Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 09:28:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:13:

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:04:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 07:47:
The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

Uh, test-driven development is kind of integral to Agile.

Yup, tested by the consumer.

A) Again, Test-Driven Development (TDD) is integral to Agile methodologies. Typically, TDD (in Agile or otherwise) loops tightly and iteratively between writing tests until production code fails, and writing code until it passes tests again. TDD isn't perfect, but it's generally agreed to be superior to the alternative of having graduated phases of design, implementation, and testing, wherein testing doesn't happen until after you're ostensibly done implementing the software.

B) Apple's software engineering practices are still very 90s big corporation-y, according to my colleagues who are former Apple engineers. That means low test-coverage, heavy middle management overhead, and fixed designs and deadlines. In other words, the embodiment of practices that the Agile Manifesto sought to fight against.

Agile (and TDD) is great for software, where the cost of iterating is low. I wonder how (if?) that can be implemented for hardware. I guess with 3D printers and other new devices, rapid prototyping should allow multiple iterations resulting in a final product using an Agile process. I just haven't heard of it. Would love to read an article if anyone has one.

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 09:28:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:13:

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:04:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 07:47:
The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

Uh, test-driven development is kind of integral to Agile.

Yup, tested by the consumer.

A) Again, Test-Driven Development (TDD) is integral to Agile methodologies. Typically, TDD (in Agile or otherwise) loops tightly and iteratively between writing tests until production code fails, and writing code until it passes tests again. TDD isn't perfect, but it's generally agreed to be superior to the alternative of having graduated phases of design, implementation, and testing, wherein testing doesn't happen until after you're ostensibly done implementing the software.

B) Apple's software engineering practices are still very 90s big corporation-y, according to my colleagues who are former Apple engineers. That means low test-coverage, heavy middle management overhead, and fixed designs and deadlines. In other words, the embodiment of practices that the Agile Manifesto sought to fight against.

While some aspects of Apple may still be managed in that fashion, the trend has been new feature roll-out at the expense of testing (silicon base ring + wood example).

Anyway, it all comes down to implementation, and for some industries its required more than others. The heavy hitters have been dropping the ball, period.

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:13:

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:04:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 07:47:
The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

Uh, test-driven development is kind of integral to Agile.

Yup, tested by the consumer.

A) Again, Test-Driven Development (TDD) is integral to Agile methodologies. Typically, TDD (in Agile or otherwise) loops tightly and iteratively between writing tests until production code fails, and writing code until it passes tests again. TDD isn't perfect, but it's generally agreed to be superior to the alternative of having graduated phases of design, implementation, and testing, wherein testing doesn't happen until after you're ostensibly done implementing the software.

B) Apple's software engineering practices are still very 90s big corporation-y, according to my colleagues who are former Apple engineers. That means low test-coverage, heavy middle management overhead, and fixed designs and deadlines. In other words, the embodiment of practices that the Agile Manifesto sought to fight against.

Are you guys finished jerking each other off about Apple in here?

The real question you should be asking is "Do you respect wood"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo98TJFSErU

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 08:04:

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 07:47:
The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

Uh, test-driven development is kind of integral to Agile.

Yup, tested by the consumer.

Nimh wrote on Feb 15, 2018, 07:47:
The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

Uh, test-driven development is kind of integral to Agile.

The Agile manifesto has ruined silicon valley. Testing? Pffft.. ship now, patch later.

All rubber feet will make rings on oiled wooden tables...

And it’s only oiled tables... not just wood tables.

jdreyer wrote on Feb 14, 2018, 22:36:
HomePods are staining wooden tables with a white ring.

Testing. It's a thing you should do.

Not even testing, I avoid silicone bases like the plague exactly because of this crap. Oils with high acidic levels leak out and that's never a good thing to anything you place it on and you don't need testing to know that, look up how silicone is made and it hits you like a white ring on a wooden surface. Just get normal natural hard rubber feet like every other pleb! When it works on my fat Teufel subwoofer on carpet it works for these dinky speakers.

Apple - Where the only thing of high quality is the price.

That said, for a flawed speaker design like this it makes perfect sense, without soft dampener underneath you'd hear it vibrating like hell ;p

jdreyer wrote on Feb 14, 2018, 22:36:
HomePods are staining wooden tables with a white ring.

Testing. It's a thing you should do.

Apple are too arrogant to test. They'd burn you for even suggesting it.

HomePods are staining wooden tables with a white ring.

Testing. It's a thing you should do.