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Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 12:36
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Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 12:36
Apr 7, 2018, 12:36
 
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12.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 12:31
12.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 12:31
Apr 7, 2018, 12:31
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 12:16:
ItBurn wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 11:51:
What's happening is that women w/bachelors choose lower paying jobs. edited for clarity
Exactly, degreed individuals always chooses lower paying jobs. /facepalm

I think he meant that if women chose to mostly get bachelors in literature while if men chose engineering, that women would end up getting paid as teachers ($50K) while men would end up getting paid as engineers ($80K). Fortunately, the study covers that:

“Whether it’s a male-dominated field like STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) or a female-dominated field like nursing, men continue to earn more and that is a result of direct sexism in the labour market,” said Sheila Block, a senior economist at the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives.

And before we go down the "Maybe men are just better at STEM jobs" path, know that there's no evidence of that being the case.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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11.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 12:18
11.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 12:18
Apr 7, 2018, 12:18
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 08:23:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 03:17:
Jesus fucking Christ, Cutter. You're as dense as ..
And you were expecting Einstein from the hoser?

That guy is so weird. Sometimes he's got really smart and insightful things to say, other times just dumb. As I said before, it's almost as if there are two people posting under that name.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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10.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 12:16
10.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 12:16
Apr 7, 2018, 12:16
 
ItBurn wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 11:51:
What's happening is that women w/bachelors choose lower paying jobs. edited for clarity
Exactly, degreed individuals always chooses lower paying jobs. /facepalm
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9.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 11:51
9.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 11:51
Apr 7, 2018, 11:51
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 03:17:
The wage gap persisted across all fields with women holding a bachelor’s degree having a median income of $68,342 in 2016, while men with the same level of education earned $82,082, according to Statistics Canada data released Wednesday.

I didn't look at the stats and I have no idea what the truth is, but if you look at this with a critical eye, having a bachelor's degree doesn't mean that you're going to have a job with a specific salary. There's low paying bachelor jobs and high paying ones. What may be happening is that women tend to choose bachelors that lead to lower paying jobs. So, these numbers do not necessarily mean that there's a pay gap.
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8.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 08:23
8.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 08:23
Apr 7, 2018, 08:23
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 7, 2018, 03:17:
Jesus fucking Christ, Cutter. You're as dense as ..
And you were expecting Einstein from the hoser?
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7.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 7, 2018, 03:17
7.
Re: etc. Apr 7, 2018, 03:17
Apr 7, 2018, 03:17
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 21:41:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 13:55:
Women Earn Significantly Less Money Than Men At Rockstar North, Among Other Gaming Companies…

That's the story about women in every industry, sadly. I wonder if forcing companies to make salaries public knowledge would solve this problem.

Really? Because they hold all the advantages and make way more money in hospitality, nursing, etc.

"They make more tips as waitresses and bartenders, so fuck 'em!"

Jesus fucking Christ, Cutter. You're as dense as Mike Pence. The pay gap is real:

The wage gap persisted across all fields with women holding a bachelor’s degree having a median income of $68,342 in 2016, while men with the same level of education earned $82,082, according to Statistics Canada data released Wednesday.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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6.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 21:41
6.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 21:41
Apr 6, 2018, 21:41
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 13:55:
Women Earn Significantly Less Money Than Men At Rockstar North, Among Other Gaming Companies…

That's the story about women in every industry, sadly. I wonder if forcing companies to make salaries public knowledge would solve this problem.

Really? Because they hold all the advantages and make way more money in hospitality, nursing, etc.
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
5.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 14:03
5.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 14:03
Apr 6, 2018, 14:03
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 13:47:
ItBurn wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 13:06:
If you do the salary average, which is what created this article's headline, of course women will earn less. The higher paying jobs like engineering are mostly occupied by men.
Uh, that is kind of the point. Now as to your ascertain that women have less interest in high paying job types then men, I can't speak to that. But if you have any documented evidence I'd be glad to look at it. Even if it exists, it would be difficult to account for women who avoid male dominated professions simply because they don't want the hassle of doing it.

Personally, I think it is reasonably clear there is still a fair amount of social pressure/thinking/momentum which causes reduced support for women in engineering and other male dominated professions. It isn't an easy problem to solve...

I never said that women have less interest in high paying jobs in general. I was talking about game companies. Programmers are generally the highest paid apart from the people at the higher echelons of management. There's a lot of programmers on a game project and they usually are almost all men. I didn't do any scientific research on the subject, but it's just clear from my life experiences that women like programming less. Are there factors that affect a woman's decision to go in sciences, absolutely, but I think that the biggest reason they go in science less is that most don't want to.

Edit: I re-read what I initially wrote and it does sound like I was speaking in general. While it's probably the case in general, I don't have much experience with that, only with games.
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4.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 13:57
4.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 13:57
Apr 6, 2018, 13:57
 
Farmer Plays Game About Farming As An Escape From His Farming Life…

It's not that strange. Soldiers deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan play Call of Duty to unwind, for example. You'd think they'd play Stardew Valley or something.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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3.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 13:55
3.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 13:55
Apr 6, 2018, 13:55
 
Women Earn Significantly Less Money Than Men At Rockstar North, Among Other Gaming Companies…

That's the story about women in every industry, sadly. I wonder if forcing companies to make salaries public knowledge would solve this problem.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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2.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 13:47
2.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 13:47
Apr 6, 2018, 13:47
 
ItBurn wrote on Apr 6, 2018, 13:06:
If you do the salary average, which is what created this article's headline, of course women will earn less. The higher paying jobs like engineering are mostly occupied by men.
Uh, that is kind of the point. Now as to your ascertain that women have less interest in high paying job types then men, I can't speak to that. But if you have any documented evidence I'd be glad to look at it. Even if it exists, it would be difficult to account for women who avoid male dominated professions simply because they don't want the hassle of doing it.

Personally, I think it is reasonably clear there is still a fair amount of social pressure/thinking/momentum which causes reduced support for women in engineering and other male dominated professions. It isn't an easy problem to solve...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
1.
 
Re: etc.
Apr 6, 2018, 13:06
1.
Re: etc. Apr 6, 2018, 13:06
Apr 6, 2018, 13:06
 
If you do the salary average, which is what created this article's headline, of course women will earn less. The higher paying jobs like engineering are mostly occupied by men. If you ask me, it's because women are less interested in that, but if you go the "women are discouraged from going in science" route, the issue still isn't with the pay.

Except for rare exceptions where there's actual huge misogynists in power, there's no pay gap, it's a lie. If you absolutely want men and women to earn exactly the same in average, you're going to have to force women into jobs they aren't interested in, or pay women more than men for the same job.
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