PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit

PUBG Corporation is suing Epic Games in Korean court, accusing them of copyright infringement in Fortnite for copying the battle royale genre which they did not invent from PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS (thanks BBC News). Here's a bit on the legal stink from the Korea Times:
Korean game developer PUBG, a subsidiary of Bluehole, has filed a copyright violation lawsuit against U.S.-based Epic Games, asking a court to determine whether the latter's "Fortnite" was copied from the former's "PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds."

A PUBG official said Friday that the firm filed an injunction, alleging copyright infringement, with the Seoul Central District Court against Epic Games Korea.

"We filed the suit to protect our copyright in January," said the official.

Released in July last year, "Fortnite," a first-person shooter (FPS) game, has recently become popular around the world, threatening the popularity of "Battlegrounds" that was a great hit in the global game market last year.

When "Fortnite" was first launched, the game only had the "Save the World" mode, at which gamers build walls and defended it. But in September, the firm added the free-to-play "Battle Royale" portion into the game, provoking a plagiarism controversy and allegations that it copied "Battlegrounds" items and user interface (UI).

When the controversy flared in September, Bluehole said in a statement that the firm was mulling ways on how to respond to the claims that core elements and UI of the Battle Royale mode of "Fortnite" seemed to be similar to those of Battlegrounds.

The Korean firm added that it was regrettable that Epic Games, which was a partner of Bluehole, had released a similar game.
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68.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 31, 2018, 09:26
Dev
68.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 31, 2018, 09:26
May 31, 2018, 09:26
Dev
 
Sepharo wrote on May 30, 2018, 23:08:
This doesn't even touch on how big it's been for Amazon and Prime subscriptions via Twitch.
It's kind of amazing how the gaming industry can continually one up themselves with new ways of making lots of money.
But but but! Piracy! All the pirates are pirating fortnight!
j/k
67.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 23:08
67.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 23:08
May 30, 2018, 23:08
 
Dev wrote on May 30, 2018, 22:40:
HoSpanky wrote on May 29, 2018, 12:47:
My favorite part of this is gonna be how Epic will just refuse to help Bluehole fix their shitty game code now. It’s even possible this somehow violates the TOS on the engine license, and they may find themselves with NO game to sell.
That would be hilarious

Nucas wrote on May 29, 2018, 14:53:
dubfanatic wrote on May 29, 2018, 14:32:
As for the desperation aspect, just take a look at their player count since January. That might explain a little bit.

wow, that's no joke, they're hemorrhaging players. wonder why? didn't fortnite BR launch back in autumn?
Because fortnite came out on mobile and started getting insanely popular. Like pokeman popular. Like teachers having to make rules about playing it popular. Like tons of girls are playing it popular. And doesn't hurt that it's free to play on PC. So fortnight is the new hotness right now. I heard it brought in $300 million in micro-transactions in ONE MONTH. Plus they do special events that get themes and are more than tiny changes, like that Thanos event from Marvel universe.

And PUBG is glacially slow on adding content, 3rd map has taken forever. Also not great on monetizing. Like the parachute skin, that's been done in fortnight for months, was just added to PUBG and they only bothered with a single skin. They also aren't doing great on making people want to get rankings and play more competitively, like battlepass on fortnight.

Edit:
Text for your Link
iOS only so far, they have yet to do android and will get a huge bump. They are going to put $100 million into prizes for tourneys, etc

This doesn't even touch on how big it's been for Amazon and Prime subscriptions via Twitch.
It's kind of amazing how the gaming industry can continually one up themselves with new ways of making lots of money.
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66.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 22:40
Dev
66.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 22:40
May 30, 2018, 22:40
Dev
 
HoSpanky wrote on May 29, 2018, 12:47:
My favorite part of this is gonna be how Epic will just refuse to help Bluehole fix their shitty game code now. It’s even possible this somehow violates the TOS on the engine license, and they may find themselves with NO game to sell.
That would be hilarious

Nucas wrote on May 29, 2018, 14:53:
dubfanatic wrote on May 29, 2018, 14:32:
As for the desperation aspect, just take a look at their player count since January. That might explain a little bit.

wow, that's no joke, they're hemorrhaging players. wonder why? didn't fortnite BR launch back in autumn?
Because fortnite came out on mobile and started getting insanely popular. Like pokeman popular. Like teachers having to make rules about playing it popular. Like tons of girls are playing it popular. And doesn't hurt that it's free to play on PC. So fortnight is the new hotness right now. I heard it brought in $300 million in micro-transactions in ONE MONTH. Plus they do special events that get themes and are more than tiny changes, like that Thanos event from Marvel universe.

And PUBG is glacially slow on adding content, 3rd map has taken forever. Also not great on monetizing. Like the parachute skin, that's been done in fortnight for months, was just added to PUBG and they only bothered with a single skin. They also aren't doing great on making people want to get rankings and play more competitively, like battlepass on fortnight.

Edit:
Text for your Link
iOS only so far, they have yet to do android and will get a huge bump. They are going to put $100 million into prizes for tourneys, etc

This comment was edited on May 30, 2018, 22:51.
65.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 16:18
65.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 16:18
May 30, 2018, 16:18
 
Kxmode wrote on May 30, 2018, 14:02:
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 21:50:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 21:43:
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:30:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:23:
So the idea that PUBG "invented" the BR genre is just poppycock.

This is the strawman that fuels the thread.

It's not a strawman argument because I'm not quoting anyone in this thread. I'm piggybacking off of Jim's comments in his video about BlueHole's perception that they invented the genre. (The exceedingly British "poppycock" should be a clue.)

Bluehole is not claiming to have invented the BR genre.
I don't care if it's you, Jim, or anyone else. It's a strawman.
A strawman being a "form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

That's your perception. I wasn't refuting or giving the impression of refuting anyone's comment in this thread. So you can stop insisting that it is.

You yourself are not important in the claim that "PUBG invented the BR genre" is a strawman. I'm not sure why you think that needs to be part of the equation.
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64.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 14:02
Kxmode
 
64.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 14:02
May 30, 2018, 14:02
 Kxmode
 
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 21:50:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 21:43:
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:30:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:23:
So the idea that PUBG "invented" the BR genre is just poppycock.

This is the strawman that fuels the thread.

It's not a strawman argument because I'm not quoting anyone in this thread. I'm piggybacking off of Jim's comments in his video about BlueHole's perception that they invented the genre. (The exceedingly British "poppycock" should be a clue.)

Bluehole is not claiming to have invented the BR genre.
I don't care if it's you, Jim, or anyone else. It's a strawman.
A strawman being a "form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

That's your perception. I wasn't refuting or giving the impression of refuting anyone's comment in this thread. So you can stop insisting that it is.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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63.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 12:42
63.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 12:42
May 30, 2018, 12:42
 
Prez wrote on May 30, 2018, 09:22:
Jonjonz wrote on May 30, 2018, 07:38:
How can this even be copyrighted when it existed in the wild for decades prior, as game variants in all the early multiplayer FPS arena games. Unreal Tournament, Quake, Doom, didn't they all have a last man standing game mode.

That's the main point that the case hinges on, and in my opinion heavily weighs against Bluehole's already slim chances. One thing I have noticed is that although legal systems vary from country to country , one universal concept among most of them is the general adherence to legal precedent. Game mechanics for a long time have been legally allowed to be cribbed from earlier games in the vast najority of circumstances provided the newer game has enough variation to be a transformative work and not a direct copy. Which again I imagine with at least a significant level of certainty is why earlier RTS developers haven't sued in Korean courts over Starcraft's (the most popular game in Korea by a huge margin until only very recently) cribbing of the RTS concept and mechanical specifics lifted directly from earlier RTS games.

It really doesn't though, they're not claiming to have invented BR or last-man-standing. So there's no reason that UT, Quake, Doom or whatever would come into play at all. They're claiming their game has been ripped off in whole, they were criticized for taking legal action against mobile clones that were far more in the realm of look-and-feel copies... there they had a better case, here they don't.
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62.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 09:22
Prez
 
62.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 09:22
May 30, 2018, 09:22
 Prez
 
Jonjonz wrote on May 30, 2018, 07:38:
How can this even be copyrighted when it existed in the wild for decades prior, as game variants in all the early multiplayer FPS arena games. Unreal Tournament, Quake, Doom, didn't they all have a last man standing game mode.

That's the main point that the case hinges on, and in my opinion heavily weighs against Bluehole's already slim chances. One thing I have noticed is that although legal systems vary from country to country , one universal concept among most of them is the general adherence to legal precedent. Game mechanics for a long time have been legally allowed to be cribbed from earlier games in the vast najority of circumstances provided the newer game has enough variation to be a transformative work and not a direct copy. Which again I imagine with at least a significant level of certainty is why earlier RTS developers haven't sued in Korean courts over Starcraft's (the most popular game in Korea by a huge margin until only very recently) cribbing of the RTS concept and mechanical specifics lifted directly from earlier RTS games.

This comment was edited on May 30, 2018, 10:03.
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61.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 07:38
61.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 07:38
May 30, 2018, 07:38
 
How can this even be copyrighted when it existed in the wild for decades prior, as game variants in all the early multiplayer FPS arena games. Unreal Tournament, Quake, Doom, didn't they all have a last man standing game mode.
"Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss." - The Who.
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60.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 06:31
Prez
 
60.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 06:31
May 30, 2018, 06:31
 Prez
 
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 22:44:
Prez wrote on May 29, 2018, 22:34:
Here's one link. Games Reactor Article

""The reason I created Battle Royale in the first place was because I found a lot of the standard shooter games quite boring, especially the competitive games," he said in an interview with PCGamesN."


Admittedly not the best example, but I saw the claims in an editorial video, either by Yongyea, Sid Alpha, or Jim Sterling. Trouble is I can't remember.

He's very clearly talking about the DayZ mod called "Battle Royale" that he created.
Not a claim to have invented the genre.

Fair enough. I didn't realize that was the actual name of the mod. I stand corrected.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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59.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 30, 2018, 02:58
59.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 30, 2018, 02:58
May 30, 2018, 02:58
 
We need someone who has knowledge of South Korean law to weigh in here. Are game mechanics covered under South Korean copyright law? Some here have raised the possibility that this might actually be about code plagiarism. In that case, why would Bluehole not file the suit in the USA, a jurisdiction with very strong laws about plagiarism? Unless someone can read Korean and can access the suit filings (are those even public in South Korea?) we don't really know the details.
58.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:44
58.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:44
May 29, 2018, 22:44
 
Prez wrote on May 29, 2018, 22:34:
Here's one link. Games Reactor Article

""The reason I created Battle Royale in the first place was because I found a lot of the standard shooter games quite boring, especially the competitive games," he said in an interview with PCGamesN."


Admittedly not the best example, but I saw the claims in an editorial video, either by Yongyea, Sid Alpha, or Jim Sterling. Trouble is I can't remember.

He's very clearly talking about the DayZ mod called "Battle Royale" that he created.
Not a claim to have invented the genre.
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57.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:42
57.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:42
May 29, 2018, 22:42
 
Flatline wrote on May 29, 2018, 22:34:
It seems like your entire argument is "Sony/Daybreak 'licensed' concepts from Greene, therefore those concepts are protected under copyright".

No not at all. Please read.
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56.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:34
56.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:34
May 29, 2018, 22:34
 
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:53:
Also this "can't copyright game mechanics!" decree isn't as cut-and-dry as you guys all seem to think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_clone#Legal_aspects

But I'm not saying that Fortnite is a "look-and-feel" clone of PUBG. I believe there is more than enough variation (building walls being the obvious one) to keep Fortnite out of that category. But I believe the approach that Bluehole will take here is along the idea that the sum of all of these game mechanics is what they believe they have copyrighted, not any one individually. The examples I posted screenshots of are things Fortnite absolutely copied from PUBG, H1Z1:KotH, and ARMA2:DayZ:BattleRoyale. It wasn't against copyright to copy those mechanics, it wasn't illegal, but they did copy them, they admitted to copying them as elements of a genre. Where it gets weird is that those particular elements were elements, like I said earlier, that previously had a legal lineage tied up with Brendan Greene. The licensing of the concepts by H1Z1 from Greene will likely be an aspect in the case. Clearly they (Sony/Daybreak) wanted to cover their bases, Epic didn't feel they needed to.

No even with wikipedia this is still pretty much cut and dry.

The reason why Tetris won that is because an average consumer would have difficulty telling the two titles apart. So your argument there, even by your own admission, is basically BS.

It seems like your entire argument is "Sony/Daybreak 'licensed' concepts from Greene, therefore those concepts are protected under copyright".

You could drive an ocean liner through the leaps of logic in that thread. Just because two private entities agree to "license" a "concept" from someone doesn't mean that it rises to legally protected copyright.

Generally speaking I don't like Epic, but in this case I hope they curb stomp Bluehole here.

One thing that seems likely, nobody's probably going to be willing to do business with Greene any more. I certainly wouldn't.
55.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:34
Prez
 
55.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:34
May 29, 2018, 22:34
 Prez
 
Here's one link. Games Reactor Article

""The reason I created Battle Royale in the first place was because I found a lot of the standard shooter games quite boring, especially the competitive games," he said in an interview with PCGamesN."


Admittedly not the best example, but I saw the claims in an editorial video, either by Yongyea, Sid Alpha, or Jim Sterling. Trouble is I can't remember.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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54.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:06
54.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:06
May 29, 2018, 22:06
 
Prez wrote on May 29, 2018, 22:00:
Bluehole is not claiming to have invented the BR genre.
But PUBG devs have made that very claim publicly, and more than once.

Can you link some?
Google is failing me.

edit:
But in my efforts to find it I did run into this article from almost a year ago, but updated today, that makes the same distinctions I'm making:

https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/25/16360568/pubg-fortnite-lawsuit-rip-off

It is easy to both understate and overstate what Copyright protects. Copyright is intended to protect a specific tangible work created by an author for the economic benefit of the author. However, it does not prohibit others from creating a work relying on the same ideas and concepts, provided it doesn’t knowingly borrow copyrightable elements. Copyright has to balance the interest of one content creator against the interests of many. In an effort to maintain that balance, ideas and concepts aren’t protected.

[...]

“Can you imagine a world where there was only ONE RTS game, ONE FPS game, ONE MMO game?” a developer could ask. The intention of copyright is not to grant a monopoly over content creation. It is literally an exclusive right to copy that work, and thus only grants a monopoly to the specific, tangible creative work in question. So infringement requires more than a simple resemblance: it requires both 1) access to the original work (the alleged infringer actually has to borrow from the original work, so independent origin is a perfectly valid defense); and 2) a substantial taking from copyrightable elements of the original. And it can’t be one or two elements — the quality and quantity of a taking need to be significant to qualify as infringement.

Again, I don't really think Bluehole has a winnable case here. But this is the route they're going to take... maaybe a settlement in the end.
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53.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 22:00
Prez
 
53.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 22:00
May 29, 2018, 22:00
 Prez
 
Bluehole is not claiming to have invented the BR genre.

In the lawsuit, apparently it isn't. But PUBG devs have made that very claim publicly, and more than once. There is also a separate lawsuit that they filed against a Chinese developer who made 2 mobile games that copied PUBG for their games. The level of delusion they are operating under becomes pretty clear when you read some of the stuff they are claiming to own. They literally try to claim ownership of the concept of using a frying pan as a melee weapon in a shooter. I don't know how anyone in their right minds can claim that AND find a lawyer willing to actually argue that point in court. It's utterly baffling. In that context, I wouldn't be surprised were they to claim they own the 3rd Person shooter concept as well.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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52.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 21:50
52.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 21:50
May 29, 2018, 21:50
 
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 21:43:
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:30:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:23:
So the idea that PUBG "invented" the BR genre is just poppycock.

This is the strawman that fuels the thread.

It's not a strawman argument because I'm not quoting anyone in this thread. I'm piggybacking off of Jim's comments in his video about BlueHole's perception that they invented the genre. (The exceedingly British "poppycock" should be a clue.)

Bluehole is not claiming to have invented the BR genre.
I don't care if it's you, Jim, or anyone else. It's a strawman.
A strawman being a "form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."
Avatar 17249
51.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 21:43
Kxmode
 
51.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 21:43
May 29, 2018, 21:43
 Kxmode
 
Sepharo wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:30:
Kxmode wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:23:
So the idea that PUBG "invented" the BR genre is just poppycock.

This is the strawman that fuels the thread.

It's not a strawman argument because I'm not quoting anyone in this thread. I'm piggybacking off of Jim's comments in his video about BlueHole's perception that they invented the genre. (The exceedingly British "poppycock" should be a clue.)
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
50.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 20:53
50.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 20:53
May 29, 2018, 20:53
 
Prez wrote on May 29, 2018, 20:52:
No, what's fueling the thread is the ridiculous notion that you can claim copyright on game mechanics. That's ludicrous. If that were the case a dozen developers of older games can in turn sue Bluehole for what they lifted from those older games. Copyrighting the idea of parachuting out of a plane is so insane I have to admit when I first read your post I thought you were being satirical.

I can see that if you think that's what I said...
But I didn't say anything about the copyrighting of parachuting out of a plane.

...

Also this "can't copyright game mechanics!" decree isn't as cut-and-dry as you guys all seem to think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_clone#Legal_aspects

But I'm not saying that Fortnite is a "look-and-feel" clone of PUBG. I believe there is more than enough variation (building walls being the obvious one) to keep Fortnite out of that category. But I believe the approach that Bluehole will take here is along the idea that the sum of all of these game mechanics is what they believe they have copyrighted, not any one individually. The examples I posted screenshots of are things Fortnite absolutely copied from PUBG, H1Z1:KotH, and ARMA2:DayZ:BattleRoyale. It wasn't against copyright to copy those mechanics, it wasn't illegal, but they did copy them, they admitted to copying them as elements of a genre. Where it gets weird is that those particular elements were elements, like I said earlier, that previously had a legal lineage tied up with Brendan Greene. The licensing of the concepts by H1Z1 from Greene will likely be an aspect in the case. Clearly they (Sony/Daybreak) wanted to cover their bases, Epic didn't feel they needed to.

This comment was edited on May 29, 2018, 21:13.
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49.
 
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit
May 29, 2018, 20:52
Prez
 
49.
Re: PUBG vs Fortnite Lawsuit May 29, 2018, 20:52
May 29, 2018, 20:52
 Prez
 
No, what's fueling the thread is the ridiculous notion that you can claim copyright on game mechanics. That's ludicrous. If that were the case a dozen developers of older games can in turn sue Bluehole for what they lifted from those older games. Copyrighting the idea of parachuting out of a plane is so insane I have to admit when I first read your post I thought you were being satirical.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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