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White House Games Meeting Thursday

The ESA will attend a meeting at the White House on Thursday, so there will be at least one attendee at the summit the President called for last week to see how much of the gun violence in the U.S. can be blamed on video games. There were no invitations sent out before the meeting was mentioned, but now Business Insider reports the Entertainment Software Association says they will meet with Trump administration officials, though no other attendees have been named. Here's what the ESA says about the meeting: "The upcoming meeting at the White House, which ESA will attend, will provide the opportunity to have a fact-based conversation about video game ratings, our industry's commitment to parents, and the tools we provide to make informed entertainment choices." On a related note, Vox discusses the backlash to efforts to blame violence on video games, noting the outrage of GamerGate movement, a group that claims some of Trump's earliest supporters.

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33. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 16:02 RedEye9
 
Sepharo wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:53:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:50:
Sepharo wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:41:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:01:
Yeah, it's pretty much a myth that anyone and everyone can get one at anytime they want.

No it's definitely not a myth. You can walk into a gun show in many states, like Ohio for example, and buy a gun with zero paperwork exchanged and that's legal.

Only if you are buying from a private citizen. Any registered FFL dealer must fill out a form 4473 and do a NICS check on any firearms transaction regardless of where it takes place or they are breaking federal law and will wind up in federal pound me in the ass prison.

Private citizen are not allowed to use the NICS system, even though we have been asking for decades. However, you are not supposed to sell to any person you know to be a prohibited buyer. How can I tell if you won't let me use NICS? I play the safe road. I only sell to people that have their concealed handgun permit in NC so that I can be sure they have passed a background check.

This is the so called "gunshow loophole" myth. It works the same at a gunshow or over the internet or in person. Gunshows are not immune to Federal Firearms Laws.

You can keep saying it's a "myth" but it doesn't change that I can walk into an Ohio gunshow and buy a gun without even showing so much as an ID.
Or that 90% of all "gun show" sales are done in the parking lot.
The Gun Show Loophole is real.

 
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32. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:58 Beamer
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:36:
Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:24:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:12:
Flatline wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:59:
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff?

Semiautomatic rifles are pretty terrible at home defense.

I'd suggest a big dog, a home alarm, or pepper spray, or a pump action shotgun, or a pistol, in that order, before I'd ever... You know what? Even after exhausting all of those I'd still recommend against a "modern sporting rifle" for defense.

A shorter barrel pump shotgun with buckshot in it is a way better option for home defense. Easier to hit, you don't have to worry about punching through multiple walls, and 00 buck or even #4 buck at short range does... well... catastrophic damage if you hit.

Buckshot penetrates interior walls just as well as centerfire rifle cartridges, only instead of 1 round, you have multiple rounds per shot. Pistol rounds also are very good at penetrating walls.

I am just sticking with my Jim Jeffries argument as to why I own combat style long guns. "Fuck you. I like guns."

Also a valid response, lol.

As soon as people start justifying things, it falls apart. "We can't change the Constitution" is dumb as shit because it's the 2nd Amendment, which means it WAS changed. "The founding fathers blah blah blah" is also stupid, because they thought of firearms as muskets that took forever to load. "I need my assault rifle!" is dumb because those people just hate change - ask them where the line is and if I should be allowed to buy an M1 Abrams and they'll say no, so they admit a line they just refuse to discuss it.

"I just like guns" doesn't need justification. It's an argument anyone can get, and leaves room to have a discussion. It's pithy, but actually a good starting point as a defense.
 
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31. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:53 Sepharo
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:50:
Sepharo wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:41:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:01:
Yeah, it's pretty much a myth that anyone and everyone can get one at anytime they want.

No it's definitely not a myth. You can walk into a gun show in many states, like Ohio for example, and buy a gun with zero paperwork exchanged and that's legal.

Only if you are buying from a private citizen. Any registered FFL dealer must fill out a form 4473 and do a NICS check on any firearms transaction regardless of where it takes place or they are breaking federal law and will wind up in federal pound me in the ass prison.

Private citizen are not allowed to use the NICS system, even though we have been asking for decades. However, you are not supposed to sell to any person you know to be a prohibited buyer. How can I tell if you won't let me use NICS? I play the safe road. I only sell to people that have their concealed handgun permit in NC so that I can be sure they have passed a background check.

This is the so called "gunshow loophole" myth. It works the same at a gunshow or over the internet or in person. Gunshows are not immune to Federal Firearms Laws.

You can keep saying it's a "myth" but it doesn't change that I can walk into an Ohio gunshow and buy a gun without even showing so much as an ID.
 
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30. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:51 Sepharo
 
Realistic VR gun range where you need to pull the bolt, push the release, whatever the fuck you'd do with the real gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZssqtbeijiM

One of the rough CS-like games I mentioned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdWXgrkmBEQ
 
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29. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:50 Agent.X7
 
Sepharo wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:41:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:01:
Yeah, it's pretty much a myth that anyone and everyone can get one at anytime they want.

No it's definitely not a myth. You can walk into a gun show in many states, like Ohio for example, and buy a gun with zero paperwork exchanged and that's legal.

Only if you are buying from a private citizen. Any registered FFL dealer must fill out a form 4473 and do a NICS check on any firearms transaction regardless of where it takes place or they are breaking federal law and will wind up in federal pound me in the ass prison.

Private citizen are not allowed to use the NICS system, even though we have been asking for decades. However, you are not supposed to sell to any person you know to be a prohibited buyer. How can I tell if you won't let me use NICS? I play the safe road. I only sell to people that have their concealed handgun permit in NC so that I can be sure they have passed a background check.

This is the so called "gunshow loophole" myth. It works the same at a gunshow or over the internet or in person. Gunshows are not immune to Federal Firearms Laws.
 
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28. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:47 Sepharo
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:42:
Avus wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:03:
This meeting is POTUS way to tell the game industries start spending $/bribing on their politicians like NRA/gun makers did for the last HUNDRED years... otherwise US gov will going to take away your "virtual guns"....

I actually saw an opinion piece from CNN yesterday about how the super realistic virtual reality shooters were training kids to be better killers and they should be dumbed down so that kids won't learn how to fire real guns from these games.

What I want to know is: Where can I get a hold of these awesome games? Because I have yet to see any VR games as realistic as he was claiming.

It's like when they blamed games for training kids how to shoot real guns. There are a ton of videos on You Tube that disprove this theory. Shooting in games is very, very different from shooting in real life. Most of the people tested could not even get the firearm loaded correctly without help, let alone get it to a state where it could be fired by pulling the trigger.

Some of the very first big VR games were simply ultra-realistic gun ranges. They're really barely a game, it's just a VR gun range where you need to have actual knowledge of how to load and fire the various guns. I've seen a few that took that same concept and built a Counter-Strike like MP game around them but they're pretty glitchy and the entertainment probably comes more from the wacky bugs then actual solid gameplay.

Also, I have no problem with those games, and I saw that ridiculous CNN article too. Dude suggested making virtual guns fire on a horizontal curve so the muscle memory couldn't be used for real life... it was full of dumb ideas.
 
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27. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:42 Agent.X7
 
Avus wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 15:03:
This meeting is POTUS way to tell the game industries start spending $/bribing on their politicians like NRA/gun makers did for the last HUNDRED years... otherwise US gov will going to take away your "virtual guns"....

I actually saw an opinion piece from CNN yesterday about how the super realistic virtual reality shooters were training kids to be better killers and they should be dumbed down so that kids won't learn how to fire real guns from these games.

What I want to know is: Where can I get a hold of these awesome games? Because I have yet to see any VR games as realistic as he was claiming.

It's like when they blamed games for training kids how to shoot real guns. There are a ton of videos on You Tube that disprove this theory. Shooting in games is very, very different from shooting in real life. Most of the people tested could not even get the firearm loaded correctly without help, let alone get it to a state where it could be fired by pulling the trigger.
 
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26. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:41 Sepharo
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:01:
Yeah, it's pretty much a myth that anyone and everyone can get one at anytime they want.

No it's definitely not a myth. You can walk into a gun show in many states, like Ohio for example, and buy a gun with zero paperwork exchanged and that's legal.
 
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25. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:41 BIGtrouble77
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 11:51:
It's a weapon that makes violence easy. Most violent crimes are crimes of passion. When all you have to do is pull a gun and squeeze the trigger it's easy. Not so if you have to get up close and personal. That makes people pause. And that makes all the difference in the world. Couple that with America's poverty, obsession with violent media, hero worship of the military, and the institutional paranoia of seeing enemies everywhere that's a recipe for disaster.
As a dual Canadian/US citizen, I agree wholeheartedly.
 
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24. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 15:03 Avus
 
This meeting is POTUS way to tell the game industries start spending $/bribing on their politicians like NRA/gun makers did for the last HUNDRED years... otherwise US gov will going to take away your "virtual guns"....  
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23. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 14:36 Agent.X7
 
Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:24:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:12:
Flatline wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:59:
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff?

Semiautomatic rifles are pretty terrible at home defense.

I'd suggest a big dog, a home alarm, or pepper spray, or a pump action shotgun, or a pistol, in that order, before I'd ever... You know what? Even after exhausting all of those I'd still recommend against a "modern sporting rifle" for defense.

A shorter barrel pump shotgun with buckshot in it is a way better option for home defense. Easier to hit, you don't have to worry about punching through multiple walls, and 00 buck or even #4 buck at short range does... well... catastrophic damage if you hit.

Buckshot penetrates interior walls just as well as centerfire rifle cartridges, only instead of 1 round, you have multiple rounds per shot. Pistol rounds also are very good at penetrating walls.

I am just sticking with my Jim Jeffries argument as to why I own combat style long guns. "Fuck you. I like guns."

Also a valid response, lol.
 
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22. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 14:24 Prez
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 14:12:
Flatline wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:59:
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff?

Semiautomatic rifles are pretty terrible at home defense.

I'd suggest a big dog, a home alarm, or pepper spray, or a pump action shotgun, or a pistol, in that order, before I'd ever... You know what? Even after exhausting all of those I'd still recommend against a "modern sporting rifle" for defense.

A shorter barrel pump shotgun with buckshot in it is a way better option for home defense. Easier to hit, you don't have to worry about punching through multiple walls, and 00 buck or even #4 buck at short range does... well... catastrophic damage if you hit.

Buckshot penetrates interior walls just as well as centerfire rifle cartridges, only instead of 1 round, you have multiple rounds per shot. Pistol rounds also are very good at penetrating walls.

I am just sticking with my Jim Jeffries argument as to why I own combat style long guns. "Fuck you. I like guns."
 
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21. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 14:12 Agent.X7
 
Flatline wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:59:
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff?

Semiautomatic rifles are pretty terrible at home defense.

I'd suggest a big dog, a home alarm, or pepper spray, or a pump action shotgun, or a pistol, in that order, before I'd ever... You know what? Even after exhausting all of those I'd still recommend against a "modern sporting rifle" for defense.

A shorter barrel pump shotgun with buckshot in it is a way better option for home defense. Easier to hit, you don't have to worry about punching through multiple walls, and 00 buck or even #4 buck at short range does... well... catastrophic damage if you hit.

Buckshot penetrates interior walls just as well as centerfire rifle cartridges, only instead of 1 round, you have multiple rounds per shot. Pistol rounds also are very good at penetrating walls.

Rifles are very good at home defense, but you have to aware of your angles and environment. If you live in a townhome or apartment you're right on top of other people and any round that misses its intended target will end up somewhere potentially deadly to a bystander. People need training, but unfortunately they tend to just pick up a gun and feel empowered and they never get the training they need.

This comment was edited on Mar 6, 2018, 14:23.
 
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20. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 14:01 Agent.X7
 
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:03:
The Pyro wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 12:58:
Gun lobby desperately searches for a scapegoat that is not guns.

I'm a "gun person" but I cringe every time the NRA decides to point fingers at games and film. You don't like people blaming guns for violence, so don't be blaming other things that are irrelevant.

I'm not sure the fact there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country and anyone and everyone can get one, with almost no oversight, is irrelevant to the problem of easy access to guns results in people being able to easily kill themselves and other people.

All I need to see is how other countries have handled it. They have strict gun control? Yes. They have mass shootings or 40K people killed by guns every year? No. Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff? How do other countries' citizens defend themselves? Hell, some of their cops don't even have guns.

Yeah, it's pretty much a myth that anyone and everyone can get one at anytime they want. Just like Hollywood movies show people walking into gun stores and buying automatic weapons.

Also, people love to compare apples to oranges with other countries. When the entire population of a European country lives stacked on top of each other in NYC, you should be able to tell that the situation is not comparable.
 
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19. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 13:59 Flatline
 
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:16:
Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff?

Semiautomatic rifles are pretty terrible at home defense.

I'd suggest a big dog, a home alarm, or pepper spray, or a pump action shotgun, or a pistol, in that order, before I'd ever... You know what? Even after exhausting all of those I'd still recommend against a "modern sporting rifle" for defense.

A shorter barrel pump shotgun with buckshot in it is a way better option for home defense. Easier to hit, you don't have to worry about punching through multiple walls, and 00 buck or even #4 buck at short range does... well... catastrophic damage if you hit.
 
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18. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 13:58 DangerDog
 
All guns depicted in video games, movies and TV shall have an orange tip on them to signify that they're not real guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_weapon

In the United States, federal law and regulations indicate that all toy guns transported or imported into the country must have a 6mm-wide blaze orange tip or a blaze orange stripe 1-inch (2.54 centimeters) thick on both sides of the barrel.


 
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17. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 13:45 Flatline
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:03:
The Pyro wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 12:58:
Gun lobby desperately searches for a scapegoat that is not guns.

I'm a "gun person" but I cringe every time the NRA decides to point fingers at games and film. You don't like people blaming guns for violence, so don't be blaming other things that are irrelevant.

I'm a "gun person" too but the NRA just makes me cringe in general. They're about a split hair away from just calling for gun owners to start murdering liberals. They're so apocalyptic and fear-mongering that it's insulting.

They used to not be that way. in the 70's and earlier the NRA advocated for sensible stuff like background checks and really was a gun-owning advocacy group. They've become a gun manufacturer advocacy group and have gone batshiat.

And it won't help. The problem is that by being zero-tolerance, fearmongering, and extremist to the point of nearly calling for open civil violence, they basically refuse to cooperate on anything.

Now for 20 or 30 years, that's been politically viable. But sooner or later, there will be a moment where the public becomes reactionary enough that the NRA won't be able to hold the tide back. In that moment they'll try to find a "middle ground" but by that point the reactionism will be extreme enough that no middle ground will be viable and we'll see some major retaliatory legislation against guns, up to and including a 2nd amendment repeal.

And even as a "gun person" who wants some f*cking sanity in our gun legislation, that kind of reactionary pushback scares me. But it's the only thing that *will* move the needle in any significant way because the gun lobby and politicians feel like this is an invulnerable, immutable argument that they have.
 
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16. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 13:16 Saboth
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 13:03:
The Pyro wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 12:58:
Gun lobby desperately searches for a scapegoat that is not guns.

I'm a "gun person" but I cringe every time the NRA decides to point fingers at games and film. You don't like people blaming guns for violence, so don't be blaming other things that are irrelevant.

I'm not sure the fact there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country and anyone and everyone can get one, with almost no oversight, is irrelevant to the problem of easy access to guns results in people being able to easily kill themselves and other people.

All I need to see is how other countries have handled it. They have strict gun control? Yes. They have mass shootings or 40K people killed by guns every year? No. Do we need guns for "defense", or is that some right wing paranoia stuff? How do other countries' citizens defend themselves? Hell, some of their cops don't even have guns.
 
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15. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 13:03 Agent.X7
 
The Pyro wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 12:58:
Gun lobby desperately searches for a scapegoat that is not guns.

I'm a "gun person" but I cringe every time the NRA decides to point fingers at games and film. You don't like people blaming guns for violence, so don't be blaming other things that are irrelevant.
 
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14. Re: White House Games Meeting Thursday Mar 6, 2018, 12:59 Agent.X7
 
Saboth wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 11:25:
Trump made a comment that we should really have a warning label on violent media, games and music. Guess he's going to be shocked to learn we've had those for decades now. Maybe next time we should elect a President who has knowledge about things like government, the world, economics, history, math, science, society, geography...

Good luck with that one. Politicians in general seem to get ALL of their information from the TV.
 
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