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Op Ed

Mashable - Steam removed a school shooting game, but there's a bigger problem.
"The darker corners of Steam are flooded with content creators known as "asset flippers." These individuals build whatever they're working on using pre-made assets that have been stitched together, with little or no original work.

Popular, heavily supported game engines — the software tools that are the building blocks of our video games — such as Unity feature an App Store-like interface where content creators can look for shortcuts. So instead of, say, building an art asset for a gas station or an Xbox controller profile for standard first-person shooter controls, a developer can go and download somebody else's version of the same.

The creator of Active Shooter is, according to Valve, one of the more enduring asset flippers on Steam. So the game's removal, and the banning of Revived Games and ACID — the developer and publisher, respectively — isn't a response to toxic content, it's the removal of someone Valve has deemed a dishonest content creator."

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38. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 16:23 YourNick
 
I suppose playing a zombie is like playing an animal devoid of morals.  
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37. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 15:01 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 2, 2018, 13:46:
And, for the record, I'm about to head out for the evening, so if I don't respond to any responses until late tomorrow, it's not because I'm off to a safe space, but because I'm not around.

How dare you have a life. HOW DARE YOU SIR!
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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36. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 14:57 jdreyer
 
YourNick wrote on Jun 2, 2018, 08:54:
Zombies are trying to kill you, unlike students, so that's self defense. SW sounds like a battle as suggested by the name. Not familiar with those other 2, they sound just as bad as active shooter though.

As far as L4D, I was talking about when you play as the zombie.

Just like Active Shooter, L4D lets you play both sides.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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35. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 14:46 YourNick
 
No confusion, strawman claim was just a red herring, crux of the question was without any other issues, would a game like Active shooter would be allowed on Steam (focus was on a red herring, the crux was avoided.) Murdering innocent civilians is allowed in Postal and GTA series probably because that isn't the mission of the game, but a possible activity a player can do.  
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34. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 13:46 Beamer
 
And, for the record, I'm about to head out for the evening, so if I don't respond to any responses until late tomorrow, it's not because I'm off to a safe space, but because I'm not around.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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33. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 13:43 Beamer
 
ventry wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 21:47:
Beamer wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 21:08:
outraged

Poor word choice based upon pure speculation for the purpose of trying to paint yourself in a better light.
I am not "outraged". I am amused/bemused at your double standard.

Freedom of thought but, only when that thought conforms to what you decide is acceptable.

Diversity of everything except diversity of ideas or opinions.

All else must be squashed eh? Comrade ;-)

What double standard?


I am so confused at what you're angry at. And yes, you guys seem angry to use loaded terms.

YouNick asked what would happen if someone remade the game without the copyrighted materials. RedEye called that a strawman. YouNick was confused. I explained that Valve did not remove this for copyrighted materials, they removed it because they had previously banned the publisher from Steam for numerous infringements, including copyrighted materials. There was no copyrighted materials issue with this game, though.

I went on to say that Valve was using that as a way to get around actually addressing this content on their platform, and were another dev/publisher to do a similar game, they'd have to address that. I further explained that Valve would clearly refuse to sell such a game, because it isn't worth the headaches it would bring. While I won't fault the 21 year old Russian kid much, god knows American media has exploited things that would be considered taboo elsewhere, that has little to do with Valve being a US company. Much like literally any company, Valve doesn't want to be involved in certain types of products. You can't walk into Walmart and buy sex toys, you can't go to Amazon and buy KKK robes, and you can't go to Valve and buy something that will drag the corporation into controversy it has little interest in being a part of.


I have no clue what double standard there is in any of that.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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32. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 08:54 YourNick
 
Zombies are trying to kill you, unlike students, so that's self defense. SW sounds like a battle as suggested by the name. Not familiar with those other 2, they sound just as bad as active shooter though.  
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31. Ignored Jun 2, 2018, 08:44 RedEye9
 
ventry wrote:
To view this user's posts click on the username.
Sweety, no one has gone anywhere. But reading what the troglodytes are regurgitating I've found nothing worth a response.
 
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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
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30. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 06:57 ventry
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 2, 2018, 03:25:
Don't you have a long, hard gun to go polish?

What I have in my pants is none of your business.
 
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29. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 03:35 jdreyer
 
YourNick wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 17:40:

A problem with active shooter L4D is that the shooter zombie is basically given a mission to mow down students humans.

A problem with active shooter CoD:MW2 is that the shooter player is basically given a mission to mow down students airline passengers.

A problem with active shooter Hatred is that the shooter murderer is basically given a mission to mow down students innocent civilians.

A problem with active shooter SW:Battlefront is that the shooter stormtrooper is basically given a mission to mow down students rebels.


Added a few more.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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28. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 03:25 jdreyer
 
ventry wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 20:09:
Eirikrautha wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 17:21:
Good luck getting an answer. The reason that you won't get one is that the same people attacking your question can see the penumbra of cognitive dissonance around the possible answers, so they don't want to go down that road. They don't want to say, "Some ideas should not be expressed or should be forcibly suppressed" because we all know where that argument leads.

BRAVO!! Sir/Madame BRAVO!!
Oh look...
Redeye9 and Beamer have run off to their "Safe-Space".

Don't you have a long, hard gun to go polish?
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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27. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 03:23 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 12:41:
YourNick wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 10:41:
Valve mentioned copyrighted material as one of the reasons, but never mentioned the sensitive subject of school shootings.
https://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&boardid=1&threadid=190605&id=1181645

AFAIK a what if statement doesn't even constitute an argument, 'strawman' or otherwise.

No, Valve said that it came from a publisher that had previously been banned from the platform for, amongst other things, publishing copyrighted materials. Also review manipulation and customer abuse.

They did NOT say this game had copyrighted material. Hence why it's a strawman. No one ever once accused this game of using materials it wasn't allowed to.

The better question is what happens if a publisher not banned from the platform puts up the same game, or a similar one. Then Valve would have to piss off the "all censorship is bad" crowd and actually curate their platform. For some reason, people freak out when Valve chooses not to sell a game, but don't seem to mind when Walmart chooses to pull a t-shirt off of its webstore (which operates comparably to Valve.) Basically, video game nerds are often the worst...

Hey man, games are art, man. Removing a game is like, like, like, well it's like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa, man!
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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26. Re: Op Ed Jun 2, 2018, 00:27 Sepharo
 
https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/active-shooter-removed-steam-1202824801/

The full Valve quote from Variety that the Mashable author mangled:
This developer and publisher is, in fact, a person calling himself Ata Berdiyev, who had previously been removed last fall when he was operating as ‘bcInteractive’ and ‘Elusive Team,'” Valve said. “Ata is a troll, with a history of customer abuse, publishing copyrighted material, and user review manipulation. His subsequent return under new business names was a fact that came to light as we investigated the controversy around his upcoming title. We are not going to do business with people who act like this towards our customers or Valve.
Valve added that a broader conversation about Steam’s content policies “is one that we’ll be addressing soon.

And for giggles how Mashable ordered it:

This developer and publisher is, in fact, a person calling himself Ata Berdiyev, who had previously been removed last fall when he was operating as ‘bcInteractive’ and ‘Elusive Team.’"
The statement went on to explain that Valve won't "do business with people who act like this toward our customers or Valve," adding — importantly — that the broader conversation is something "we'll be addressing soon."
The darker corners of Steam are flooded with content creators known as "asset flippers." These individuals build whatever they're working on using pre-made assets that have been stitched together, with little or no original work.

I know the point of the article is criticism of the garbage that's on Steam and that Valve essentially allows it to happen... but damn if he doesn't confuse our poor posters into thinking the school shooting game was removed for copyright infringement.
 
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25. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 21:47 ventry
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 21:08:
outraged

Poor word choice based upon pure speculation for the purpose of trying to paint yourself in a better light.
I am not "outraged". I am amused/bemused at your double standard.

Freedom of thought but, only when that thought conforms to what you decide is acceptable.

Diversity of everything except diversity of ideas or opinions.

All else must be squashed eh? Comrade ;-)
 
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24. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 21:08 Beamer
 
ventry wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 20:09:
Eirikrautha wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 17:21:
Good luck getting an answer. The reason that you won't get one is that the same people attacking your question can see the penumbra of cognitive dissonance around the possible answers, so they don't want to go down that road. They don't want to say, "Some ideas should not be expressed or should be forcibly suppressed" because we all know where that argument leads.

BRAVO!! Sir/Madame BRAVO!!
Oh look...
Redeye9 and Beamer have run off to their "Safe-Space".

Jesus it's Friday night. I didn't run off I'm out.

If any of you could read you'd see my answer is clearly in my final paragraph, but reading would interfere with your being outraged so you refuse.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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23. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 20:09 ventry
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 17:21:
Good luck getting an answer. The reason that you won't get one is that the same people attacking your question can see the penumbra of cognitive dissonance around the possible answers, so they don't want to go down that road. They don't want to say, "Some ideas should not be expressed or should be forcibly suppressed" because we all know where that argument leads.

BRAVO!! Sir/Madame BRAVO!!
Oh look...
Redeye9 and Beamer have run off to their "Safe-Space".
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 17:40 YourNick
 
Ya, the strawman accusation seems to be a red herring (I don't think strawman can even be used on a what if statement anyhow.)

A problem with active shooter is that the shooter is basically given a mission to mow down students.

Contrast with say Postal 2 where you're not given a mission to kill anyone (well at least most of the missions that I know of.) How you conduct business to complete that mission, however, is entirely up to you. I suppose you could complete many (probably not all) the missions relatively peacefully. Similarly many missions in the GTA series. I wonder what would happen if GTA or Postal had a school full of students you could shoot up, doesn't seem much different than mowing people down at the beach.
 
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21. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 17:21 Eirikrautha
 
Good luck getting an answer. The reason that you won't get one is that the same people attacking your question can see the penumbra of cognitive dissonance around the possible answers, so they don't want to go down that road. They don't want to say, "Some ideas should not be expressed or should be forcibly suppressed" because we all know where that argument leads.

The reality here is that expression and offense operate on a sliding continuum. As one increases, so does the potential for the other. Valve took the easy out here (and I don't blame them), because they don't want to be the arbiter of ideas, both for practical and philosophical reasons. Once you admit that some ideas should be suppressed, the next question (which these folks can't answer without piercing their veil of pretend support for freedom of expression) becomes Quis custodiet ipsos custodes...?
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 12:49 YourNick
 
Same what if question, anyone actually scroll down?  
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19. Re: Op Ed Jun 1, 2018, 12:41 Beamer
 
YourNick wrote on Jun 1, 2018, 10:41:
Valve mentioned copyrighted material as one of the reasons, but never mentioned the sensitive subject of school shootings.
https://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&boardid=1&threadid=190605&id=1181645

AFAIK a what if statement doesn't even constitute an argument, 'strawman' or otherwise.

No, Valve said that it came from a publisher that had previously been banned from the platform for, amongst other things, publishing copyrighted materials. Also review manipulation and customer abuse.

They did NOT say this game had copyrighted material. Hence why it's a strawman. No one ever once accused this game of using materials it wasn't allowed to.

The better question is what happens if a publisher not banned from the platform puts up the same game, or a similar one. Then Valve would have to piss off the "all censorship is bad" crowd and actually curate their platform. For some reason, people freak out when Valve chooses not to sell a game, but don't seem to mind when Walmart chooses to pull a t-shirt off of its webstore (which operates comparably to Valve.) Basically, video game nerds are often the worst...
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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38 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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