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Saturday Metaverse

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25. Re: Saturday Metaverse Jan 1, 2018, 09:23 RedEye9
 
I'm glad that Netflix article was the simplified version, if it had been anymore thorough my brain might have sploded.  
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24. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 31, 2017, 15:47 jdreyer
 
All media is ideological to some degree. It's impossible not to be. For example, the media in the USA takes a pro-free speech, pro-justice, pro-rule of law stance (among many others). Ideology can be expressed as simply as choosing which stories to run first. The Iran protests were front page on WaPo, CNN, etc. Fox had them way down the page. That's ideology.
 
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23. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 31, 2017, 11:42 Quboid
 
One isn't a human if their ideology doesn't show through. It's not bias if it's what they honestly think. What you're asking for is false balance between what a journalist believes is true and what they don't believe, which is the sort of logical fallacy which leads people to believe that these administrations are similarly bad because they're both heavily criticised.  
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22. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 31, 2017, 11:05 wtf_man
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 22:50:
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 20:52:
My point was no media is in the middle. I think they all have bias.

Ideology and bias are completely different things. Any alignment can be sincere, any can be biased. I'd say CNN is central, but biased towards shallow sensationalism.

CNN looks a bit right-wing to me, because I'm centre-left. It sounds like you're centre-right and, as per my original point, you half-believe Fox when they tell you that their competitors are the evil liberal media.

Ideology has no place in journalism (we're talking straight news stories here, not commentators that are purely opinion, and one knows it up front) . One can't be unbiased if they inject their ideology OPINION into the news story.

My beliefs in journalistic bias have nothing to do with Fox News nor even right-wing radio shows. Heck, I believe even a po-dunk newspaper in BFE America has bias, and that could be either left or right depending on the town. It all has to do with the way they report the news. Almost every reporter slants the news towards his/her point of view. And that is WRONG. Freedom of speech is one thing... using the power of the media to coerce people towards your personal beliefs is another.

Now, if your views mostly align with the reporters you are reading/listening to, and it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to have your personal views be blessed and confirmed by the media's views... well good for you, I guess.

That said... the inaccuracy being reported in this day and age to scoop the story is overwhelmingly rampant nowadays. For example: Take a non-partisan story like a local brush fire. One news outlet will say 5000 acres burned, another will say 10000, another will say 12000... then when the fire is out, they all say 6000 acres total burned.

My point is, one can't take anyone's reporting at face value. One has to wait for the actual result.

All the scare mongering of an administration doing this or that is just ridiculous. I mean that from both the Obama era and Trump era. Overly dramatized and usually inaccurate.
 
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21. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 31, 2017, 10:05 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 14:19:
WaltC wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:28:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 11:48:
Although tRump asserted Fox News should be left out of the contest, a Rasmussen poll found that about 40 percent of Americans think Fox News should receive the "Fake News Trophy." CNN came in second place with 25 percent of votes, followed by MSNBC with 9 percent. https://www.bustle.com/p/trumps-fake-news-trophy-winner-will-be-determined-by-this-poll-7711131

Most polls are worthless. It all depends on who you ask, and when, etc. People also take perverse delight in lying when polled--results are often fudged--you never know if they've been massaged, etc. As always, polls are no more than an attempt to manipulate public opinion. I will say that after decades of observation, I've never seen it as bad for fake news as it has been for the last two years--mostly from politically naive and biased entities like the NYT and the WaPo. CNN included. Certain segments of FOX are bad for Fake News--like Shepard Smith, especially (I had a dog named "Shep" as a boy--always reminds me of that.) When it comes to politics, they all seem to think that "freedom of the press" is "the right to lie" to the public. It isn't, as they've been learning to their mortification. Basically, I think they are mostly a bunch of lazy drunks who've decided that making up stuff is simply easier and more fun than working to dig up facts and reporting them objectively. Objective journalism is not difficult at all, but lying is even easier, no doubt...;) They've shot themselves in the head, mainly, as their credibility has never been lower. The negative reputations they've earned are well deserved, imo.

LOL, Shep Smith is the most honest reporter at Fox, and he's "the worst?"

The NYTimes is in the tank for Trump, but they're fake news? That softball interview they did with Trump yesterday was journalistic malpractice. At least the WaPo has been doing good reporting this year.

Seriously, you live in a bubble Walt. Post some links to back up your assertions. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

Everyone has some degree of thinking things they disagree with are wrong, but Walt is the worst here. More, even, than MA or littleme, one of whom believed pizza gate and the other believes flat earthers make good points.
 
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20. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 22:50 Quboid
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 20:52:
My point was no media is in the middle. I think they all have bias.

Ideology and bias are completely different things. Any alignment can be sincere, any can be biased. I'd say CNN is central, but biased towards shallow sensationalism.

CNN looks a bit right-wing to me, because I'm centre-left. It sounds like you're centre-right and, as per my original point, you half-believe Fox when they tell you that their competitors are the evil liberal media.
 
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19. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 20:52 wtf_man
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 13:24:
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:48:
CNN ain't center. By Far. However, I will concede that MSNBC is far more left.

Who is centre in the media? Are you politically central, or would you say you lean left or right?

My point was no media is in the middle. I think they all have bias. Journalism is suppose to report the facts. period. Not inject opinion or slant based on personal nor political views. Unfortunately just about all journalists does that, because main the reason most of them became journalists was to "change the world"... which is not the proper reason to become a journalist.

As far as my politics... I see myself as fairly center. Sometimes I lean a little right or left depending on what the issues is, but almost never to the extreme right or left.

Hell... I don't even think it's left vs. right as much as it is "densely populated areas" vs. "sparsely populated areas". The "rules" for these areas just don't work for one another. Completely different environments and issues.

/shrug
 
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18. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 19:58 Slashman
 
NKD wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 16:56:

Hardball interviews with Trump are a waste of time because we already know he's a moron and doesn't know anything about the shit he signs his name to.

Not to mention that any time you ask him something that's difficult to answer and he's lost on it, he will deflect and move to another topic. He will keep doing that until the interviewer shifts to something else.
 
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17. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 16:56 NKD
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 14:19:

The NYTimes is in the tank for Trump, but they're fake news? That softball interview they did with Trump yesterday was journalistic malpractice. At least the WaPo has been doing good reporting this year.

Nah man the interview was solid. Remember, it was an impromptu interview at Mar-a-Lago that the White House didn't even know was going down. Firing hardball questions at someone who can't even put together a coherent sentence is a waste of time. Letting homeboy ramble and sound like an Alzheimer's patient was a good call.

Hardball interviews with Trump are a waste of time because we already know he's a moron and doesn't know anything about the shit he signs his name to.
 
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I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you. Humans are too fucking stupid to listen.
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16. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 14:40 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 14:19:
The NYTimes is in the tank for Trump, but they're fake news? That softball interview they did with Trump yesterday was journalistic malpractice.
gotta disagree with you here, the interview was brilliant
Letting him ramble on so we could see what really goes on in the dotards mind, or doesn't, was pure gold.
From his repeating 16 different times about "no collusion" in Russia to making false or misleading statements “at a rate of one every 75 seconds”, you just can't make this shit up. Even fiction has to make sense.
Michael Schmidt defended his impromptu interview

Interview Shows a Man in Cognitive Decline
NPR Fact Check
more of the same

This comment was edited on Dec 30, 2017, 15:03.
 
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15. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 14:19 jdreyer
 
WaltC wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:28:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 11:48:
Although tRump asserted Fox News should be left out of the contest, a Rasmussen poll found that about 40 percent of Americans think Fox News should receive the "Fake News Trophy." CNN came in second place with 25 percent of votes, followed by MSNBC with 9 percent. https://www.bustle.com/p/trumps-fake-news-trophy-winner-will-be-determined-by-this-poll-7711131

Most polls are worthless. It all depends on who you ask, and when, etc. People also take perverse delight in lying when polled--results are often fudged--you never know if they've been massaged, etc. As always, polls are no more than an attempt to manipulate public opinion. I will say that after decades of observation, I've never seen it as bad for fake news as it has been for the last two years--mostly from politically naive and biased entities like the NYT and the WaPo. CNN included. Certain segments of FOX are bad for Fake News--like Shepard Smith, especially (I had a dog named "Shep" as a boy--always reminds me of that.) When it comes to politics, they all seem to think that "freedom of the press" is "the right to lie" to the public. It isn't, as they've been learning to their mortification. Basically, I think they are mostly a bunch of lazy drunks who've decided that making up stuff is simply easier and more fun than working to dig up facts and reporting them objectively. Objective journalism is not difficult at all, but lying is even easier, no doubt...;) They've shot themselves in the head, mainly, as their credibility has never been lower. The negative reputations they've earned are well deserved, imo.

LOL, Shep Smith is the most honest reporter at Fox, and he's "the worst?"

The NYTimes is in the tank for Trump, but they're fake news? That softball interview they did with Trump yesterday was journalistic malpractice. At least the WaPo has been doing good reporting this year.

Seriously, you live in a bubble Walt. Post some links to back up your assertions. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.
 
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14. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 14:06 jdreyer
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 11:56:
That all depends on ones politics.

Here's the deal. They ALL lie. They ALL have their political bias and agendas (some are more obvious than others). They ALL inject their opinions instead report the news / or both sides of the story equally.

The "truth" is always somewhere in the middle. Pretty much if you take the same story from CNN and FOX (for example), and are able to weed out the bullshit bias between the two stories... you can interpret what is fairly factual and hopefully COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSION, instead of being a lemming that swallows ALL of the kool-aid from one side or the other.

/shrug

Fox news lies more than all the others. Empirically. It's not even close. They are a propaganda outfit.

To summarize, pundit content rated True or Mostly True:
Fox - 21%
MSNBC - 33%
CNN - 57%
 
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13. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:30 NKD
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 11:56:

The "truth" is always somewhere in the middle.

This is a fallacy that depends on the idea that it is always beneficial for both sides of the political spectrum to lie about any given issue. That isn't true. Sometimes, one side stands to benefit from the truth, and the other side stands to benefit from the lie.

For example, the latest Hillary Clinton conspiracy theory, that not even the Republican administration will pursue, is not equivalent to the Trump-Russia investigation that has credible well-respected adults from across the political spectrum looking into it.

I mean the common belief among Trump supporters is that Hillary Clinton is behind a pedophile ring being run out of a pizza parlor, and the DNC had some guy named Seth Rich killed. There is literally zero evidence for any of this, they might as well be claiming Hillary Clinton is a Reptilian and Obama was born in Atlantis. This is not equivalent to some left leaning journalist being a little harsh towards Trump.

 
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12. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:26 RedEye9
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 13:24:
Who is centre in the media?
NPR.org
 
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11. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:24 Quboid
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:48:
CNN ain't center. By Far. However, I will concede that MSNBC is far more left.

Who is centre in the media? Are you politically central, or would you say you lean left or right?
 
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10. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:23 Luke
 
Internet freedom.....after faceshit that's gone freedom of speech....ehm no  
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9. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:20 HorrorScope
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:48:
CNN ain't center. By Far. However, I will concede that MSNBC is far more left.

Right now I don't think there can be anything that feels like a center with what is going on. I feel in general CNN is fairly center, but when one side and most notably the president is attacking free press, gets caught in lies constantly, create racial divides, says adolescent things... it won't feel centered because they are retaliating back against this absurdity. But if one was a respectable Republican as president, it would feel a lot more centered than now.
 
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8. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 13:17 HorrorScope
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 12:39:
It's not equal.

I agree with this. What is mainstream media, 90% of it? That means 90% are going along with a feed. 100% have the ability to take the feed and report it as-is or twist it or not even report it at all. If places started to twist it that 90% wouldn't be there, mainstream would not really exist in how it is used. So we all generally agree with such a thing as "mainstream media".

When the vast majority of the reports are in alignment, I go with that because it gets really difficult to orchestrate otherwise. If the mainstream was habitual liars there wouldn't be a mainstream report, there would be so many varied reports that there would be a loud call of "What the hell is going on here?".

Now lets look in more detail at the 10% that are different. Why are they? Is this 10% giving me what I feel is more of a true story? Is the 10% all over the map vs each other, aka they are lying and that makes their stories all unique and non-matching, sort of a dead giveaway to me. Or are they all the saying the same and after investigating I feel: This 10% is right, now what is up with the 90% here? What's going on? How are the able to organize this? OR do I find most of the time the 10% is in left-field. I won't answer that.

The point is they are all getting like feeds, why is 90% in agreement while the remainder 10% typically reporting something different? It becomes one of those law saying things... "News that tends to be reported by the vast majority, has a tendency to be more correct than those reported by a few." or "When everything is a conspiracy, nothing is a conspiracy.". Do you think all these entities are really that well run, that they can all collude in real-time? I don't know of businesses that well run.

When one says "they all lie", we should also be open and say all people lie, you, me & Mr. McGee. You ever think that politicians, think town level now, are nothing more than one of us wanting to get involved and with good intentions? That once you win, the town immediately thinks you are a lying crook and not even knowing you, but you know better, but no matter that is what they think. But then in time you will become a liar, as people hold you for answers and then sometimes you can't deliver because it just isn't possible, hence you are now a proven liar. SEE!!! I knew it! That the system makes you that way, even in your heart is in the right place, because you are now held to every word and life is dynamic.

One thing I don't trust in local politics is non-locals coming in from out of town running for office. To me that is National Politics trying to simply get their people in everywhere for their national agenda and not local one. That is one of my first keys in local politics, finding that bastard and X'ing them out. The last one my town had, came in with supersized development plans into a very small town, lost their ballots and quit mid-term because of it, their sugar money wasn't going to happen. Yeah that kind of shit.
 
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7. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 12:48 wtf_man
 
CNN ain't center. By Far. However, I will concede that MSNBC is far more left.  
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6. Re: Saturday Metaverse Dec 30, 2017, 12:39 Quboid
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 30, 2017, 11:56:
That all depends on ones politics.

Here's the deal. They ALL lie. They ALL have their political bias and agendas (some are more obvious than others). They ALL inject their opinions instead report the news / or both sides of the story equally.

The "truth" is always somewhere in the middle. Pretty much if you take the same story from CNN and FOX (for example), and are able to weed out the bullshit bias between the two stories... you can interpret what is fairly factual and hopefully COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSION, instead of being a lemming that swallows ALL of the kool-aid from one side or the other.

/shrug

It's not equal. That's how they get you; Fox, Brietbart, and so on say ever more ridiculous things and people believe half of it. The tobacco industry used this for decades, pretended that reality was half way between reality and fiction.

The notion that the truth is somewhere in the middle only works if both sides are acting in good faith, and there's not much of that going around anywhere. It also only works if you pick equivalent sources, not one centre and one quite far right as you did.

One of the most fervent critics of centre and left media posted an article here a few days ago saying as much, showing that left and centre media tend to do more research. And then there's James O'Keefe, he'd have no chance outside of conservative media.
 
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