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Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions

Obsidian announces that their upcoming RPG will not contain any sort of loot boxes or microtransactions, taking a proactive approach to decrying these features that have a attracted a lot of negative attention and controversy lately (thanks DSOGaming). So now we know more about what the game won't have than what it will. What we do know is that it will be an RPG, it will have a title, it will be published through Take-Two's new label Private Division, and that development is being led by Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky. Here's word:

We’re extremely excited about our upcoming RPG, and we know you are too. We wish we could tell you all about it right now… but we’re going to hold off until the time is right. What we did want to talk about was a question a lot of you have been raising: “Will this upcoming game feature any lootboxes or other microtransactions?”

The answer is simply: “no.” No microtransactions, of any kind, in our game.

We also wanted to say a word about our partnership with Private Division, our publisher on this title. Far from “pushing” us to put anything -- microtransactions or otherwise -- into our game, Private Division has been incredibly supportive of our vision, our creative freedom, and the process by which we work to make RPGs. They have been fantastic partners, and we are extremely excited to work with them through release, to put what we know is going to be an amazing game into as many hands as possible.

As always, thank you so much for your support. We know we couldn’t do what we do without our fans, and we want you to know that we put you guys first in every decision we make.

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32 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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32. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 18, 2017, 01:07 GothicWizard
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 17, 2017, 04:00:
If Obsidian did make another Vampire game with Paradox, it most certainly would not be 3D. Paradox doesn't have the money to make a 3D RPG like Bloodlines. It would likely be a 2D, isometric affair which I'm fine with but a lot of people wouldn't be.

I am not saying either case, I don't know the particulars of what specific ideas or discussions were had. Only that some causal conversations about acquiring the VtM license from paradox to do a vampire game were had and if they do end up doing such
Tim/Len will be a big part of the project. Other then that it's all speculation on my part.

That said I can think of worse things to buy then a NWN2 style VtM CRPG. I'd be in.
 
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31. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 17, 2017, 08:44 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Armengar wrote on Dec 17, 2017, 07:18:

really? games in the 90s didnt really NEED dlc or expansions they were simply decent games duke nukem, shadow warrior, quake, wolfenstein? elite (to be fair that was 80s really) frontier, freelancer? interstate 76, just about ANY scumm engined game. or maybe any lucasarts game. dont even start on xwing/tie fighter/etc.


I think you may need to skip the expansions then and replay Doom, Quake, etc. The original Doom is only 6 hours long, if that. Seriously, load it up again: you'll be done with Knee Deep in the Dead in 45 minutes. Quake was a little longer, but it's only going to take longer than 8 hours if you've set the difficulty on Nightmare.

The point is that these were not long games. If they felt longer at the time, it's probably because we were all less proficient at the then relatively new genre of First Person Shooters. In terms of actual content length however, the shooters of yesteryear were by and large no longer than they are today.
 
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30. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 17, 2017, 07:18 Armengar
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 17:55:
For those reminiscing about the meatiness of 90s era shooter expansion packs, I strongly urge you to play one, or several, again: your play through will not break 5 hours, and most will last between 3 and 4 hours. Don't get me wrong; some of those expansions were truly excellent (I'm particularly fond of Opposing Force, and Quake 2's first expansion) but they did not offer dramatically more content than a typical $15-20 DLC today. (Opposing Force is a bit of an exception since it had so many new weapons, monsters, multiplayer maps, and an official CTF mode with runes, even if its core campaign is only about 4 hours long.)

really? games in the 90s didnt really NEED dlc or expansions they were simply decent games duke nukem, shadow warrior, quake, wolfenstein? elite (to be fair that was 80s really) frontier, freelancer? interstate 76, just about ANY scumm engined game. or maybe any lucasarts game. dont even start on xwing/tie fighter/etc.

im struggling to think of many 90s games that weren't long lasting in terms of gameplay. i can reel off plenty of 80s games too.
 
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29. Re: Skyrim Creation Club Launches with Survival Mode Dec 17, 2017, 05:41 mellis
 
Kajetan wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:52:
you will probably LOOSE money by doing so.

Lose.
 
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28. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 17, 2017, 04:00 Jerykk
 
GothicWizard wrote on Dec 17, 2017, 01:22:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 20:01:
GothicWizard wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 19:10:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 10:30:
Hope Tim is doing something in the vein of Fallout. I'd rather see a new CRPG in some setting other than high fantasy, particularly from him.

I have it from a former employee they are working on their own post apoc CRPG. Since Obsidian can't get Fallout they decided to make their own fallout like IP with the original Fallout devs.

Seeing as Tim and Len were Fallout I'm pretty fucking stoked if that's the case. Regardless, Tim is one of my fave game devs so it'll be day one for me regardless of what it is but a new post-apoc game from him would be win icing on the awesome cake!

Cake


Then you may also be excited to hear after this game, assuming it does well, there has been some talks in making another VtM game, a bloodlines spiritual successor if you will. Since Obsidian already has a working relationship with the new owners of the vampire IP it would make sense.

FYI

If Obsidian did make another Vampire game with Paradox, it most certainly would not be 3D. Paradox doesn't have the money to make a 3D RPG like Bloodlines. It would likely be a 2D, isometric affair which I'm fine with but a lot of people wouldn't be.
 
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27. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 17, 2017, 01:22 GothicWizard
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 20:01:
GothicWizard wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 19:10:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 10:30:
Hope Tim is doing something in the vein of Fallout. I'd rather see a new CRPG in some setting other than high fantasy, particularly from him.

I have it from a former employee they are working on their own post apoc CRPG. Since Obsidian can't get Fallout they decided to make their own fallout like IP with the original Fallout devs.

Seeing as Tim and Len were Fallout I'm pretty fucking stoked if that's the case. Regardless, Tim is one of my fave game devs so it'll be day one for me regardless of what it is but a new post-apoc game from him would be win icing on the awesome cake!

Cake


Then you may also be excited to hear after this game, assuming it does well, there has been some talks in making another VtM game, a bloodlines spiritual successor if you will. Since Obsidian already has a working relationship with the new owners of the vampire IP it would make sense.

FYI
 
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26. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 17, 2017, 00:36 Asmodai
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 14:35:
Slick wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:47:
I wonder if this game will have any sort of post-launch DLC that they charge money for. Call me a literalist, but if you charge $14.99 for content not included in the original vanilla game... that's a fucking microtransaction.


It's a transaction, but it's not micro. I'd say something over $5 and largely self-contained (so more than just a weapon that affects the main game's balance, for example) is fine, as long as it's not filling a glaring omission in the base game.

Micro transactions are pretty easy to specify. Cosmetic unlocks (skins etc), extra stash capacity and so on.

Path of Exile is an excellent example of a game done proper. Some of their "micro" transactions are vast (ie. expansion major support packs running in to the thousands) but the entire game is available and free to play. I've spent perhaps 100 bucks on things like stash tabs in that game without a 2nd thought as I've played the game for over a thousand hours. That's a model I can fully get behind, nothing is required to play the game and everything you buy rewards the creators for their hard work.
 
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25. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 17, 2017, 00:35 Suppa7
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 17:55:
For those reminiscing about the meatiness of 90s era shooter expansion packs,

You seemed to miss the part with level editors that came with games. The build editor in duke nukem, descent, warcraft, etc. AAA gaming post 90's has been an utter fucking disaster.

We no longer get dedicated servers with most games and if they have some kind of server option they are completely controlled by the company. AKA we lost control of the software completely. The matchmaking bs is just drm by another name.

RPG's were rebranded mmo and went largely totally autocombat - aka combat systems devolved into watch fests because the average mmo player is a reflexless chimpanzee.
 
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24. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 16, 2017, 21:48 LC
 
Troika pretty much killed my enthusiasm for Cain and Boyarsky games. But I'm still hoping they'll put out something decent. And without AI controlled party members.

 
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23. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 16, 2017, 21:02 Pepe
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 17:55:
For those reminiscing about the meatiness of 90s era shooter expansion packs, I strongly urge you to play one, or several, again: your play through will not break 5 hours, and most will last between 3 and 4 hours. Don't get me wrong; some of those expansions were truly excellent (I'm particularly fond of Opposing Force, and Quake 2's first expansion) but they did not offer dramatically more content than a typical $15-20 DLC today. (Opposing Force is a bit of an exception since it had so many new weapons, monsters, multiplayer maps, and an official CTF mode with runes, even if its core campaign is only about 4 hours long.)

seeing I play trough a bunch of AAA games in less the 8 hours an expac for 3-4 hours depending on the game would be nice.
COD ADV war took me 7 hours
COD BO II took me 6 hours
F.E.A.R. took 8

Games used to last longer due to beeing fixed levels with lots of backtracking iso of the on rails gameplay you get now (not that there is anything wrong with either.)

Borderlands 2, the witcher 3 did the expac thing right IMO among others, but if you look at some games opn steam with 3k worth of MTX's I think that's overdoing it a bit.

 
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22. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 20:01 Cutter
 
GothicWizard wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 19:10:
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 10:30:
Hope Tim is doing something in the vein of Fallout. I'd rather see a new CRPG in some setting other than high fantasy, particularly from him.

I have it from a former employee they are working on their own post apoc CRPG. Since Obsidian can't get Fallout they decided to make their own fallout like IP with the original Fallout devs.

Seeing as Tim and Len were Fallout I'm pretty fucking stoked if that's the case. Regardless, Tim is one of my fave game devs so it'll be day one for me regardless of what it is but a new post-apoc game from him would be win icing on the awesome cake!

Cake

 
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"They call me a chauvinist pig. I am . . . and I don't give a damn!" - Steve McQueen
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21. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 16, 2017, 19:18 Slick
 
Slashman wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 18:55:
Personally, I don't care about microtransactions as long as they are cosmetic only. I begin to get real fucking annoyed when they are selling overpowered weapons and armor that completely turn multiplayer on its head for the people who DON'T dip into the scheme.


Of course.

The only games that I've personally played that do this however are APB: Reloaded and Black Desert Online. One of which is F2P, and the other is practically F2P.

Games have been $50-60 USD for a long time, and people show real resistance to paying more than that, if they could even be asked to pay that amount (many wait for a sale). So I don't know what the solution is, but I think it's a varient of MTX.

We need to get the people that can drop $10,000 on a game to do that, without them getting ridiculous rewards for it. If it's just convenience ie. I can get the EXACT same shit they can through a grind, then I don't see what the terrible shit is.

They ONLY have to do it so they don't have MTX at launch. Give it 2 months. People just paid FULL PRICE for a brand new game, they should be rewarded for the hours they put in for at least a couple of months before they open it up to the deep pockets. But those deep pockets could very well save gaming from sur-$60 prices, and eliminate the divisive practise of season passes.

Look at Destiny 2. I've had it for a little over a month, and I'm already behind cause I didn't buy the DLC, it's ABSURD. That shit is FAR WORSE of a deal to me than letting rich people bankroll development for me. As long as I can still earn all the shit they have just by playing the game. I don't understand how this is a controversial thing. At it's core it's very good towards gamers.
 
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20. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 19:10 GothicWizard
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 10:30:
Hope Tim is doing something in the vein of Fallout. I'd rather see a new CRPG in some setting other than high fantasy, particularly from him.

I have it from a former employee they are working on their own post apoc CRPG. Since Obsidian can't get Fallout they decided to make their own fallout like IP with the original Fallout devs.
 
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19. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 16, 2017, 18:55 Slashman
 
Personally, I don't care about microtransactions as long as they are cosmetic only. I begin to get real fucking annoyed when they are selling overpowered weapons and armor that completely turn multiplayer on its head for the people who DON'T dip into the scheme.

 
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18. Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 16, 2017, 17:55 Scottish Martial Arts
 
For those reminiscing about the meatiness of 90s era shooter expansion packs, I strongly urge you to play one, or several, again: your play through will not break 5 hours, and most will last between 3 and 4 hours. Don't get me wrong; some of those expansions were truly excellent (I'm particularly fond of Opposing Force, and Quake 2's first expansion) but they did not offer dramatically more content than a typical $15-20 DLC today. (Opposing Force is a bit of an exception since it had so many new weapons, monsters, multiplayer maps, and an official CTF mode with runes, even if its core campaign is only about 4 hours long.)  
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17. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 16:39 Slick
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 14:35:
Slick wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:47:
I wonder if this game will have any sort of post-launch DLC that they charge money for. Call me a literalist, but if you charge $14.99 for content not included in the original vanilla game... that's a fucking microtransaction.


It's a transaction, but it's not micro. I'd say something over $5 and largely self-contained (so more than just a weapon that affects the main game's balance, for example) is fine, as long as it's not filling a glaring omission in the base game.

Alright, so the main complaint against battlefront was that it would cost $3000 to unlock everything via "micro" transactions. I honestly don't think that people were that upset with people who would honest-to-god only spend $5. "Micro transactions" seem to be targeted at the 1% of big spenders that will drop a paycheque on it.

It's a bit of a semantic argument, and I understand the differece between an item, skin etc. and a map pack. My point is that both cost money after-the-fact. And there's a GREAT deal of uncertainty about what exactly people are mad about in the recent furore.

"Lootboxes" aren't a problem, as chance loot drops have been in games since the beginning. "MTX"es I don't really think are the problem either, if they're not just a cash grab, but a way to pay for post-launch content (expansions) for everyone.

I think what people were really mad about (and rightly so) is the idea of paid progression. That's the term that people should focus their anger on. That to me makes total sense. The idea of someone paying money and being able to do the equivalent of 1000 hours of grind in 5 seconds. That's a problem.

There's still many caveats with regards to my pet cause SWBF2 (I'm a DICE fanboy, get over it), because for the normal trooper classes there are zero starcards that affect health, or weapon damage. If you can outshoot someone, you'll still win everytime. The WEAPONS themselves are HUGELY important in this dmg/hp balance, and you can only unlock them by getting kills (not even assists, needs to be a full "kill"). You need 500 kills to get the 4th weapon in any class, and that's the only thing that will make you kill other people quicker. A pretty fundamental point that has been utterly glossed over because "lootboxes" is the only thing people care about.
 
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16. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 16:38 Cutter
 
Slick wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:47:
I wonder if this game will have any sort of post-launch DLC that they charge money for. Call me a literalist, but if you charge $14.99 for content not included in the original vanilla game... that's a fucking microtransaction.


Horse armor is a microtransaction. An expansion/DLC that adds new content in the form of more game that can be played - new story, quests, etc. - is an entirely different beast.
 
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15. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 15:51 Jerykk
 
Slick wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:47:
I wonder if this game will have any sort of post-launch DLC that they charge money for. Call me a literalist, but if you charge $14.99 for content not included in the original vanilla game... that's a fucking microtransaction.

Not really. Microtransactions refer to payments for things like loot boxes, in-game currency, early unlocks, etc. You're paying money in order to speed up progression. Paying money for meaningful new content is not a microtransaction.

Publishers love microtransactions because they don't have any real cost (aside from the initial system implementation). It's pure profit. DLC, on the other hand, requires developers to actually create content and that costs money.
 
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14. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 15:49 CJ_Parker
 
Another all-time low has been reached in gaming land where devs and publishers are now getting a celebration for not putting disgusting scam mechanics in their games. Yippppiiiiiiieeee! /golfclap

We keep hitting these new all-time lows on a very consistent basis now. Makes ya wonder what's on the shit plate for next year...

Generally a very sad state of affairs. MTX and loot boxes have been made popular by fucktard games like Overwatch, LoL, Destiny as well as various EA and Ubishit games.
Dumb, weak gamers keep gobbling this shit down like it's not shit but caviar, not realizing how they are digging their own graves.

Any guesses what may be on the shit plate for next year? A return of episodic games maybe (as if season pass piecemeal shit isn't episodes in disguise already) but with monthly mini-episodes of 15 minutes at a time? That'd be supercool wouldn't it? Getting all that juicy content faster!
 
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13. Re: Obsidian Denounces Loot Boxes and Microtransactions Dec 16, 2017, 15:35 jacobvandy
 
Slick wrote on Dec 16, 2017, 11:47:
I wonder if this game will have any sort of post-launch DLC that they charge money for. Call me a literalist, but if you charge $14.99 for content not included in the original vanilla game... that's a fucking microtransaction.


No it isn't. To use Elder Scrolls as an example, Oblivion had microtransactions (horse armor, new spells, themed hideouts) as well as expansions (Knights of the Nine, Shivering Isles). Skyrim only had expansions, although Hearthfire was borderline..
 
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