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18. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 25, 2017, 23:54 Sepharo
 
Oh boy all these anecdotes and folksy common sense have convinced me!  
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17. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 25, 2017, 13:46 DukeFNukem
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 22:33:
Anyone who has used what is now the welfare system in America or worked for it can tell you without a doubt the rate of fraud is much higher than reported. But why would they? You don't bite the hand that feeds. They also know that the actual number of people living off the system that are able to work but just refuse to is far higher than you may think. So knowing the stats would be great but it will never happen since there is no way to get the real stats. People commiting fraud rarely rat themselves out.

I don't blame them. I blame the bleeding heart liberals. Just like I would blame a drug dealer giving the first taste for free. These people are hooked. They are going nowhere. Few break away from the system. Ask yourself why would they work? They can get more money free with little to no taxes by staying on the system. We will pay them to live while they have one child after another with no fathers. Have another child get a pay increase. Have an inspector show up to find anything that indicates a man is living in the house the amount of money they get is cut. Did you go beyond the legal number of years that we can give you free money? No worries we will send you to school and we will pay you more. When you get out of school we will employ you within the welfare department and you will still pay little to no taxes. Sounds great right? Maybe now you know why it takes so many people to cut those checks? Maybe you're getting a bit of a clue?

Those are only a few of the programs I have mentioned. There are a lot more. Most you have probably never heard of. Free cell phones? A full house of new furniture within a six months rent free living arrangement? Don't get me started on people from other countries coming here to retire and collecting social security even though they have never paid one cent into the system.

Just so we're clear I have less issue with these systems more so with the many ways people are allowed to game them. Again we can all believe that socialist systems works but they don't. If you think so you are bias, looking through rose colored glasses, or have zero experience with these systems. I am not saying that there aren't people that have been helped up that were then able to stand on their own carrying on a normal life outside of the welfare system but they are a small portion of those who have used the system.

The reason I know so much again is from experience. I have a close relative that works inside the system and a few not so close relatives that are gaming the system. Anyone with a fifth grade education can game this system. Thankfully the people of California have legalized weed because without the taxes the entire state would be bankrupt soon, very soon. Sorry, for responding now. Still I wish you all a merry Christmas and happy holidays.

Quality post. Somebody asking for statistics on the actual fraud and abuse of the welfare system is hilarious. Sure there are some people who use it legitimately. But it's ridiculous to think the abuse of the system is not not a serious issue. People will always game a system, ANY SYSTEM, to their advantage. It's called 'Human Nature'. When the non-working person can have the same lifestyle as the working person why should they work? And why should the working man continue to be stupid and work? For pride? Is that what you want? Of course people game the system. If somebody says they know X who games the system and you respond with I know person Y who "DOESN'T" game the system, then your score is 1 to 1. Yet you come to a conclusion that it's a majority in your favor? GMAFB! Obama was called the Food Stamp president for a reason, not just *#$^@^ and giggles. You want statistics Here you go.

http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content/uploads/Food-Stamps-Monthly.jpg

I don't blame the people either. It's human nature to want to live a lifestyle the easiest way possible. And if that's means gaming a system, the very SAME system that politicians game (or a better word might be "rig") for THEIR benefits, then so be it.

This United States was about to collapse on itself from the debt it owes other nations. Socialism is a wonderful idea in theory. But as Paranoid Jack says better than I do. It doesn't fail in theory. It fails, miserably, in practice. The only reason the United States isn't collapsing on itself yet is because of the constant "push" towards socialism by democrats and the constant "pull" from socialism by republicans. If the Democrats have their way long enough, this whole nation is toast.

P.S. You don't have to apologize for responding to a thread that's 2 days old. I just responded to a thread on another website that was 2+ years old. LoL. The Internet is immortal. That's just the way it is.

P.S.S. The most hilarious cartoon:

https://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wizard-of-id-parody.jpg

This comment was edited on Dec 25, 2017, 15:23.
 
Just because you aren't afraid of something doesn't it mean it can't hurt you...
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16. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 22:33 Paranoid Jack
 
Anyone who has used what is now the welfare system in America or worked for it can tell you without a doubt the rate of fraud is much higher than reported. But why would they? You don't bite the hand that feeds. They also know that the actual number of people living off the system that are able to work but just refuse to is far higher than you may think. So knowing the stats would be great but it will never happen since there is no way to get the real stats. People commiting fraud rarely rat themselves out.

I don't blame them. I blame the bleeding heart liberals. Just like I would blame a drug dealer giving the first taste for free. These people are hooked. They are going nowhere. Few break away from the system. Ask yourself why would they work? They can get more money free with little to no taxes by staying on the system. We will pay them to live while they have one child after another with no fathers. Have another child get a pay increase. Have an inspector show up to find anything that indicates a man is living in the house the amount of money they get is cut. Did you go beyond the legal number of years that we can give you free money? No worries we will send you to school and we will pay you more. When you get out of school we will employ you within the welfare department and you will still pay little to no taxes. Sounds great right? Maybe now you know why it takes so many people to cut those checks? Maybe you're getting a bit of a clue?

Those are only a few of the programs I have mentioned. There are a lot more. Most you have probably never heard of. Free cell phones? A full house of new furniture within a six months rent free living arrangement? Don't get me started on people from other countries coming here to retire and collecting social security even though they have never paid one cent into the system.

Just so we're clear I have less issue with these systems more so with the many ways people are allowed to game them. Again we can all believe that socialist systems works but they don't. If you think so you are bias, looking through rose colored glasses, or have zero experience with these systems. I am not saying that there aren't people that have been helped up that were then able to stand on their own carrying on a normal life outside of the welfare system but they are a small portion of those who have used the system.

The reason I know so much again is from experience. I have a close relative that works inside the system and a few not so close relatives that are gaming the system. Anyone with a fifth grade education can game this system. Thankfully the people of California have legalized weed because without the taxes the entire state would be bankrupt soon, very soon. Sorry, for responding now. Still I wish you all a merry Christmas and happy holidays.
 
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15. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 21:01 killer_roach
 
Slashman wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 18:10:
You know I'd love to see some actual factual statistics about all these people who are living comfortably on social care programs versus the poor bastards who have no fucking choice.

Because the first thing I hear from protesters (who have pretty much zero connection to the poor people in these programs) whenever these discussions come up is I know a guy who cheats the system and gets free X or Y from the government. I have yet to see any convincing statistics that this is the huge issue it inevitably gets presented as.

Most studies I've seen on fraud and abuse of welfare programs put the problem at around 0.25% of spending (on the low end) and 2% (on the high end).

In reality, the few instances of abuse get people angry, but the real issue is the massive amount of bureaucratic waste in the systems. It shouldn't cost that much or require that many people to basically cut checks, and yet it does.

Needless to say, most political debates about government spending seem to involve both sides cherry-picking corner cases that resonate with their supporters (minions?) and completely missing the major issues in play.
 
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14. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 18:10 Slashman
 
You know I'd love to see some actual factual statistics about all these people who are living comfortably on social care programs versus the poor bastards who have no fucking choice.

Because the first thing I hear from protesters (who have pretty much zero connection to the poor people in these programs) whenever these discussions come up is I know a guy who cheats the system and gets free X or Y from the government. I have yet to see any convincing statistics that this is the huge issue it inevitably gets presented as.
 
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13. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 14:57 HorrorScope
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 13:00:
Socialism doesn't fail in theory it fails in practice. Why? Our species will always look for the easy out. The free money. Socialism also fails because it is the dream that those in power will not hoard the wealth nor abuse their power to enrich themselves.

And when looking for the easy way out, that forces laws and regulations into existence, as they harm an entity who takes them to court. Laws and Regulations are mostly created on situations that force such things to exist, not just because we're big meanies wanting to control, there was an attempt made to do it with less control, but it only takes one person/situation, right?
 
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12. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 14:54 HorrorScope
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 00:26:
Saboth wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:33:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:16:
There is no good news when you're layed off, the $1000 is a joke and won't even cover most folks house payment. More drumpf lies.

With healthcare going up due to Trump and the GOP, and Republicans trying to destroy what little healthcare system we have left, they'd better save that $1,000 in case they get sick. Whatever "tax refund" people get from the Tax Scam will most likely be eaten up by much higher healthcare premiums as the GOP continuously attacks our only healthcare system while having absolutely nothing to replace it with.

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.

There are articles discussing medical insurance costs. Medical costs have been outpacing inflation for decades, it was always spiraling upward. But here is the thing with new laws, it give companies a way to mask their desires. The biggest difference pre & post AHA is the deductibles went up. Companies certainly used AHA as the reason, but many stories revolving around companies who wanted to move to this model for a while and this was the springboard they needed to sell it. For decades the saying was "Any doubt go see a Dr.", this cost companies a lot of money. The way to stop that is to build an initial wall of costs so large that people would think 3 times before going to the Dr. It has worked bigly, what many have is catastrophic insurance, only use it when in a total emergency. ER visits are also now greatly frowned upon and have their own separate deductibles now because of ridiculous costs. This isn't AHA driven it is a cost problem. And what has popped up in ER's place? "Urgent Care", the cheap(er) alternative.

This is the same thing with the Enron law that came about in the mid 2000's under Bush. We are going to protect the people so they don't lose everything when a company goes belly up in the manner Enron lied to the public quarterly. What happened? Companies cut back massively in traditional retirement packages, these rules now are to strict. But they were wanting to get out of the traditional retirement for years. This is just another time when a law allowed companies to redo a problem to their way and blame the law.
 
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11. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 13:00 Paranoid Jack
 
Socialism doesn't fail in theory it fails in practice. Why? Our species will always look for the easy out. The free money. Socialism also fails because it is the dream that those in power will not hoard the wealth nor abuse their power to enrich themselves.  
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10. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 12:17 DukeFNukem
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 11:10:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 07:32:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 00:26:

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.
Everyone I know who has healthcare through the Affordable Care Act are paying $35 dollars a month and loves it. Are some paying more, sure, it's based on income.

PS The ACA is still going strong, drumpf and the republicons have failed at killing it but they did decrease rich peoples taxes, go figure.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and make sure to only get your news from Fox Noise/Britebart.

Too funny, I don't watch Fox nor do I watch any of the channels that I'm guessing you're watching. I know most of what I know about Obamacare from experience. I see it on my check every two weeks. I will take what you say on faith and assume that we must be on the other ends of the spectrum. Can't say that I am happy for you and your friends paying a tenth of what I pay for the same coverage. Now why is that?

Please, research Venezuela. I know they don't even show that part of the world on the map let alone talk about what is happening there currently on those channels you're watching. Just in case you are still not up to speed on socialism... it doesn't work.

The company I work for now pays just shy of 2k a month for my health care. Just me? Yes, just me. I had to drop my wife from my coverage or be forced to pay more than twenty times what you and your friends pay per month. Of course since the government and health care industry are forcing them to pay more... I pay more. Socialism will never work. Do some research... history has proven that repeatedly.

I'm no rocket scientist but I've know for most of my adult life that the government can not give you anything without first taking it from somebody else. But hey, keep the dream alive... Bernie in 2020!

I think socialism can work in theory. The whole art of socialism hinges on keeping it in balance. That is, if you have more hard working people producing than you have lazy bastards sitting around collecting food stamps and free medical care than the system can work perfectly fine. But when the hard working people realize that life is easier on the lazy bastards side and lose the incentive to work then the whole system ultiimately collapses upon itself.
 
Just because you aren't afraid of something doesn't it mean it can't hurt you...
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9. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 11:10 Paranoid Jack
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 07:32:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 00:26:

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.
Everyone I know who has healthcare through the Affordable Care Act are paying $35 dollars a month and loves it. Are some paying more, sure, it's based on income.

PS The ACA is still going strong, drumpf and the republicons have failed at killing it but they did decrease rich peoples taxes, go figure.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and make sure to only get your news from Fox Noise/Britebart.

Too funny, I don't watch Fox nor do I watch any of the channels that I'm guessing you're watching. I know most of what I know about Obamacare from experience. I see it on my check every two weeks. I will take what you say on faith and assume that we must be on the other ends of a few spectrums. Can't say that I am happy for you (or your friends) paying a tenth of what I pay for the same coverage. Now why is that? Going out on a limb by what you have just stated that must mean I am making ten to twenty times what your friends (and you) are making per month. WTF! That would mean you are actually working in some sweatshop in China? Are you? If I do the math... divide my wage by ten... shit, you must be in a third world country working for damn near nothing?

Seriously though, please, research Venezuela. I know they don't even show that part of the world on the map let alone talk about what is happening there currently on those channels you're watching. Just in case you are still not up to speed on socialism... it doesn't work.

The company I work for now pays just shy of 2k a month for my health care. Just me? Yes, just me. I had to drop my wife from my coverage or be forced to pay more than twenty times what you and your friends pay per month. Of course since the government and health care industry are forcing them to pay more... I pay more. Socialism will never work. Do some research... history has proven that repeatedly.

Look I am an average guy. I am not rich. What I have in life is from my continual effort to provide for myself and my family. I've busted my ass and ruined my back working hard my entire life. My last two years of high school I went half days. I worked the other half until the lumberyard closed. Then I went to work at the pizza place until they closed. Saturdays and Sundays too. That is how I was raised. That is how I got what I have. So I don't sit here wishing that those above me on the economic ladder will miss a rung and fall off. Why would I? Again I'm no rocket scientist. I'm an average guy. Still I've known for most of my adult life that the government can not give you anything without first taking it from somebody else. But hey, keep that dream alive... Bernie in 2020!

This comment was edited on Dec 23, 2017, 12:49.
 
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8. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 08:14 Ozmodan
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 07:32:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 00:26:

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.
Everyone I know who has healthcare through the Affordable Care Act are paying $35 dollars a month and loves it. Are some paying more, sure, it's based on income.

PS The ACA is still going strong, drumpf and the republicons have failed at killing it but they did decrease rich peoples taxes, go figure.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and make sure to only get your news from Fox Noise/Britebart.

Sorry but you are wrong. Not a Trump fan, but lowering the corporate tax rate was a no brainer. You do realize that 64% of jobs in this country come from small business. This tax cut will help them immensely. Canada cut their corporate tax rate to 15% and watched a bunch of US firms move there. Guess what they ended up not losing any revenue. While there are many provisions of the new tax plan I don't like, lowering the corporate tax rate was huge. It will pay big dividends for the future. Seems you get your fake news from other media sources, you really can't trust any of them.
 
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7. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 07:32 RedEye9
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Dec 23, 2017, 00:26:

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.
Everyone I know who has healthcare through the Affordable Care Act are paying $35 dollars a month and loves it. Are some paying more, sure, it's based on income.

PS The ACA is still going strong, drumpf and the republicons have failed at killing it but they did decrease rich peoples taxes, go figure.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and make sure to only get your news from Fox Noise/Britebart.
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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6. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 00:26 Paranoid Jack
 
Saboth wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:33:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:16:
There is no good news when you're layed off, the $1000 is a joke and won't even cover most folks house payment. More drumpf lies.

With healthcare going up due to Trump and the GOP, and Republicans trying to destroy what little healthcare system we have left, they'd better save that $1,000 in case they get sick. Whatever "tax refund" people get from the Tax Scam will most likely be eaten up by much higher healthcare premiums as the GOP continuously attacks our only healthcare system while having absolutely nothing to replace it with.

We had a health care system long before Obama turned it into a health care tax system. I'm not saying it was great but it sure was a lot cheaper before Obamacare. Do you know anyone that didn't have their health care at least double if not triple during his presidency? Don't worry though I am sure somebody you like better will be in office sooner or later to help us all toward socialized medicine and a universal living wage.
 
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5. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 23, 2017, 00:17 Paranoid Jack
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:16:
There is no good news when you're layed off, the $1000 is a joke and won't even cover most folks house payment. More drumpf lies.

Not sure what this has to do with drumpf... but 1k is always better than 0k with my math. The bonus is being offered to all at&t and Comcast employees. Not sure if any other corporations are doing the same. I hope they all are since they are all getting one HELL of a tax cut.

I take it you don't agree with it? When you tax your corporations higher than any other place on the planet they will leave to greener pastures. Economists have been trying to explain that to the government for decades.
 
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4. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 22, 2017, 20:33 Saboth
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 22, 2017, 20:16:
There is no good news when you're layed off, the $1000 is a joke and won't even cover most folks house payment. More drumpf lies.

With healthcare going up due to Trump and the GOP, and Republicans trying to destroy what little healthcare system we have left, they'd better save that $1,000 in case they get sick. Whatever "tax refund" people get from the Tax Scam will most likely be eaten up by much higher healthcare premiums as the GOP continuously attacks our only healthcare system while having absolutely nothing to replace it with.
 
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3. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 22, 2017, 20:16 RedEye9
 
There is no good news when you're layed off, the $1000 is a joke and won't even cover most folks house payment. More drumpf lies.  
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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2. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 22, 2017, 19:57 Paranoid Jack
 
This is round two currently. These cuts would have and/or should have happened a year ago but the contracts were not yet ratified. When DirecTV was brought on in some places the company had twice the number of employees, instantly. DirecTV employees don't install POTS, Internet, VOIP, or any fiber fed services of any type. The Prem Techs do it all to include satellite. So with little work on their side yet DirecTV techs working ten hour days the writing was on the wall. Just wait until 2020 when they move off satellite onto 5G. DirecTV techs will be SOL.

I saw this coming two years ago. Feel badly for a lot of good employees getting let go. Being recent hires with less than three years service didn't make it any easier for them I'm sure. Most are still on the clock until the 5th of January. Still sucks.

The good news is that the signing of the new tax bill means they will all hopefully get that 1k bonus on top of their severance packages.
 
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1. Re: Evening Metaverse Dec 22, 2017, 19:27 Cutter
 
Ahh good to see all those positive benefits from the death of NN and huge corporate handouts and tax cuts! I wonder how many of those employers are GOP supporters, lol!
 
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"They call me a chauvinist pig. I am . . . and I don't give a damn!" - Steve McQueen
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