Also, the "unlimited" nature of the resources doesn't really show up until late in the mid-game. Early-game and early mid-game is a constant battle to get more resources collected and processed.

Creston wrote on Apr 1, 2018, 14:57:
No, but there is difficult in those games. For example in Cities Skylines, the difficulty is in managing your traffic and keeping your city flowing. In older Sim Cities, the difficulty was in managing budget.

From what (admittedly little) I've seen in Factorio, there really is no difficulty. Everything is available in monstrous quantities, so it's really just a matter of time?

Well, with the aliens it is possible to die and even get to a point where the game is not recoverable. But that's really only the early game. Technically resources are unlimited, but you have to go further and further a field to get them. And even though they might be unlimited -- managing them and getting them to flow in manner sufficient to your needs takes significant planning and execution.

A standard challenge the community has come up with is building a base which can launch a rocket once per minute. And despite having build a base which has launched 300 rockets, yet me say that is no easy or small task. As far as "difficulty" you can modify how often you see resource patches and how big they are, as well as how often and big enemy bases are. Either could certainly up the difficulty to the point you probably couldn't survive for long.

I think someone mentioned the "Rail World" option. Basically in this the game makes the resource patches richer, but more sparse and further away from the base. Hence, making the use of rail transportation of resources necessary. Trains are almost, almost, a separate mini-game within Factorio. People have gone long lengths to build complex rail networks simply because they like trains.

This comment was edited on Apr 1, 2018, 15:36.

Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 1, 2018, 12:16:
What are you doing when you play SimCity or a similar game? While there is an artificial goal of launching a satellite so you can be "rescued" -- it's kind of like saying the goal in SimCity is to reach population X.

No, but there is difficult in those games. For example in Cities Skylines, the difficulty is in managing your traffic and keeping your city flowing. In older Sim Cities, the difficulty was in managing budget.

From what (admittedly little) I've seen in Factorio, there really is no difficulty. Everything is available in monstrous quantities, so it's really just a matter of time?

The game is about the fun you have figuring out, first how to build stuff, second learning better ways to build stuff, third learning efficiencies in your designs, etc...

One of the best things about the game is mod support and an active mod community. So even if you get tired of the base game eventually (I spent over 800 hours playing the base or "vanilla" game) there are plenty of new things to try. Different ores, more complicated recipes, stronger enemies, pretty much whatever you want.

However, if you are looking for an extensive storyline -- you won't find it here. This is a building game.

Got it. Thanks man!

Creston wrote on Apr 1, 2018, 12:00:

Anyways, talk to me about Factorio, fellas. What's the point of it? What's your goal? Just build stuff? Is there an end-game to reach? Do you need to build defenses? What's going on with it. (nm about the enemies question, that was already answered. )

I watch some let's plays, and it does get me a little itchy in the fingers, but at the same time, after 10 minutes I think "is this all you're doing?"

What are you doing when you play SimCity or a similar game? While there is an artificial goal of launching a satellite so you can be "rescued" -- it's kind of like saying the goal in SimCity is to reach population X. The game is about the fun you have figuring out, first how to build stuff, second learning better ways to build stuff, third learning efficiencies in your designs, etc...

One of the best things about the game is mod support and an active mod community. So even if you get tired of the base game eventually (I spent over 800 hours playing the base or "vanilla" game) there are plenty of new things to try. Different ores, more complicated recipes, stronger enemies, pretty much whatever you want.

However, if you are looking for an extensive storyline -- you won't find it here. This is a building game.

This comment was edited on Apr 1, 2018, 13:47.

As you probably know we have a strict no sale policy. The game will not go on sale on Steam or any other platform. This basically means that purchasing before the 16th of April 2018 is the only way to buy the game cheaper than the increased release price.

Good luck with that policy. Seems like a brilliant move. :\

Anyways, talk to me about Factorio, fellas. What's the point of it? What's your goal? Just build stuff? Is there an end-game to reach? Do you need to build defenses? What's going on with it. (nm about the enemies question, that was already answered. )

I watch some let's plays, and it does get me a little itchy in the fingers, but at the same time, after 10 minutes I think "is this all you're doing?"

Numinar wrote on Apr 1, 2018, 04:19:
That is next level madness. Love it but I've never developed the skills or maybe stayed on a map long enough to get to that stage. I usually rocket and then start again!

Yeah, that is my full blown madness map. 300 rocket launches on that map -- not record setting territory but definitely more than average.

Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 20:16:

Numinar wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 19:30:
But they eventually get REAL nasty, and almost act like a timer as the big fuckers will soak up lasers and bullets for days. Setting that wall up with trains that resupply repair and rearming robots might make it maintenance free in terms of your time (the most precious of resources) but as with resource and water distribution funding those just right settings for your preferred style can be a challenge. I’m all about that rail world preset and variants of it which neuters the critters somewhat.

*meh*

In the end game, when power is a total non-issue due to you having either nuclear power or large fields of solar panels and you have sufficiently researched your laser upgrades it is just a matter of taking the time to setup the defenses.

I have a map which traveling east to west takes a Locomotive without cargo cars and using rocket fuel a five full minutes to cross on a nearly straight path, some minor kinks but nothing worth mentioning. The map is at least as tall as it wide. And I have that entire area walled off and covered with enough laser turrets that I rarely even see damage alerts. And even when I do, I tend to ignore it since I have the entire wall covered with roboport construction zones. Each roboport having 25 robots, walls, lasers, power poles, and 100 repair packs. It has been literally 100s of hours of game play since the last time something was actually destroyed.

That is next level madness. Love it but I've never developed the skills or maybe stayed on a map long enough to get to that stage. I usually rocket and then start again!

I haven't done a careful look at Rimworld, but the impression I got with what I have seen is there's more combat/conflict than I care for. I like building games to be centered on building. When I played my many hundreds of hours of SimCity 2000, I played with the disasters turned off. Are there options in Rimworld to reduce the amount of combat you have?

Numinar wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 19:30:
But they eventually get REAL nasty, and almost act like a timer as the big fuckers will soak up lasers and bullets for days. Setting that wall up with trains that resupply repair and rearming robots might make it maintenance free in terms of your time (the most precious of resources) but as with resource and water distribution funding those just right settings for your preferred style can be a challenge. I’m all about that rail world preset and variants of it which neuters the critters somewhat.

*meh*

In the end game, when power is a total non-issue due to you having either nuclear power or large fields of solar panels and you have sufficiently researched your laser upgrades it is just a matter of taking the time to setup the defenses.

I have a map which traveling east to west takes a Locomotive without cargo cars and using rocket fuel a five full minutes to cross on a nearly straight path, some minor kinks but nothing worth mentioning. The map is at least as tall as it wide. And I have that entire area walled off and covered with enough laser turrets that I rarely even see damage alerts. And even when I do, I tend to ignore it since I have the entire wall covered with roboport construction zones. Each roboport having 25 robots, walls, lasers, power poles, and 100 repair packs. It has been literally 100s of hours of game play since the last time something was actually destroyed.

Numinar wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 01:07:

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 01:01:
I'm Factorio-curious, but not at $20. Sounds like I'll miss this one, like RimWorld.

I feel like I wasted $20 on Rimworld after getting caught up in the hype on this very board.

Factorio is something very, very different. I would even say better but that is a little unfair, I'm sure some people have 200 hours on Rimworld and love it like I love Factorio. It's worth an hour or two of your labour for sure. I guess if you are earning developing world wages it might not be worth it. It's cheaper than a bottle of cheap scotch in my part of the world and a lot more fun.

Rimworld is a fantastic game, but it is quite niche. It is like Dwarf Fortress. There is a style of play that is about observing, watching something happen. The kind of thing where you watch a bunch of Dominos fall over. Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld are very much about that. You build something up to ultimately watch everything fall apart in unique ways every time. That doesn't work for everyone.

Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 17:29:
Personally, I've played long games both with and without enemies. Go with whichever option sounds better to you. If you do play with them, I suggest configuring the game with a large starting area to give you some breathing room at the start of the game. Don't delay your turret research too long...

There is also a toggle to stop them re-colonising areas you have cleared, or at least a preset that does this. Push them back far enough from your base and they won’t attack/evolve much at all.

I like the game without but it feels pretty epic when you go full trump and wall off a continent with 200 turrets and 3 square deep concrete. But they eventually get REAL nasty, and almost act like a timer as the big fuckers will soak up lasers and bullets for days. Setting that wall up with trains that resupply repair and rearming robots might make it maintenance free in terms of your time (the most precious of resources) but as with resource and water distribution funding those just right settings for your preferred style can be a challenge. I’m all about that rail world preset and variants of it which neuters the critters somewhat.

As HoSpanky and Peter M Smith indicated there are enemies. They are configurable just like the resources for how often they appear and how big their bases are -- as well as the options to make them "peaceful" they only attack you when you attack them or to eliminate them completely. In early versions you needed items you received from killing them for some late game items. That's no longer the case.

Their very presence is a bit of a philosophical argument among the community. It does fit the "story" of the game and does provide some additional challenges/obstacles. However many feel the game is about building and designing your base/factory, not fighting aliens. In the early game they can be dangerous. However unless you have cranked up their numbers in the beginning configuration, by mid game they are not too much of a bother. In the end game, they are nothing more than an annoyance.

Personally, I've played long games both with and without enemies. Go with whichever option sounds better to you. If you do play with them, I suggest configuring the game with a large starting area to give you some breathing room at the start of the game. Don't delay your turret research too long...

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 14:34:
I saw the character had a gun. Are there enemies?

As Peter says, yes, there are enemies. You saw the gun... there's also a little car with a turret and a tank that you can load some nasty stuff into. Flame throwers, chainguns, laser turrets and in the newest patch, mortar cannons. Apparently you can put the cannons on trains, which sounds hilarious.

Unless you REALLY crank up the monster difficulty/spawn rate, they're really mostly a nuisance. Unless you go looking for trouble, you will die more to your own trains than the monsters.

You WILL
get killed
by your own trains.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 14:34:
I saw the character had a gun. Are there enemies?

There is native life, and they're annoying. Playing a Death World they can be dangerous. However, if you find them too much you can simply turn them off.

If you do play with them be warned: they get more dangerous over time as there is an evolution mechanism.

Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 09:26:

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 08:56:
Guess I should try the demo...

Obviously if you think you might like it, that's the thing to do. I will say if you go into the game totally blind, never having watched a video about it, it can be a bit jarring at the start. Kind of like launching yourself into Minecraft without having any prior knowledge. I watched Let's Play videos of Minecraft before I ever played the game. But if I hadn't, I'm pretty sure I would have landed in a world and walked around for a bit and then said, "Uh, now what?" It never would have occurred to me to punch a tree...

Now, the blind knowledge Factorio experience might be in the same ball park, but at least now the game offers tutorials.

Yeah I watched a let's play last night. I guess I will check it out. I typically like building games. I'm really looking forward to getting They Are Billions once it's a bit more baked.

I saw the character had a gun. Are there enemies?

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 06:39:
Dude, you live in FL, right? WHY ARE YOU AWAKE AT 4:50 AM ON SATURDAY??!

Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 09:17:
Yeah, Rigs is in Florida. Maybe he's at work?

I'm a bit nocturnal because of my many years working overnight/3rd shifts. I went from partying in the early mornings when I was young right into preferring to work overnight. Most times I'm awake from 1am on. Just years of habit now more than anything.

=-Rigs-=

jdreyer wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 08:56:
Guess I should try the demo...

Obviously if you think you might like it, that's the thing to do. I will say if you go into the game totally blind, never having watched a video about it, it can be a bit jarring at the start. Kind of like launching yourself into Minecraft without having any prior knowledge. I watched Let's Play videos of Minecraft before I ever played the game. But if I hadn't, I'm pretty sure I would have landed in a world and walked around for a bit and then said, "Uh, now what?" It never would have occurred to me to punch a tree...

Now, the blind knowledge Factorio experience might be in the same ball park, but at least now the game offers tutorials.

Yeah, Rigs is in Florida. Maybe he's at work?

I love Factorio, but I am happy to say/admit up front it is not a game for everyone. I want to call it a "complex building game" but complex really isn't the correct word... because you can learn most everything there is to know simply by playing the game.

The comparison to mechanical modded Minecraft is probably reasonable -- although I've only ever watched videos of that kind of Minecraft game play.

Guess I should try the demo...

Rigs wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 04:50:

Numinar wrote on Mar 31, 2018, 01:07:
I feel like I wasted $20 on Rimworld after getting caught up in the hype on this very board.

I'm curious, what didn't you like about Rimworld? I think it comes damn close to being a graphically modern take on Dwarf Fortress and it has extensive mod support like Factorio. I didn't think there was anything outright negative about Rimworld but maybe I'm slightly biased as I've been playing it since the early alphas. Factorio, on the other hand, has been a hard sell for me simply because I don't have that tiny engineer inside me, fighting to get out. He died in a puff of flame and smoke when I burnt out on mechanical mods for Minecraft. *shrugs* He'll be back one day.

=-Rigs-=

Dude, you live in FL, right? WHY ARE YOU AWAKE AT 4:50 AM ON SATURDAY??!