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Out of the Blue

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39 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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39. Re: All eyes on Canada Jun 9, 2018, 08:04 Jivaro
 
Creston wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 16:00:
Cutter wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 14:18:
Yeah but pot isn't legal in the Netherlands, it's decriminalized - to a point. Canada will be the first country where it's completely legal.

Potato potato. You will never get arrested for anything pot related in the Netherlands, unless maybe strangling someone to death with it, and even that's debatable.

Probably depends on who you strangle...
 
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38. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 9, 2018, 02:00 NKD
 
It's true that medications can have a side effect of suicidal ideation. It's one of the main negative side effects of some of the most effective anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs. I don't know about anyone elses doctors, but my doctor specifically asks me about suicidal thoughts every time he re-ups my prescription.

But on the other hand, suicide is also often a side effect of not getting treatment for your issues. Whether it's therapy, or medication, or both. The worst thing you can do is ignore your doctor. As long as you don't have a useless pill pusher, they are going to recommend therapy to go with the pills, and your therapist in turn is going to recommend a lot of behavioral changes to help.

For anyone here who suffers, if you're fortunate enough to have access to this kind of care, please take advantage of it.
 
Avatar 43041
 
I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you. Humans are too fucking stupid to listen.
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37. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 9, 2018, 01:28 Strider83
 
I think some of the suicide increase is directly related to the amount of anti-depressants and other medications that people are on. I can't turn on the TV without some lame ad for medications featuring happy graphics and animation every other commercial. I heard the US and only one other country allows commercials of this type. The side effects of these drugs can be pretty severe and I should know. I was diagnosed bipolar at 16 and am now 35 and have been on at least 30 different anti-depressants, mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics and anti-anxiety medications throughout my life. I am now diagnosed with PTSD and an severe anxiety disorder and find exercise and therapy do much more good than any medication I have ever been on. Bourdain seemed like a good guy, I hope he rests in peace.  
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36. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 9, 2018, 00:10 RedEye9
 
opie wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 22:26:
I'd love to see a graph relating the rise in suicides with the decline of the use of organized religion.
Religion is not mentioned in the cdc study.
Some of the things mentioned include loss, substance abuse (opiod epidemic), physical health, firearms, job and legal problems, relationship issues and financial troubles.
 
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Democracy Is Not a Spectator Sport
If You’re Not Scared About Fascism in the U.S., You Should Be
Vote like your rights depend on it
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 23:29 RedEye9
 
opie wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 22:28:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:32:
And we can always thank the 2nd Amendment, nearly half of all suicides were caused by firearms.

other half being mostly pills huh? yeah, those are hard to get.
No, not even close. Poisoning comes in third place.

1. The most common method was firearms at ~49% (Similar to what Jdreyer already stated "A lot of suicides are a one-time effort, so having guns available, for example, makes one more likely to complete suicide")

2. Hanging or suffocation is next with ~25%, ( go ahead and queue up the "Yeah, but rope is hard to get" tired response.)

3. Followed by poisoning with ~16% ( less than 1/3 of poisoning victims having detectable amounts of opiods. Not to mention intentionality is difficult to determine in cases in which a person dies by overdose.) Here is a breakdown of 2012's poisonings http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/drug-poisoning-us

None of the above factual information will change your misconceptions. But at least you know they exist and that you're incorrect in your beliefs.



This comment was edited on Jun 8, 2018, 23:48.
 
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Democracy Is Not a Spectator Sport
If You’re Not Scared About Fascism in the U.S., You Should Be
Vote like your rights depend on it
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34. Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 23:18 Kxmode
 
Blizzard is sending out Beta invites now. Got one.

"You're Invited to the Battle for Azeroth Beta Test!"

 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 — Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 22:57 NKD
 
That's very sad. Reminds me that it's 15 years next week since my father took his own life. Depression takes its toll and sometimes there's just nothing you can do to help.  
Avatar 43041
 
I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you. Humans are too fucking stupid to listen.
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32. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 22:28 opie
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:32:
And we can always thank the 2nd Amendment, nearly half of all suicides were caused by firearms.


other half being mostly pills huh? yeah, those are hard to get.
 
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31. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 22:26 opie
 
I'd love to see a graph relating the rise in suicides with the decline of the use of organized religion. ie. Is people leaving the church inversely related to people committing suicide (due to the lost of fear of the negative effects in the afterlife if you commit suicide).

IMO, there are only two reasons not to do it: the effect on others that love you. the effect it has on your afterlife. take one away, I'd bet it causes suicides to rise.

Not that this would be the only reason for the increase, I mean there are huge social issues, a war for almost 20 years, and 1999 was a damned good time in this country (unlike 2008-2009).
 
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30. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 22:22 Mr. Tact
 
heroin wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 22:02:
A lot of people out there like myself actually want to plan for the end and put an expiration on our lives. My tentative date is 65 - right now I'm 37 will retire at 45-50 and end it at 65. I don't see any reason to continue on with a malfunctioning body and mind. Life is just preparation for the best part, death... 61 is a good age. However, hanging is a little disconcerting which is why the right-to-life aka legal euthanasia movement in the US needs to keep the fight up for a dignified & non-violent delivery to the other-side.
I don't know if there "a lot of people" like that, but certainly some. Count me among them. However, my date is flexible. Based mainly on my health, which is currently fine. Currently loosely looking at 70, turn 56 this year. Barring, of course, the creation of medical nanobots which would give me the body of a 25 year old....
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 22:02 heroin
 
A lot of people out there like myself actually want to plan for the end and put an expiration on our lives. My tentative date is 65 - right now I'm 37 will retire at 45-50 and end it at 65. I don't see any reason to continue on with a malfunctioning body and mind. Life is just preparation for the best part, death... 61 is a good age. However, hanging is a little disconcerting which is why the right-to-life aka legal euthanasia movement in the US needs to keep the fight up for a dignified & non-violent delivery to the other-side.  
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 21:43 Pigeon
 
1badmf wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 17:41:
yeah sounds like the same reason brad delp the lead singer of Boston went. he left a note saying he was a lonely soul, despite his lifetime of success. i'll miss bourdain too. more than most celebs he used his platform to bring awareness to the world's ills while at the same time highlighting every culture's joys through the prism of food. makes you wonder about other people you know who seem so outwardly happy.

pigeon are there warning signs we should look out for in those around us?

Withdraw, (increased) substance use, recklessness, anger, or any sort of sentiments around hopelessness, feelings of being trapped or purposelessness. And obviously any preparations they may be making like purchasing a gun, making a will, just giving away belongings etc.

That said it's hard to know, we don't have windows into people's thoughts, and we may not notice the behavioral changes. A lot of depressed/suicidal people wear a mask, they don't want to be a burden on others or bring them down. There can be a lot of guilt they're carrying over just feeling that way. This is one of the things professionals struggle with because the ability to predict is tenuous at best.

Best advice I can give is to be receptive. It can be scary when someone you care about starts expressing a lack of desire to live, and some of the first reactions one might have is to try to invalidate those feelings by telling the person their life is good and they've got everything going for them. But when you're feeling like crap and someone tells you your feelings are wrong, that's probably going to make you feel more like crap and more isolated. You don't need to agree with conclusions they may reach i.e. life isn't worth living, but try to understand and provide some validation of their feelings of things they maybe experiencing like frustration, anger, and loneliness. And suggest they seek professional help if they aren't already.
 
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 20:35 Mr. Tact
 
It can be very hard to spot suicidal tendencies in people. Basically, if you are not in a close personal relationship with the person you are very unlikely to see or notice any signs, assuming there are any.

The rate isn't going to do anything but go up with baby boomers getting increasingly older.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 19:21 Hoop
 
AB had a razer sharp cynicism at least at the beginning, I thought that was his best stuff, success inevitably took the edge.
Cynicism may get buried with new found celebrity & all that comes with it however that's a personality trait, it never leaves.


 
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Um .. Behind you...
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 18:03 Cutter
 
1badmf wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 17:41:
yeah sounds like the same reason brad delp the lead singer of Boston went. he left a note saying he was a lonely soul, despite his lifetime of success. i'll miss bourdain too. more than most celebs he used his platform to bring awareness to the world's ills while at the same time highlighting every culture's joys through the prism of food. makes you wonder about other people you know who seem so outwardly happy.

pigeon are there warning signs we should look out for in those around us?

It's not that there aren't highs, just more lows than highs. He had an addictive and abusive personality to begin with. As someone who spent most of his life working in restos it's a brutal industry and the guys in the kitchen are a completely different breed - mainly masochistic and I'm not joking in the least. I've always loved cooking and baking but there isn't enough money in the world to entice me to work in a commercial kitchen anywhere. With the exception of executive chefs all of them are overworked and underpaid. And it's such an abusive system that by the time you get to the top you're a seriously jaded and mean bastard yourself. Tony was the classic example of that. He didn't get better until he got out of the industry.

And besides everyone is just assuming this is about depression so far and we don't really know if there was something else going on. Look at Robin Williams everyone assumed the worst but it turns out he was dying by inches with that brain condition. Bourdain was a model of excess. Sooner or later your body ends up paying for those days. I'm in the same boat myself. If I make it another decade I'll consider myself lucky.
 
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"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral. Why? Because anger looks to the good of justice. And if you can live amid injustice without anger, you are immoral as well as unjust" - Thomas Aquinas
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 17:41 1badmf
 
yeah sounds like the same reason brad delp the lead singer of Boston went. he left a note saying he was a lonely soul, despite his lifetime of success. i'll miss bourdain too. more than most celebs he used his platform to bring awareness to the world's ills while at the same time highlighting every culture's joys through the prism of food. makes you wonder about other people you know who seem so outwardly happy.

pigeon are there warning signs we should look out for in those around us?
 
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 16:59 RedEye9
 
Pigeon wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 16:13:
I'm on the research side of psychiatric care, so I'm not intimately involved with treatment, but I do have a lot of contact with people suffering from depression. One of the things that always strikes me is that while they are desperate to feel well again they can see no path to wellness and often, despite them knowing they have been well before, they don't know what not being depressed is. Mood colors the mind, and when you're in the dark all you can see is darkness ahead. Of particular cruelness is that to get out of depression you have to do the things you don't do because your depressed. It's kind of like telling a cancer patient that to stop having cancer they just have to start growing cells instead.

I think with people like Bourdain and Spade it's hard for others to wrap their heads around why. They see them living what in many respects would be the ideal life, but fail to understand that in those moments, when lost in the darkness, it can be impossible to see a life worth living.
very insightful, thanks
 
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Democracy Is Not a Spectator Sport
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 16:33 jdreyer
 
afka Rossini wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 13:59:
Mordecai Walfish wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 13:20:
afka Rossini wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 13:06:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:32:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:22:
Speaking of suicide:

Suicide rates are up 30 percent since 1999, CDC says.

That's crazy. That should constitute a major health crisis right there. I'd be interested to know the causes. I wonder if our increasing social isolation is partly to blame.
Once again drugs and alcohol share some of the blame, 28% had substance abuse issues.
And we can always thank the 2nd Amendment, nearly half of all suicides were caused by firearms.

While I am for gun control legislation to curtail if not eliminate assault style weapons, I think blaming the 2nd Amendment for suicides goes too far. If guns were completely off the table would we then blame razor blades or rope or sleeping pills?

Vast difference between those items with other household uses that many who are consisering suicide may not follow through with given the risks/pain involved, compared to the 'easy-out' button of a trigger pull.
I get what you're saying, but I think if someone is determined to go, they'll find a way. I've always thought if I had really painful terminal cancer, I'd do the sleeping pill/drug route. Besides, my better half would kill me if I got brains and blood all over the carpeting.

Determined to go is going to find a way. However lots of suicides are people who are depressed and have a momentary lapse of judgement. A gun is a push button instant solution. Other methods require more intention, deliberation, and time, time enough to reconsider.
 
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The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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21. Re: All eyes on Canada Jun 8, 2018, 16:29 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 13:31:
Errr, you guys may want to call the Netherlands. I know, I know, it's over there in Europe, and who knows anything about freaking Europe?!

Canada's really not the first country to have legal marijuana. Now, G7 country, then yes, but the title says G7, and then the article says G20. I'm pretty sure NL is in the G20.

*Decides to look it up* Oh look, I guess the whole EU is in the G20.
(Also, why on God's green earth is ITALY in the freaking G7???)

Italy's economy is bigger than Russia's.
 
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The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Jun 8, 2018, 16:28 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:32:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 8, 2018, 12:22:
Speaking of suicide:

Suicide rates are up 30 percent since 1999, CDC says.

That's crazy. That should constitute a major health crisis right there. I'd be interested to know the causes. I wonder if our increasing social isolation is partly to blame.
Once again drugs and alcohol share some of the blame, 28% had substance abuse issues.
Drug and alcohol use have been pretty static for the past two decades, excepting opiods. The economic downturn and resulting insecurity hasn't helped.

And we can always thank the 2nd Amendment, nearly half of all suicides were caused by firearms.
America, fck yeah?
 
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