bigspender wrote on Mar 11, 2018, 05:12:
Given that 12 women are killed everyday (usually by their partners) in the USA, and there are no women bashing simulators, it seems to suggest that games aren't the problem to all of this other violence.

Hey now. Let's not forget about this game that let you bash women.

Given that 12 women are killed everyday (usually by their partners) in the USA, and there are no women bashing simulators, it seems to suggest that games aren't the problem to all of this other violence.

And these daily dozen homocides aren't from guns usually either. So taking guns away won't do a lot.

The best solution imo is to move to another country with better statistics. There doesn't seem to be any escaping violence in the USA.

Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 19:07:
I will never buy into the desensitization BS. Point in fact we see a direct correlation in the opposite effect. That with the rise and availability of violent games and porn we see less actual violent and sex crimes in society. Gee, it's almost like allowing people to blow off virtual steam they're less frustrated and need to act out IRL.

Well said, I wish you were more consistent with legitimate points.

Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 19:07:
I will never buy into the desensitization BS. Point in fact we see a direct correlation in the opposite effect. That with the rise and availability of violent games and porn we see less actual violent and sex crimes in society. Gee, it's almost like allowing people to blow off virtual steam they're less frustrated and need to act out IRL.

In ancient Rome, the Senate and even the Caesars knew this well. This is why they had blood sports. They knew if they did not give people violence, their society would be ripped about by it.

Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 19:07:
I will never buy into the desensitization BS. Point in fact we see a direct correlation in the opposite effect. That with the rise and availability of violent games and porn we see less actual violent and sex crimes in society. Gee, it's almost like allowing people to blow off virtual steam they're less frustrated and need to act out IRL.

QFT

Probably the best article CNN has written in 2 years.

I will never buy into the desensitization BS. Point in fact we see a direct correlation in the opposite effect. That with the rise and availability of violent games and porn we see less actual violent and sex crimes in society. Gee, it's almost like allowing people to blow off virtual steam they're less frustrated and need to act out IRL.

edaciousx wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 17:56:

Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 11:51:
Next time I go to the US I'm going to go to a gun range and try a whole host of weapons because I should be a world-class shootist by now if video games are the problem. Hell, get my cardio up and I should be able to easily win gold in the next Olympics for biathalon. You know, 'cause that's how easily video games translate into real life. And given how much I play 4X games I should also be a major captain of industry and be able to design cities and nations from the ground up without breaking a sweat.

i just started buying guns and shooting irl. the games that are more realistic actually has taught me some about holding guns, reloading, and shooting irl. still it's pretty different though but there's similarities.

you definitely should go to a gun range next time you're in the states.

Congrats on being the only intelligent comment, aside from the HM off densenitivity.

Yes, games do desensitize SOME of us.

I've been playing shooting games for over thirty years now, and I still get upset when I hear of violence or see a displayed gun in a courtroom or bar or school or Wal-Mart or anywhere. Cuz guns make people instantly more deadly.

There are plenty of psychological benefits to violence in games and plenty of problems, just like any other medium.

The problem with this debate is the claim that games have NO positive benefit to someone planning a gun-related crime.

That's f*cking stupid.

A game can be a tool just like anything else.

Want to tell me that well-programmed AI with a properly built map mod won't help a bank robber training in a VR headset? That's stupid. It helps just as much as a case-designed obstacle course on a paintball range.

It ain't perfect, but there's a reason a lot of training is done in simulators, and some videogames have the potential to be really decent simulators.

And go ahead and tell be that World Of Guns: Gun Disassembly has no benefit to criminals or future criminals who see guns as tools for their crimes.

That being said, they WON'T make people shooters. They WILL help those who already are and who want to be.

... just like certain books and TV shows and manuals to can buy or consume with LESS difficulty than you can currently consume videogames about guns.

The problem is the guns themselves. They make killing INCREDIBLY easy. Anyone who disagrees has their head up their ass.

And I still don't know why the discussion is on crime and murder and accidents.

Literally over half of the gun deaths are from suicides. Suicides dwarf all gun deaths combined. And just like murder, suicide is made MUCH easier and MUCH more likely with guns. The success stats for suicide are incredibly way to convey.


Let's say sometime attempted suicide.
Was the method guns? If so, they're almost definitely dead. Was it something other than guns? They're quite likely still alive and most likely NOT going to try again.

If that ain't tragic, I don't know what is.

Full disclosure: I have NOT been witness to or involved in or suffered from a gun-related suicide attempt, successful or not. So there's no personal bias here, just disgust with ignorance, willful or not.

Brynjolf wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 16:29:
If there was a correlation between violent video games and mass shootings, why are they an almost exclusive phenomenon to the US, even tho those games are played all over the world?

No, its the misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment and the amount of privately owned guns in the US that make a lot more sense statistically.

As Simon pointed out, the correlation between violent games and mass shootings in an inverse one. Meaning, more games correlates to less violence. Countries where games are the most popular, like South Korea and the Netherlands have very low rates of gun violence (or even violent crime). School shooters play video games 3x less often than an average student. So yeah, games have nothing to do with gun violence, and in fact, probably deter it.

As you point out, it's really the massive number of guns and the ease with which they are acquired that cause the massive number of gun deaths in the USA. I also suspect that the American culture of individuality also contributes to the problem.

ledhead1969 wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 14:22:
What's interesting is that, depending who is in the White House, CNN changes its tune completely. "Fact"

http://cnn.it/2Hm8BHk
http://bit.ly/2tAQaNf
http://cnnmon.ie/1JnqRzz
http://cnn.it/1jgdZNR
http://cnn.it/2Hmgr3F
http://cnn.it/2IfSsVa
http://cnn.it/2FXMHur

Researchers say the link isn't about shooting a gun, it's about desensitization.

The real issue is lazy parents letting their kids play these games at an early age. They would never let them go see R Rated horror movies or torture movies at age 11 but they let them kill people in a virtual world, plus allow them to do it virtually to real people over the internet.

If you can't see a link with that and desensitizing a young child you are just a partisan hack. But, then again, no one ever said Blues neck-beards focus on "Fact"s when it comes to hating Trump.

All the games the WH reviewed at the summit were PEGI 18. So, yeah, if parents are letting their kids play that shit, bad on them. Maybe we need laws against that, like buying beer for those under 21.

Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 11:51:
Next time I go to the US I'm going to go to a gun range and try a whole host of weapons because I should be a world-class shootist by now if video games are the problem. Hell, get my cardio up and I should be able to easily win gold in the next Olympics for biathalon. You know, 'cause that's how easily video games translate into real life. And given how much I play 4X games I should also be a major captain of industry and be able to design cities and nations from the ground up without breaking a sweat.

i just started buying guns and shooting irl. the games that are more realistic actually has taught me some about holding guns, reloading, and shooting irl. still it's pretty different though but there's similarities.

you definitely should go to a gun range next time you're in the states.

Brynjolf wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 16:29:
If there was a correlation between violent video games and mass shootings, why are they an almost exclusive phenomenon to the US, even tho those games are played all over the world?

No, its the misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment and the amount of privately owned guns in the US that make a lot more sense statistically.

Of course it is, and the vast majority of people know this. It's the NRA and their gun industry backers who push these narratives. Anything to take the spotlight off the truth.

If there was a correlation between violent video games and mass shootings, why are they an almost exclusive phenomenon to the US, even tho those games are played all over the world?

No, its the misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment and the amount of privately owned guns in the US that make a lot more sense statistically.

ledhead1969 wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 14:22:
What's interesting is that, depending who is in the White House, CNN changes its tune completely. "Fact"

http://cnn.it/2Hm8BHk
http://bit.ly/2tAQaNf
http://cnnmon.ie/1JnqRzz
http://cnn.it/1jgdZNR
http://cnn.it/2Hmgr3F
http://cnn.it/2IfSsVa
http://cnn.it/2FXMHur

Researchers say the link isn't about shooting a gun, it's about desensitization.

The real issue is lazy parents letting their kids play these games at an early age. They would never let them go see R Rated horror movies or torture movies at age 11 but they let them kill people in a virtual world, plus allow them to do it virtually to real people over the internet.

If you can't see a link with that and desensitizing a young child you are just a partisan hack. But, then again, no one ever said Blues neck-beards focus on "Fact"s when it comes to hating Trump.

Much like you do to pay attention to authors and just assume CNN is a hive mind?

Here's a surprisingly good Tweet ( with pictures of evidence from the book mentioned below ) on the subject covering the findings in the book "Moral Combat" by Patrick Marley, professor of psychology and Director of the IR Laboratory at Villanova University who conducts research on video games and interpersonal dynamics.

Overall, there's a correlation between gun violence/school shootings and video games, it's just an INVERSE correlation. More games = less shootings and school shooters are usually LESS interested in playing video games.

Click here for the goods.

What's interesting is that, depending who is in the White House, CNN changes its tune completely. "Fact"

http://cnn.it/2Hm8BHk
http://bit.ly/2tAQaNf
http://cnnmon.ie/1JnqRzz
http://cnn.it/1jgdZNR
http://cnn.it/2Hmgr3F
http://cnn.it/2IfSsVa
http://cnn.it/2FXMHur

Researchers say the link isn't about shooting a gun, it's about desensitization.

The real issue is lazy parents letting their kids play these games at an early age. They would never let them go see R Rated horror movies or torture movies at age 11 but they let them kill people in a virtual world, plus allow them to do it virtually to real people over the internet.

If you can't see a link with that and desensitizing a young child you are just a partisan hack. But, then again, no one ever said Blues neck-beards focus on "Fact"s when it comes to hating Trump.

El Pit wrote on Mar 10, 2018, 13:29:
Video games do not teach people to become pilots in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become politicians in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become astronauts in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become race drivers in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become parents in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become presidents in real life (opinion)
Training lessons with guns do not teach people to become shooters in real life (NRA "fact")
Video games do teach people to become shooters in real life (NRA "fact")

The difference is obvious - you could spot it from Mars.

Duh, the NRA are the only ones who use facts. I saw that w/out my glasses.
You can have my facts when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Video games do not teach people to become pilots in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become politicians in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become astronauts in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become race drivers in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become parents in real life (opinion)
Video games do not teach people to become presidents in real life (opinion)
Training lessons with guns do not teach people to become shooters in real life (NRA "fact")
Video games do teach people to become shooters in real life (NRA "fact")

The difference is obvious - you could spot it from Mars.

Saw a good meme yesterday:

If you think society can't handle violent video games

Why the fuck would you let it have guns?


If we are going to be kinder and gentler, I'm ok with that, but a lot of aspects and not only video games needs to be cleaned up. Personally I think anyone attempting this is trying to put the Genie back in the bottle. Good luck, because you'll need it and still get nowhere.

Players don't learn about the mechanics of safeties

They do though in the new gun range simulators.
This is kind of the sole point I think anyone talking about the new VR ranges has... It does teach you how to operate the gun, and more than just the safety too. But yeah aiming and firing is a whole different ballpark for now.