or by teleporting you away to the other end of the map? Great. A griefer will sit on an important spot for a quest, kill everyone trying to do said part of the quest, and giggle to himself as people now have to walk 30 minutes to get back to that spot.

I have a guy at work who is a hardcore multiplayer guy. Like, he won't even touch single player games anymore, they just bore him. He played an hour of the Witcher 3, for example, but he loves Elder Scrolls Online. To him, if there's nobody to beat in PvP somewhere, a game just serves no purpose.

He has also flat-out stated that he enjoys griefing. He doesn't go nuts about it, like he won't just keep fucking with people until they quit altogether, but he's done the whole "cripple a mp character but don't kill them so they have to crawl" part of griefing etc. He also says that griefing sucks, but DOING the grieving is a lot of fun.

I asked him what he thought about Fallout76, and he said he'd play it. He can't wait until he gets his hands on a nuke to blow people up.


Bethesda's belief that this somehow won't happen is fucking retarded. Everyone will be fighting over those nukes, and it will be a constant, non-stop nuke fest.



I heard the original title was:

Fallout: Eve Online edition
 
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30. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 13, 2018, 23:36 1badmf
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 13, 2018, 13:05:
We watched 50 minutes of uncut Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay and interviewed CD Projekt about it Eurogamer.net.

Cyberpunk 2077 is a mature game intended for a mature audience, CD Projekt said, and as as a result features full frontal nudity.

DAY ONE PURCHASE


plot twist: ALL THE DICKS.
 
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29. Re: It Came from E3 2018, Part 3 Jun 13, 2018, 20:35 bigspender
 
ah lame. Rage 2 would have been great with coop.  
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