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Gatherings & Competitions

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12. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 14:11 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 10:40:
Is the word "faggot" considered derogatory in a manner similar to the word "nigger"? I would have thought so, but I admit I am not certain. That said, it isn't clear to me did he say this just during a Twitch stream, or was it during some kind of organized Overwatch League match or what?

On his own time, on a Twitch stream, I yawn over this. He's an idiot, free speech has a price attached to it. If this was done during some kind of organized match, you'd think the organizing body would want to avoid the bad press and at least slap his wrist.

Personally, I think it's just below, but similar. It's clearly more socially acceptable, but has a lot of similarities:

  • It assumes someone is bad based upon a birth condition beyond their control


  • It tries to shame them, or "put them in their place," because of that condition


  • It's something most reasonable people now feel isn't really a big deal, or a factor in much of anything.


  • It's spread to be used as an insult to people not of that type, to insult them by comparing them to people of that type.


  • Due to that point, using it as an insult against anyone insults everyone of that type, because it's telling someone that that type is a bad thing.


  • But it's much more socially acceptable, so...
    Personally, I try to make my insults pointed, so that they apply only to the people I want it to apply to. I wouldn't make fun of someone for wearing a green shirt unless I wanted to make sure all people in green shirts were insulted by it.
     
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    11. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 10:40 Mr. Tact
     
    Is the word "faggot" considered derogatory in a manner similar to the word "nigger"? I would have thought so, but I admit I am not certain. That said, it isn't clear to me did he say this just during a Twitch stream, or was it during some kind of organized Overwatch League match or what?

    On his own time, on a Twitch stream, I yawn over this. He's an idiot, free speech has a price attached to it. If this was done during some kind of organized match, you'd think the organizing body would want to avoid the bad press and at least slap his wrist.
     
    Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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    10. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 10:28 Beamer
     
    Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 10:27:
    Not unexpectedly (as you and I have discussed things of this nature before) we are at a fundamental ideological impasse. You believe that impact is what matters; while I take into account the impact someone's words or deeds may have, I do so to a FAR lesser extent than considering intent. The fact that a person at whom the action was not aimed might get offended is completely irrelevant to me when considering repercussions. Everyone gets offended by everyrhimg these days. The fact that the intent might possibly have been a targeted personal slur is what matters. Impact vs. intemt - it doesnt get much more basic a disagreement than that. As is often the case, we will have to agree to disagree.

    I'm ok with that. Outside of me misreading you last week (again, my bad), these tend to be interesting discussions rather than anything anyone reacts too much to.
     
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    9. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 10:27 Prez
     
    Not unexpectedly (as you and I have discussed things of this nature before) we are at a fundamental ideological impasse. You believe that impact is what matters; comversely, while I take into account the impact someone's words or deeds may have, I do so to a FAR lesser extent than considering intent. The fact that a person at whom the action was not aimed might get offended is largely irrelevant to me when considering repercussions. Everyone gets offended by everything these days. The fact that the intent might possibly have been a targeted personal slur is what matters. Impact vs. intemt - it doesnt get much more basic a disagreement than that. As is often the case, we will have to agree to disagree.  
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    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
    - Mahatma Gandhi
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    8. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 09:09 Beamer
     
    Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:58:
    Beamer wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:22:
    Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:13:
    If it were me in charge the punishment would depend on whether he was aware at the time that the guy he called a "fucking faggot" is in fact openly gay. If he didn't at the time, it's incidental smack talk and worthy of a slap on the wrist at most. If he did know, that's a low personal attack and I'd ban his ass forever.

    Yeah, but "straight" isn't an insult, so why is "faggot?"
    It's over a stream, so it's an insult to any gay fans, in that it's implying being gay is, well, an insult.

    They're not protecting their athletes so much as their audience.

    I agree that just use of the term is inappropriate but I look at intent, not who might be offended. I place zero stock in worrying about offense taken unless it is a specific, targeted attack against a person or group. For me there is an ocean of difference between randomly blurting out an incidental slur and using one as a directed, pointed attack against someone. In one case he was just being an incidental douche; in the other, more nefarious case, he was attacking someone for specifically being gay. Either would result in punishment were I in charge, but intent would make the difference between making him sit out a round or being banned for life. It's kind of how how our whole legal system is set up: the difference between first degree murder and manslaughter is pretty vast for example. The difference is intent.

    Yeah, I think that's the difference in our approach. To me, intent hardly matters. Impact matters. If I tell someone that all gamers are socially incompetent losers that live in their parents basements, people here who overhear it will be offended, even if my intent wasn't for them to hear it.

    Your legal system analogy is spot on, but in manslaughter, no one intended for someone to die. In this case, he clearly intended to hurt someone. I see it more as felony murder - he intended to do damage, so he gets penalized for all damage, even if it's beyond the very specific damage he meant.
     
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    7. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 08:58 Prez
     
    Beamer wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:22:
    Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:13:
    If it were me in charge the punishment would depend on whether he was aware at the time that the guy he called a "fucking faggot" is in fact openly gay. If he didn't at the time, it's incidental smack talk and worthy of a slap on the wrist at most. If he did know, that's a low personal attack and I'd ban his ass forever.

    Yeah, but "straight" isn't an insult, so why is "faggot?"
    It's over a stream, so it's an insult to any gay fans, in that it's implying being gay is, well, an insult.

    They're not protecting their athletes so much as their audience.

    I agree that just use of the term is inappropriate but I look at intent, not who might be offended. I place zero stock in worrying about offense taken unless it is a specific, targeted attack against a person or group. For me there is an ocean of difference between randomly blurting out an incidental slur and using one as a directed, pointed attack against someone. In one case he was just being an incidental douche; in the other, more nefarious case, he was attacking someone for specifically being gay. Either would result in punishment were I in charge, but intent would make the difference between making him sit out a round or being banned for life. It's kind of how how our whole legal system is set up: the difference between first degree murder and manslaughter is pretty vast for example. The difference is intent.
     
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    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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    6. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 08:22 Beamer
     
    Prez wrote on Mar 6, 2018, 08:13:
    If it were me in charge the punishment would depend on whether he was aware at the time that the guy he called a "fucking faggot" is in fact openly gay. If he didn't at the time, it's incidental smack talk and worthy of a slap on the wrist at most. If he did know, that's a low personal attack and I'd ban his ass forever.

    Yeah, but "straight" isn't an insult, so why is "faggot?"
    It's over a stream, so it's an insult to any gay fans, in that it's implying being gay is, well, an insult.

    They're not protecting their athletes so much as their audience.
     
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    http://www.hydrahead.com
    http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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    5. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 6, 2018, 08:13 Prez
     
    If it were me in charge the punishment would depend on whether he was aware at the time that the guy he called a "fucking faggot" is in fact openly gay. If he didn't at the time, it's incidental smack talk and worthy of a slap on the wrist at most. If he did know, that's a low personal attack and I'd ban his ass forever.  
    Avatar 17185
     
    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
    - Mahatma Gandhi
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    4. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 5, 2018, 17:07 Mordecai Walfish
     
    rawbelly wrote on Mar 5, 2018, 13:00:
    It's cool to be offended in 2018.

    Come play Rust you sissys.

    Spoken like a true queer.

    (I play on rustafied main every month during the new patch.. pssst keep it secret, kay?)
     
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    "What do I want? I don't really know. Most of the time I ignore my quest and walk into the homes of others, riffling through people's shelves... oooh, like those over there!"
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    3. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 5, 2018, 13:00 rawbelly
     
    It's cool to be offended in 2018.

    Come play Rust you sissys.
     
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    2. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 5, 2018, 12:00 Luke
     
    " in the heat of the night"  
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    1. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Mar 5, 2018, 10:30 Cutter
     
    Conform. Obey.
     
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    "I like oak myself, that's what's in my bedroom. How 'bout you Jimmie? You an oak man?"
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