Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - RSS Headlines   RSS Headlines   Twitter   Twitter
View
36 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >


36. Re: Morning Metaverse May 24, 2018, 13:22 Orogogus
 
Scheherazade wrote on May 24, 2018, 09:59:
You speak in hyperbole. By extension, every time a leader speaks with a foreign dignitary and/or considers their requests, he is compromised. Foreign relations would be impossible.

None of the things you mention are at all uncommon for many of our closest allies, and we're quite happy to look the other way.

Invading nations is not even worth mentioning, when we are the world leader in that metric.

Your post smacks of 'do as I say, not as I do'. At some point, we have to be honest about world affairs, and just accept that everyone is some degree of asshole.

-scheherazade

I'm inclined to agree about the invasions and election meddling, but less so about murdering political rivals. Everyone is some degree of asshole, but in Russia's case that degree is "a lot." It's a totalitarian regime that doesn't answer to its people and imprisons and murders dissenters at home and abroad, and it's not our friend. The UK and Germany don't want to see the US taken out of world affairs and its economy in shambles. Russia and China would like that. I think it's naive to believe that they meddle in our elections with the goal of improving diplomatic relations, rather than actively working to the detriment of the US. By your own description, the US has screwed over countries by meddling in their elections; how is it likely to turn out better if we let Russia do it to us?

It wasn't too long ago that moral equivalency was a right wing sneer against the left. Everyone does bad things, so you can't say anyone's worse than anyone else. But again, "evil empire" wasn't something the liberals came up with, and the same guys are still in charge over there.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

35. Re: Morning Metaverse May 24, 2018, 09:59 Scheherazade
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on May 23, 2018, 22:59:
Wow, I didn't realize we had accounts on here taken over by Russian spammers?

Scheherazade - Putin has literally murdered his political rivals, invaded other sovereign nations, and you are defending him? Organized attempts by Russian intelligence services to alter the US election process are deliberate acts of war. The US government is definitely guilty of many crimes, but that doesn't excuse any transgressions by Russia.

Not really surprising at all that you think a US President being compromised by Russian intelligence services is no big deal, because hey, it "helps everyone."

I'm glad you outed yourself, although it's a shame we can't escape this propaganda shit even on a video game site.

You speak in hyperbole. By extension, every time a leader speaks with a foreign dignitary and/or considers their requests, he is compromised. Foreign relations would be impossible.



None of the things you mention are at all uncommon for many of our closest allies, and we're quite happy to look the other way.

Invading nations is not even worth mentioning, when we are the world leader in that metric.

Your post smacks of 'do as I say, not as I do'. At some point, we have to be honest about world affairs, and just accept that everyone is some degree of asshole.

-scheherazade

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

34. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 22:59 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
Wow, I didn't realize we had accounts on here taken over by Russian spammers?

Scheherazade - Putin has literally murdered his political rivals, invaded other sovereign nations, and you are defending him? Organized attempts by Russian intelligence services to alter the US election process are deliberate acts of war. The US government is definitely guilty of many crimes, but that doesn't excuse any transgressions by Russia.

Not really surprising at all that you think a US President being compromised by Russian intelligence services is no big deal, because hey, it "helps everyone."

I'm glad you outed yourself, although it's a shame we can't escape this propaganda shit even on a video game site.
 
Avatar 54863
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

33. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 22:48 Beamer
 
wtf_man wrote on May 23, 2018, 20:12:
Scheherazade wrote on May 23, 2018, 13:14:

Also, I didn't vote for Trump. Or Hillary. Because I think they are both shit candidates.
Trump is a man child and I can't trust him to think things through, and Hillary is so hawkish that I can't trust her not to take stupid risks.

I would have voted Bernie. Because why not. Try something new for a change.
The guy seemed very mild on a per-issue basis. Pro public healthcare, not an anti-gunner, etc. A decent straddler.


-scheherazade

Here's the funny thing... even though I completely disagree with funding social programs, I probably would have strongly considered voting for Bernie too. (Even though I'm saying he is far left, IMO)

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2018, 12:58:
If we were taxed "most of our income," there'd be fairly large economic impacts. What matters isn't so much what you take home, but what you take home relative to your neighbor. If you took home $10,000 after taxes, but your neighbors took home $100,000, you're poor. If you took home $10,000, and so did everyone else, then $10,000 isn't poor and you'd see prices adjust to accommodate that.

Uh no.

What matters is what one takes home for their reflective occupation. A doctor shouldn't have the same take home pay as a burger flipper. Nor should a doctor be punished for being an achiever. Why should a Doctor that pays out the rear for malpractice insurance, went to school for 12 years, and saves lives be severely punished making over 250k? Any professional occupation for that matter. One educates themselves and strives to get the experience necessary for a good income then get it taken away? Why?

Income tax needs to just go away. Period. Replace it with something(s) that isn't (aren't) income related. People shouldn't be punished for working. Spread it out with property, consumption, and possibly a type of VAT. No loopholes. No deductions. Take away the feeling that ones earnings are being taken away and put towards things they disagree with funding.

You know how marginal rates work, no? It doesn't punish you for making more by any stretch. Don't want to condescend, but to use punish makes me think you don't get marginal rates. It's ok, I find most don't.

Also, income tax is all that fights wealth inequality. Those with wealth decide how much those without earn. As income tax fell, they passed on less. Consumption sounds great, but Seattle had that. I was a guy in my early 30s, single, making over $200k. A family of 4 making $40k spent far more than me. Therefore they paid well more in taxes. Hardly seems fair.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

32. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 22:38 Rilcon
 
A doctor shouldn't have the same take home pay as a burger flipper. Nor should a doctor be punished for being an achiever. Why should a Doctor that pays out the rear for malpractice insurance, went to school for 12 years, and saves lives be severely punished making over 250k? Any professional occupation for that matter. One educates themselves and strives to get the experience necessary for a good income then get it taken away? Why?

They do get that taken away, though, thanks to student debt. Unless they were born to rich parents, of course.

Under the horrifying curse of a slightly more socialist system, their studies would be paid by the state assuming they had good enough grades, and then they could go directly into making plenty of money without spending the next 20-30 years paying off debt.

Oh, and also helping people, but that seemed pretty secondary to making mad cash in your doctor example...
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

31. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 20:12 wtf_man
 
Scheherazade wrote on May 23, 2018, 13:14:

Also, I didn't vote for Trump. Or Hillary. Because I think they are both shit candidates.
Trump is a man child and I can't trust him to think things through, and Hillary is so hawkish that I can't trust her not to take stupid risks.

I would have voted Bernie. Because why not. Try something new for a change.
The guy seemed very mild on a per-issue basis. Pro public healthcare, not an anti-gunner, etc. A decent straddler.


-scheherazade

Here's the funny thing... even though I completely disagree with funding social programs, I probably would have strongly considered voting for Bernie too. (Even though I'm saying he is far left, IMO)

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2018, 12:58:
If we were taxed "most of our income," there'd be fairly large economic impacts. What matters isn't so much what you take home, but what you take home relative to your neighbor. If you took home $10,000 after taxes, but your neighbors took home $100,000, you're poor. If you took home $10,000, and so did everyone else, then $10,000 isn't poor and you'd see prices adjust to accommodate that.

Uh no.

What matters is what one takes home for their reflective occupation. A doctor shouldn't have the same take home pay as a burger flipper. Nor should a doctor be punished for being an achiever. Why should a Doctor that pays out the rear for malpractice insurance, went to school for 12 years, and saves lives be severely punished making over 250k? Any professional occupation for that matter. One educates themselves and strives to get the experience necessary for a good income then get it taken away? Why?

Income tax needs to just go away. Period. Replace it with something(s) that isn't (aren't) income related. People shouldn't be punished for working. Spread it out with property, consumption, and possibly a type of VAT. No loopholes. No deductions. Take away the feeling that ones earnings are being taken away and put towards things they disagree with funding.
 
Avatar 19499
 



Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

30. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 17:54 Orogogus
 
Russia paid for ads on both sides of the fence on numerous issues, as their apparent goal is to fan divisiveness in the US. They do favor Trump overall, but probably for the same reason as my classmates who moved to China -- they figured Trump was bad for the US, and what's bad for the US is good for China. I think it's foolish to think that Russia or China mean the US well. We can deal with them, but it's in their interest and against ours to see the US weakened. That we've done the same thing doesn't mean we should help anyone do it to us.

What's bad about Russia: state-run media, imprisons and murders dissenters. It's a totalitarian state. It was gutsy for Reagan to call the USSR an evil empire, wasn't it?

The Stormy Daniels affair and possibly even the campaign finance violations wouldn't be an issue except that they keep lying about it. Trump says he never had sex with her, he never knew about any payments, he didn't use campaign money. He did. The whole Bill Clinton/Lewinsky thing was supposedly about him lying about it (although sex with your interns is significantly skeezier), but it's a different time now.

People call Trump racist for a lot of reasons. Him saying that there were a lot of fine people among the white nationalists in Charlottesville sticks out to me a lot more than immigration policy. And the birther crap before his presidency. No one is advocating an open border, and the controversy isn't about how many H1Bs we're handing out, it's about the methods employed. Splitting up families, deporting people who grew up here, sending refugees away. It does seem to encourage racism; Fox News comments immediately lash out at anyone with a Hispanic family name. There's not a lot of reasoned debate.

And looking to the past seems to vindicate pro-immigration rather than anti-. The Italians, the Irish, the Germans and everyone else took jobs, but they integrated and contributed to the country. The anti-immigration people back then do look like xenophobic racists now; they got some momentum, won a few elections and were swept away by history. I don't think there's anyone who looks back and says the US would have been better off if we'd kept the Germans out.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

29. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 15:52 MisterBenn
 
Awesome post scheherazade. I think I basically agree with your perspective on all of that.  
Avatar 56105
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

28. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 13:14 Scheherazade
 
Left and right are so relative that the terms don't mean anything outside any one nation.

China is "Communist" - Considered "Left" leaning - and has no working social safety net (wealthier cities have their own systems), and has turn-of-the-century-us style robber baron capitalist economy with little worker protection.

Russia was "Communist" - Considered "Left" leaning - and had a strong social safety net, with guaranteed jobs, guaranteed good wages, unfireable workers, and no concern for individual worker performance. (Sounds nothing like China, right?)

US is "Capitalist" - Considered "Right" leaning - has a nation wide social safety net, and has worker rights laws, etc.

Labels just don't mean anything outside of their own local context.




Any political ism, be it Fascism or Communism or whatever, are different in concept than they are in application.

In application, German/Italian Fascism is a cult of leadership, with a government that tightly partners with industry leadership (and the church).

In application, Russian Communism is universal government employment, with a goal of distributed committee leadership ... but with the 'temporary, just until we finish reorganizing' organizational hierarchy becoming 'permanent'.







Regarding the article, my pet peeve about Russia and the media :

Russia is not as bad as the TV says they are.
Let's list some crap from TV :

- Crying about Russia trying to influence our elections (even though it's U.S. standard practice to influence elections around the world) (Aside... 'Russian political advertising: Destroying democracy!' 'Clinton and DNC Rigging primaries: Oh whatever!' Feels like some twilight zone shit.)

- Placing missiles near Russia's border, pretending they are to protect Europe from Iran, even though they are on the far side of Europe from Iran. (Might as well call Russia retarded to their face)

- Crying about Russia helping Ossetia gain independence from Georgia (even though we demanded Russia give Georgia independence. Ignoring the Georgian massacres of 2000 unarmed (and army-less) Ossetian civilians per day).

- Crying about Russia nuclear bomber patrols resuming (even though we never ended our own nuclear bomber patrols)

- Crying about Russian laws banning gay content in the media (even though we support the new Ukraine coup govt with 2 major parties, one of which is a neo nazi group ("Right Sector") with a mission statement of exterminating gays and ethnic purity) (Lol - _Actual_ fascists running EU approved Ukraine. With the Mussolini style arm bands and the color scheme and everything.)

- Crying about Russia helping Crimea vote for independence, and helping the Donetsk region. While being quiet about a lot of factors from BEFORE Russian intervention :

*Ukraine government made using the Russian language illegal (for a time, until people revolted), criminalizing a large part of the country where roads/names/schools/business/etc were all in Russian.

*Ukraine was crawling with nationalist gangs that were attacking ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens, and the Ukraine government was OK with it.

The kernel of the problems in Ukraine is this : Part of the country identifies with Europe, part of the country identifies with Russia, and part self identifies but hates Russia more than they dislike Europe.
The borders are made up, and don't take into account which areas are which identity. (eg. Crimea was Russia since 1779, when the Mongol empire fell - till the 1950's. People living there were either born Russian, or are kids of people who were.)
The people that identify as Ukrainian, don't care about what the ethnic Russian areas want.
The people that identify as Russian, don't care about what the ethnic Ukrainian areas want.
When the Government got along too well with Russia, and made more economic ties to the east and walked away from the EU, the ethnic Ukrainians got mad at ethnic Russians for having influence in Ukraine (even though they are Ukr citizens, too). 'Ukraine for Ukrainians Goddamit'.
Pressure swung the other way. The government caved to nationalist pressure, and started to shit on ethnic Russians. So ethnic Russians got mad at ethnic Ukrainians for persecuting them.
When all is said and done, the results (Ukraine partition) are the best they could be. Ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians each get to live how they want. The people of each region get to run their own affairs without having to be subjects of the other region. In essence Democracy. Any sort of unity would just lead to one group getting screwed by the other, because they want different things.

- Even farther back in Afghanistan, Crying about Russian intervention, even though the Afghan government asked Russia to come in and help stop the Islamic revolution. And the eventual coup only happened after Islamists had infiltrated the Afghan government (assassinations, feeding Islamic forces intelligence, etc).



Russia does what it does for reasons.
If someone punched you, and you punched them back, and the only thing people ever talked about was your response, you would look like a dick, too.

Russia trying to help a candidate that is *GASP* willing to get along with them, is completely reasonable. You would expect as much from any nation.
We certainly do similar election influencing world wide, so what's the fuss about?
It's just how the game is played.





I understand that a lot of people don't like Trump, and are willing to conflate 'getting along with Russia' with anti-American activity... but that's really a stretch.
Forming trade relations, restoring adoptions, is not anti-American. It helps everyone.

Spinning his potential-depending-on-interpretation campaign finance violations into something more is no less a stretch.
That is after all the gist of the Russian investigation :
- Law bans getting money from foreign entities.
- If he got info from Russia, then that info is worth something, so it's like getting money from Russia.
- So, if they can show useful Russian info, they can assign a dollar value to the info, and say that amount was badly financed.

Same with Stormy. If you can argue that her (legally purchased) silence has a positive effect on the campaign, then the money should have been logged as campaign spending.

You can nit pick any campaign and bury them under the weight of assigning money the wrong color.


People love to call him a racist for restricting immigration.
But would you like to give up your tech job to an H1B?
How about your blue collar job to a low skill immigrant?
Everyone that shows up willing to do your job for less, is a risk to your livelihood.
A lot of people are poor and in low demand. Median _individual_ income is around 26k/yr. Half the country makes less.
If you are on the low end, immigration is scary. Doesn't matter where the immigrants come from. You can look to the past for proof (Italians, Irish, etc. Each wave took jobs, and was vilified at the time)
At some point, folks need to understand that people need to eat. Dismissing their economic fears as racism just kicks the problem down the road, and one day you end up surprised with shit like Brexit.


I feel like people are too busy hating on the guy to zoom out and consider things with wider perspective. When I pay attention to Democrat leaning media, it feels like a bizzaro world echo chamber - it's like what Republican leaning media used to sound like some years ago.
The bizzaro just flipped.
Then when you look at popular social movements on the left in recent years, it's icing on the fruit cake.
( Protests like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRBodKsgTA and this great piece by Bill Maher : https://videosift.com/video/New-Rule-Stop-Apologizing )





Also, I didn't vote for Trump. Or Hillary. Because I think they are both shit candidates.
Trump is a man child and I can't trust him to think things through, and Hillary is so hawkish that I can't trust her not to take stupid risks.

I would have voted Bernie. Because why not. Try something new for a change.
The guy seemed very mild on a per-issue basis. Pro public healthcare, not an anti-gunner, etc. A decent straddler.


-scheherazade

This comment was edited on May 23, 2018, 13:37.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

27. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 12:58 Beamer
 
wtf_man wrote on May 23, 2018, 12:37:
Rilcon wrote on May 22, 2018, 21:10:
Your scale is very poorly calibrated. By EU standards, Bernie is centre-right, and California is by no means "far left"; even Poland in its current state is further left.

It really pays for people to gain perspective of how other nations operate; the world is not the US.

I'm not comparing the rest of the world. I couldn't care less about the rest of the world. Being taxed most of your income in some countries in the EU is not the pattern to follow. (Which Bernie wants in his "Swedish-US utopia")

By this Country's standards, Mr. Sanders is far left. (Obliviously not by California standards, which is also far left compared to the rest of the country).

As for the 5th largest economy that someone mentioned... that's a laugh... and being the "biggest donor"... If California were to really secede, it would go bankrupt as soon as all federal moneys and agencies are pulled. Especially with an over 420 Billion Dollar Deficit. Then as they tax the tech companies even more to make up for the loss... they'll flee to other states... especially if there's a trade tariff with California being it's own country.

So keep on increasing those welfare checks and recipients, California... you'll go far. Oh, and let's not forget the million dollar houses in the slum areas of Oakland. LOL

If we were taxed "most of our income," there'd be fairly large economic impacts. What matters isn't so much what you take home, but what you take home relative to your neighbor. If you took home $10,000 after taxes, but your neighbors took home $100,000, you're poor. If you took home $10,000, and so did everyone else, then $10,000 isn't poor and you'd see prices adjust to accommodate that. If you took home $1,000,000 but everyone else took home $100,000,000, the hyper-inflation would leave you poor.

Honest question: did you ever read Bernie's tax plan? He wanted to raise taxes ~2% on people making under $250,000. That doesn't sound like "most of your income." That's $20 on every $1000 you earn. Now, he did want to tax income above $250,000 by quite a bit, including taxing any income over $10,000,000 by ~55%.

Then again, under Eisenhower, people earning what's ~$2,000,000 paid 91% above that. So, unless Eisenhower is basically a love-child between Marx and Stalin himself, Bernie really wasn't all that much of a hypersocialist and the fear tactics people used against him worked wonderfully. Because, honestly, how was a Republican that had been a General and had Nixon as his VP a hypersocialist? His tax brackets were nearly double Bernie's proposal.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

26. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 12:37 wtf_man
 
Rilcon wrote on May 22, 2018, 21:10:
Your scale is very poorly calibrated. By EU standards, Bernie is centre-right, and California is by no means "far left"; even Poland in its current state is further left.

It really pays for people to gain perspective of how other nations operate; the world is not the US.

I'm not comparing the rest of the world. I couldn't care less about the rest of the world. Being taxed most of your income in some countries in the EU is not the pattern to follow. (Which Bernie wants in his "Swedish-US utopia")

By this Country's standards, Mr. Sanders is far left. (Obliviously not by California standards, which is also far left compared to the rest of the country).

As for the 5th largest economy that someone mentioned... that's a laugh... and being the "biggest donor"... If California were to really secede, it would go bankrupt as soon as all federal moneys and agencies are pulled. Especially with an over 420 Billion Dollar Deficit. Then as they tax the tech companies even more to make up for the loss... they'll flee to other states... especially if there's a trade tariff with California being it's own country.

So keep on increasing those welfare checks and recipients, California... you'll go far. Oh, and let's not forget the million dollar houses in the slum areas of Oakland. LOL
 
Avatar 19499
 



Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

25. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 08:00 Bub
 
Most of you don't know jack about what Fascism is.

Eisenhower recognized it early on, warning about the emerging military and industrial (i.e. multinational corporations) complex.

The new Fascism is run by a strong military industrial complex that chooses puppet presidents, and now after dumbing down the US population (education has been in decline for decades), can pretty much do what it pleases.

Oligarchs run the world, China, the US, and Russia are all run by the same group of Oligarchs and Multinationals. Congress is just a low budget fake reality show.


 
Avatar 58208
 



==================================================
Bubb Stubbley
... I miss BBS..
"There is a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum
==================================================
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

24. Re: Morning Metaverse May 23, 2018, 00:21 eRe4s3r
 
Orogogus wrote on May 22, 2018, 21:19:
eRe4s3r wrote on May 22, 2018, 20:54:
Not to disagree with you but fascists is an odd phrase to use here. Fascism is all about a system that exalts nation and often race above the individual. That's not even remotely what goes on in the United states. Right wing parties are generally considered conservatives for a reason. "less state" aka, "less system" is not a fascist demand, it's a conservative demand. Someone like Trump and the Republicans are literally the anti-christ to fascists. Especially Trump, who doesn't put a system above the individual, he puts *himself* above the system and the nation.

All I am really saying is, don't call something fascism when it ain't.

In the modern US, less and more state isn't the axis that divides the two major parties. If you're a corporation or a gun, then the Republicans are generally in favor of less government control (but also see Trump vs. Amazon, where he's proposing that companies he doesn't like should pay more). But in the fields of abortion, the military, law enforcement, border control, what language you're allowed to speak, or media reporting, they're a lot more pro-government. They're more in favor of compulsory nationalist gestures like the pledge of allegiance or standing for the national anthem. The social conservative label in no way implies an individual that would prefer the federal government to leave issues to the states or municipalities.

I disagree about Trump being anti-fascist because of his self-importance. His running slogan was "Make America Great Again." I don't know how much of this gets out to Germany, but American exceptionalism is a right wing thing in the US -- if you talk about anything bad the US has ever done it's because you hate America, and man is the rest of the world ungrateful for the US saving everyone in WW2. I don't think Republican and Trump policies are good for the US, but nationalism and race are a large part of why he was elected.

Sounds pretty dismal. Would still not call Trump fascist, maybe we could settle on him being an Imperialist though
 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

23. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 22:32 NKD
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 22, 2018, 20:54:
"less state" aka, "less system" is not a fascist demand, it's a conservative demand. Someone like Trump and the Republicans are literally the anti-christ to fascists. Especially Trump, who doesn't put a system above the individual, he puts *himself* above the system and the nation.

All I am really saying is, don't call something fascism when it ain't.

Modern GOP has jack shit to do with "less state" IMHO. They just want less regulation and more immunity for corporate malfeasance so they can make more money. Their goal is to have an industry insider in charge of every regulatory body essentially acting as regulatory capture.

I agree that the GOP are not fascists though. They glommed on to this populist shit of Trump's merely for opportunistic reasons. I think they are more accurately described as Theocrats. They are way too cozy with the Evangelicals and if they had their way our country would be a disgusting mix of corporate greed and religious hypocrisy, even more so than it already is.

Trump himself would be a fascist, if the system allowed for it. He relies heavily on nationalism and imaginary bogeymen.
 
Avatar 43041
 



"Fuck off, bard." -Geralt of Rivia
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

22. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 21:19 Orogogus
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 22, 2018, 20:54:
Not to disagree with you but fascists is an odd phrase to use here. Fascism is all about a system that exalts nation and often race above the individual. That's not even remotely what goes on in the United states. Right wing parties are generally considered conservatives for a reason. "less state" aka, "less system" is not a fascist demand, it's a conservative demand. Someone like Trump and the Republicans are literally the anti-christ to fascists. Especially Trump, who doesn't put a system above the individual, he puts *himself* above the system and the nation.

All I am really saying is, don't call something fascism when it ain't.

In the modern US, less and more state isn't the axis that divides the two major parties. If you're a corporation or a gun, then the Republicans are generally in favor of less government control (but also see Trump vs. Amazon, where he's proposing that companies he doesn't like should pay more). But in the fields of abortion, the military, law enforcement, border control, what language you're allowed to speak, or media reporting, they're a lot more pro-government. They're more in favor of compulsory nationalist gestures like the pledge of allegiance or standing for the national anthem. The social conservative label in no way implies an individual that would prefer the federal government to leave issues to the states or municipalities.

I disagree about Trump being anti-fascist because of his self-importance. His running slogan was "Make America Great Again." I don't know how much of this gets out to Germany, but American exceptionalism is a right wing thing in the US -- if you talk about anything bad the US has ever done it's because you hate America, and man is the rest of the world ungrateful for the US saving everyone in WW2. I don't think Republican and Trump policies are good for the US, but nationalism and race are a large part of why he was elected.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

21. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 21:10 Rilcon
 
wtf_man wrote on May 22, 2018, 13:33:
Rilcon wrote on May 22, 2018, 13:13:
Anyone that thinks there's a "far left" in the US with any semblance of power of influence is a colossal fuckwit. People that've so much as stepped foot on any of the majority of "western" nations with actual political spread could comfortably argue there's no such thing as an actual "left" in the US at all.

Uh... California in general, is definitely far left, and mostly out of touch with the rest of the country.
Pelosi, Waters, Feinstien, Moonbeam... Far left pretty much in power. And the moron Berkeley brats don't think they are Left "enough". Meanwhile the more rural areas are trying to succeed from their own state, while a good chunk of the Californian Middle class are fleeing the State.

Bernie... admits he's a socialist. Socialist = far left. Period.

Not sure where you are getting that there are no far left folks in power.

Call me a colossal fuckwit if you wish... but I didn't even get started on the far right folks that are in power.

/shrug

Your scale is very poorly calibrated. By EU standards, Bernie is centre-right, and California is by no means "far left"; even Poland in its current state is further left.

It really pays for people to gain perspective of how other nations operate; the world is not the US.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

20. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 20:54 eRe4s3r
 
Saboth wrote on May 22, 2018, 14:46:
Much of what is going on in the world is being caused by those in power creating artificial shortages of food, pay, housing, etc. The people at the bottom have to fight tooth and nail for any tiny gain.

The fascists show up and blame all of these problems on "the others". The Mexicans, the black people, the Muslims...anyone who is not "you" has caused your housing costs to rise or your pay to fall, or your healthcare costs to rise.

When, in fact, all of these problems are being caused by plutocratic control of our government. We are told there is "no money" for housing, food, education, roads. Meanwhile, the rich sit on 85 trillion dollars. We just voted to give them another 1.5 trillion while our government has a budget DEFICIT. Insanity. The country is being pillaged by those at the top, and low-information right wingers think they need to worry about a few million immigrants and building a wall.




Not to disagree with you but fascists is an odd phrase to use here. Fascism is all about a system that exalts nation and often race above the individual. That's not even remotely what goes on in the United states. Right wing parties are generally considered conservatives for a reason. "less state" aka, "less system" is not a fascist demand, it's a conservative demand. Someone like Trump and the Republicans are literally the anti-christ to fascists. Especially Trump, who doesn't put a system above the individual, he puts *himself* above the system and the nation.

All I am really saying is, don't call something fascism when it ain't.
 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

19. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 17:57 Simon Says
 
wtf_man wrote on May 22, 2018, 13:33:
Bernie... admits he's a socialist. Socialist = far left. Period.

It's not about labels. North Korea labeled themselves a "democratic republic", but its as democratic as the Roman empire was. Labels mean jack shit.

It's about THE POLICIES. He's advocating for social democrat policies. And newsflash, social democrat policies on the absolute left to right scale are slightly right of center.

Left of social democrat policies are democratic socialism policies, which is located slightly left of center. Then moving more onto the center left you get into industrial democratic policies, ( like those of Noam Chomsky where he advocates for worker/cooperatives owned means of production with decentralized/anti-authoritarian decisional powers through local worker voting ), push even more to the left and you get into the realm of socialism, even more to the left is getting rid of money and actual communism.

Is Bernie advocating for worker owned means of production, to disassemble corporations into factory sized units which each factory's production decisions being voted upon by the workers? No... So he's not even center left, guaranteed.

Universal healthcare ( and all the other policies Sanders put forward ) are SOCIAL DEMOCRAT policies, like those used in Scandinavian countries, which happens to be, as stated earlier... slightly right of center. SHOCKING!

You have no left at all in the US, NONE. And newsflash, even Bernie is located slightly right of center. Hillary/Dems are center right and Trump/GOP are of course far right.

And no, California doesn't have any social democrat policies at the moment, nor does it have any democratic socialism policies and even less industrial democracy policies, so it's NOT left and heck it's not even slightly right of center. It's far left only inside the limited Overton window of the US which is entirely located on the right in the absolute left-right scale, and on this scale, you know, the REAL one, Cali is between center right and slightly right of center. It's right of Canada in most of their policies, with Canada being pretty much a social democrat country.

You only think you have a left, because you've been told to think that by your media... you don't.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

18. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 17:28 NKD
 
Icewind wrote on May 22, 2018, 16:22:

So, when are you guys leaving the union? Hope it's soon. We can count those electoral votes out in 2020.

Washington and Oregon will be going with. Enjoy living in Jesusland.
 
Avatar 43041
 



"Fuck off, bard." -Geralt of Rivia
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

17. Re: Morning Metaverse May 22, 2018, 17:18 jdreyer
 
The housing shortage in SF, Honolulu, and other cities is caused by NIMBYism, which is a non ideological cause.

Housing and rent prices are the biggest driver of homelessness where I live.
 
Avatar 22024
 



"Blizzard fucked up what should have been the easiest pile of free money ever." - NKD
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
36 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >