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Morning Metaverse

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35. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 18, 2018, 12:53 Beamer
 
TheVocalMinority wrote on Apr 18, 2018, 12:47:
Beamer wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 10:10:
Legally, you have no leg to stand on, but you argue some moral right.

This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about, you are deliberately misapplying a legal context when the conversation is about a natural right!

The rest of you frothy rant seems to be largely addressing agreements I did not make and ascribing to me thoughts I do not have so I hope you won't be too offended by my failure to address them. I have little time to argue with people on the internet.

You're deciding a natural right, though, to espouse Nazi sentiment to other customers in a private business.

That's lunacy. Sorry, utter lunacy. Again, I don't have a right to walk into your business and call your customers the n-word, why should Facebook allow this? They have a terms of service! They were violated. You're saying they do not have the right to kick off people who violate the terms of service.

Again, you place the right to say whatever you want wherever you want above anything else, which, frankly, makes you a lunatic. And you say others are frothing at the mouth for going "banning Nazis from your business? Smart."
 
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34. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 18, 2018, 12:47 TheVocalMinority
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 10:10:
Legally, you have no leg to stand on, but you argue some moral right.

This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about, you are deliberately misapplying a legal context when the conversation is about a natural right!

The rest of you frothy rant seems to be largely addressing agreements I did not make and ascribing to me thoughts I do not have so I hope you won't be too offended by my failure to address them. I have little time to argue with people on the internet.
 
VM
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33. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 11:05 RedEye9
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 08:59:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:13:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 18:12:
"It's not fascism when we do it!"
Every hundred years or so the same shit...

I'm sure you realize that Facism has yet to be around for even one hundred years.
I do. But it or similar existed long before that without clear definition in a term.
But you trying to use that in your argument only confirms why its so useless to argue with you guys. You could just as much argue about my grammar. And everyone knows what that means for a discussion, if that happens.
@Jdreyer.
Are you a 99 year old facist?!!?!1!?
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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32. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 10:10 Beamer
 
TheVocalMinority wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 10:04:
Yes Beamer I am quite aware that you do not believe in freedom of speech and do not even appear to understand it (although I suspect you deliberately misunderstand).

NAZIs and criminals still have this freedom. Stopping Facebook from banning someone does not violate any right to free speech and is something I do not have the power to do anyway. What I do have the power to do is not support any businesses that uses excessive censorship, and encourage others to do likewise (although this would be the least of the reasons I have not to use Facebook).

To reinforce my original point - freedom of speech is something you have because you are human. This is the starting point of the conversation not anything about the constitution of the USA.

1) I have a better understanding of it than you do

2) Because I studied it. You just assume there's some inherent right to say whatever you want wherever you want. This is untrue. You somewhat acknowledge this, as I doubt you'd let me walk into your home and follow you around all day, saying that you're a lunatic, but you say Facebook has lost the right to prevent that due to its ubiquitousness. Legally, you have no leg to stand on, but you argue some moral right.

3) You're welcome to not use Facebook.

4) So is Richard Spencer, and anyone else pushing forward Nazi ideals. They have a right to free speech. Facebook has a right to regulate who patronizes its services. Neither of these conflict, outside of in your head, where you make a moral argument that large companies have a moral obligation to let Nazis say that some of their customers are lesser than other customers based on the circumstances of their birth.

No one is sending Spencer to jail, Facebook is just preventing him from spreading his claims that some of their users are inferior due to the color of their skin. I'm sure that, if you owned a business, you'd proudly let Nazis walk in and be rude to your other customers, chasing them away. I'm sure you'd find yourself surrounded solely by Nazis in a short amount of time, yet be happy with the fact that it was a moral victory.

Sorry, if you think telling customers they're no longer welcome to patronize your business after they told other customers of your business that they're inferior is excessive censorship, I just don't know why I respond to you. You place freedom of speech, a moral one not the legal one, above everything else out there.
 
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31. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 10:04 TheVocalMinority
 
Yes Beamer I am quite aware that you do not believe in freedom of speech and do not even appear to understand it (although I suspect you deliberately misunderstand).

NAZIs and criminals still have this freedom. Stopping Facebook from banning someone does not violate any right to free speech and is something I do not have the power to do anyway. What I do have the power to do is not support any businesses that uses excessive censorship, and encourage others to do likewise (although this would be the least of the reasons I have not to use Facebook).

To reinforce my original point - freedom of speech is something you have because you are human. This is the starting point of the conversation not anything about the constitution of the USA.
 
VM
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30. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 09:36 RedEye9
 

It's ok if the dotard blocks peeps on twitter because he won by a landslide and is MAWA {making America worse again}.
First Amendment Advocates Charge Trump Can't Block Critics On Twitter

 
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29. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 09:25 Beamer
 
TheVocalMinority wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 08:49:
Probably wasting my time but freedom of speech is a human right - it does not exist because of legislation but, if you believe such things, exists as a right bestowed by simply being human. The constitution of the USA does provide some protections to freedom of speech but does not define that right.

Censorship, which is being discussed here can certainly impact free speech. Due to the size and influence of Facebook this is, arguably, a free speech issue. Like it or not for many people Facebook is the internet and to some extent it has become an electronic public square, but privately owned.

I think it was Chomsky who said you either believe in free speech or you do not. There are many commentators here who do not believe in free speech.

And no, numbnuts, all this does not mean I agree with this Spencer character or like what he stands for.

You'd censor Facebook's speech for Spencer's? They have a right, as all companies do, to say who can and cannot use their services.

Again, Spencer is an actual, Hitler-heiling Nazi. He's done this many times. There are no repercussions to banning him unless you feel that it's a slippery slope issue, in which case what isn't a slippery slope issue?

Furthermore, if we're getting down to slippery slopes, who do you think Facebook can ban? Only people that break the law? Which country's law, given that Facebook has operations in nearly every country by now? If Richard Spencer blocks someone on Facebook, is he limiting their free speech, since they can no longer respond to his speech?
 
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28. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 09:03 Muscular Beaver
 
TheVocalMinority wrote on Apr 17, 2018, 08:49:
Probably wasting my time but freedom of speech is a human right - it does not exist because of legislation but, if you believe such things, exists as a right bestowed by simply being human. The constitution of the USA does provide some protections to freedom of speech but does not define that right.

Censorship, which is being discussed here can certainly impact free speech. Due to the size and influence of Facebook this is, arguably, a free speech issue. Like it or not for many people Facebook is the internet and to some extent it has become an electronic public square, but privately owned.

I think it was Chomsky who said you either believe in free speech or you do not. There are many commentators here who do not believe in free speech.

And no, numbnuts, all this does not mean I agree with this Spencer character or like what he stands for.
These corporations would not exist without free speech. Period. Yet now they want to limit it and claim they can because they have the right to do so and are morally superior.
Maybe they can according to laws, but that doesnt make it right. Its clear where they are headed.
 
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Waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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27. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 08:59 Muscular Beaver
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:13:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 18:12:
"It's not fascism when we do it!"
Every hundred years or so the same shit...

I'm sure you realize that Facism has yet to be around for even one hundred years.
I do. But it or similar existed long before that without clear definition in a term.
But you trying to use that in your argument only confirms why its so useless to argue with you guys. You could just as much argue about my grammar. And everyone knows what that means for a discussion, if that happens.

This comment was edited on Apr 17, 2018, 09:14.
 
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Waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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26. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 17, 2018, 08:49 TheVocalMinority
 
Probably wasting my time but freedom of speech is a human right - it does not exist because of legislation but, if you believe such things, exists as a right bestowed by simply being human. The constitution of the USA does provide some protections to freedom of speech but does not define that right.

Censorship, which is being discussed here can certainly impact free speech. Due to the size and influence of Facebook this is, arguably, a free speech issue. Like it or not for many people Facebook is the internet and to some extent it has become an electronic public square, but privately owned.

I think it was Chomsky who said you either believe in free speech or you do not. There are many commentators here who do not believe in free speech.

And no, numbnuts, all this does not mean I agree with this Spencer character or like what he stands for.
 
VM
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25. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 23:30 HorrorScope
 
NicklePop wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 20:43:
Agreed, "leftists" are the actual Nazi's.

That is just retarded. Lefts are much more inclusion of all race and creeds and the right are much less, boarding on assimilation. How in the hell can you not see that? So with that alone... who would be more nazi like? Too many in the far right are fucked in the head right now.
 
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24. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 22:37 Yifes
 
Orogogus wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:56:
I think you knew that going in. You started off arguing with Timmeh and the others are about the same caliber. There aren't any surprises in this thread.

If people like Timmeh and Beaver were around in the 1800s they would be complaining how Lincoln was anti-freedom because he was denying them the freedom to own slaves. The lack of self awareness and delusion is just sad.
 
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23. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 22:29 Beamer
 
Orogogus wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:56:
Beamer wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:41:
So the actual Nazi is not the actual Nazi.
You guys are ridiculous.

I think you knew that going in. You started off arguing with Timmeh and the others are about the same caliber. There aren't any surprises in this thread.

I don't think they realize it, though.
How do you claim that an actual Nazi is not the actual Nazi in any given situation?
 
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22. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 21:56 Orogogus
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 21:41:
So the actual Nazi is not the actual Nazi.
You guys are ridiculous.

I think you knew that going in. You started off arguing with Timmeh and the others are about the same caliber. There aren't any surprises in this thread.
 
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21. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 21:41 Beamer
 
NicklePop wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 20:43:
Agreed, "leftists" are the actual Nazi's.

Racism (etc) is terrible, but thought and speech control are worse.

Bad ideas die naturally; "Nazi's" impose their ideas through institution and law.

The only speech that should be controlled is the proverbial "yelling fire" in a theater.

So the actual Nazi is not the actual Nazi.
You guys are ridiculous.
 
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20. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 21:13 jdreyer
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 18:12:
"It's not fascism when we do it!"
Every hundred years or so the same shit...

I'm sure you realize that Facism has yet to be around for even one hundred years.
 
Avatar 22024
 
If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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19. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 21:05 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 16, 2018, 16:04:
Because it's factual
White Nationalists Are Flocking to Genetic Ancestry Tests and Aren't Liking the Results

idiots are idiots

I hadn't heard that story. LOL.

Kind of like when someone discovered Hitler might have had a Jewish grandparent, so he razed the town they were from, destroying all the records.

As a side note, do you know who *doesn't* have Neanderthal genes? People of African descent.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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18. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 20:43 NicklePop
 
Agreed, "leftists" are the actual Nazi's.

Racism (etc) is terrible, but thought and speech control are worse.

Bad ideas die naturally; "Nazi's" impose their ideas through institution and law.

The only speech that should be controlled is the proverbial "yelling fire" in a theater.
 
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17. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 20:12 YourNick
 
Flipping houses, basically cheat people out of getting a good deal on buying a house. I wouldn't be surprised to see Zillow hiding good deals until they flip it first, then list it.  
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16. Re: Morning Metaverse Apr 16, 2018, 19:03 Beamer
 
I mean, you're saying people banning Nazis may be bad because Nazis would ban Nazis.

This isn't Nazi inception. Richard Spencer is a Nazi. Banning Nazis from your private place is never a decision that makes you bad.
 
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