Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Morning Legal Briefs

View
15 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >

15. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 18:39 Dacote
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 16:06:
Creston wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 12:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:42:
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.
No one can explain this to you. You're a basket case.

Two years from now when his ISP makes him buy a package of websites he can access for $49.99 a month in addition to his regular service fee of $149 for 10/2mbps, in addition to Netflix having to charge him $75 a month to make up for the fees charged to it by Comcast/AT&T/Verizon (THEY'RE RIDING OUR PIPES FOR FREE!)

maybe he'll get it. I mean, probably not, but maybe. After it, it was a whole two years ago that all ISPs were fucking over Netflix to shake money out of them, and all the Ajit Pai asskissers conveniently have forgotten that. Or how about AT&T BLOCKING facetime traffic because they wanted to force people to use AT&T shitty videocomms app? Or blocking payment systems to force people to use their own shitty wallet system? They don't remember any of that.

So yeah, there's no need to worry. The sky won't fall, everything will be fine. Trust the ISPs. Competition will keep them honest, even if 99% of them have no competition anywhere.

I would roll my eyes, but I'd have to do it so hard I'm worried it'd hurt my neck.

snip Hmmm.

After several posts answering your question and a link to a previous very thorough discussion, you still don't get it and prefer to troll. sad

Redeye, I hate to say it but you were right.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 18:00 RedEye9
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 16:06:
I'm rich ... And more derp
For a second there I thought you'd said you were smart, lol.
If you're monied it's obviously inherited, please know that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Watching Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At All
 
Avatar 58135
 
https://www.lawfareblog.com/topic/russia-connection
The game’s afoot.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/fact-checker-most-repeated-disinformation/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 17:08 Mr. Tact
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 16:06:
I'm rich so all of these problems are for gas jockey basement dwellers. That being said, everything said here is all *speculation*, nothing happened pre-2015, nothing will happen post 2017, and if something does, the market will sort it out.
You mean besides ISPs getting caught throttling Netflix throughput? I'm not going to waste my time looking for the links. But http://www.dslreports.com/ would probably be a good place to start looking. The reason NN came about is because ISPs were engaging in these "questionable" activities. I'm pretty sure other services were affected, but Netflix is the only one I remember off the top of my head.

Do us all a favor, go troll somewhere else.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 16:06 ledhead1969
 
Creston wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 12:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:42:
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.
No one can explain this to you. You're a basket case.

Two years from now when his ISP makes him buy a package of websites he can access for $49.99 a month in addition to his regular service fee of $149 for 10/2mbps, in addition to Netflix having to charge him $75 a month to make up for the fees charged to it by Comcast/AT&T/Verizon (THEY'RE RIDING OUR PIPES FOR FREE!)

maybe he'll get it. I mean, probably not, but maybe. After it, it was a whole two years ago that all ISPs were fucking over Netflix to shake money out of them, and all the Ajit Pai asskissers conveniently have forgotten that. Or how about AT&T BLOCKING facetime traffic because they wanted to force people to use AT&T shitty videocomms app? Or blocking payment systems to force people to use their own shitty wallet system? They don't remember any of that.

So yeah, there's no need to worry. The sky won't fall, everything will be fine. Trust the ISPs. Competition will keep them honest, even if 99% of them have no competition anywhere.

I would roll my eyes, but I'd have to do it so hard I'm worried it'd hurt my neck.

I'm rich so all of these problems are for gas jockey basement dwellers. That being said, everything said here is all *speculation*, nothing happened pre-2015, nothing will happen post 2017, and if something does, the market will sort it out.

I get you all want your asses wiped by the government, your free shit, and other such absurdities, but the best way to improve something is to get the government out of it completely.

But yea, Blues is a cesspool of snowflake's and commies and I get that but, once again, nothing happened pre-2015. If things were soooo bad why didn't your messiah institute NN in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014? Why? Hmmm.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 12:56 Mr. Tact
 
Creston wrote on Dec 13, 2017, 12:29:
We don't have to elect all federal officials. Just the commissioners. There's 5 people on the FCC. I'm sure we can handle electing them. Same for the other commissions.

And then they have to report to Congress/Senate.
Even if you are right about that, it just means it would be national elections. You think a populace which elected Trump is capable of being competent to elect commissioners to regulatory agencies? Maybe it is just my cynicism getting in the way, but it seems like a poor idea.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 12:29 Creston
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 12:08:
Well... there are literally thousands of federal positions, it would be worse if we tried to elect them all. That said, here's to hoping karma does exist and Pai gets a just return...

We don't have to elect all federal officials. Just the commissioners. There's 5 people on the FCC. I'm sure we can handle electing them. Same for the other commissions.

And then they have to report to Congress/Senate.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 12:24 Creston
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:42:
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.
No one can explain this to you. You're a basket case.

Two years from now when his ISP makes him buy a package of websites he can access for $49.99 a month in addition to his regular service fee of $149 for 10/2mbps, in addition to Netflix having to charge him $75 a month to make up for the fees charged to it by Comcast/AT&T/Verizon (THEY'RE RIDING OUR PIPES FOR FREE!)

maybe he'll get it. I mean, probably not, but maybe. After it, it was a whole two years ago that all ISPs were fucking over Netflix to shake money out of them, and all the Ajit Pai asskissers conveniently have forgotten that. Or how about AT&T BLOCKING facetime traffic because they wanted to force people to use AT&T shitty videocomms app? Or blocking payment systems to force people to use their own shitty wallet system? They don't remember any of that.

So yeah, there's no need to worry. The sky won't fall, everything will be fine. Trust the ISPs. Competition will keep them honest, even if 99% of them have no competition anywhere.

I would roll my eyes, but I'd have to do it so hard I'm worried it'd hurt my neck.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 02:15 jdreyer
 
NegaDeath wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 21:08:
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

There was net neutrality pre-2015, the FCC was enforcing it with growing regularity. In 2014 their ability to do so under Title I was struck down, forcing the move to Title II.

"In 2008, the FCC ordered Comcast to stop slowing BitTorrent traffic on its network. Thompson argues that the Comcast case is insignificant because Comcast had stopped throttling BitTorrent by the time the FCC issued its order. But the real importance of the case was a federal-court ruling that the FCC didn’t have authority to regulate Comcast’s internet service, in part because it wasn't a Title II service."


The FCC approved net-neutrality rules in 2010, but was sued by Verizon. In 2014, the same federal court again ruled that the FCC would need to reclassify broadband providers as Title II services in order to enforce its rules."


Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Those negatives were beginning to take over the internet before 2015.

"AT&T blocked Apple’s FaceTime and Google’s Hangouts video chat services for the preposterously silly reason that the apps were "preloaded" on each company’s phones instead of downloaded from an app store. Verizon and AT&T have each blocked the Google Wallet mobile payment system because they’re partners in the competing (and not very good) ISIS service. Comcast customers who stream video on their Xboxes using Microsoft’s services get charged against their data caps, but the Comcast service is tax-free."

Also keep in mind that the ISP landscape has changed drastically in the last 20 years. Consolidations and buyouts led to ISP's also holding significant media/information/other service assets. The search for profit being what it is incentivized them to prioritize networks for their own products, as a store might prioritize its own in house-brand on shelves. And without meaningful competition there would be no market forces to resist it.

and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.

And I remember very vocal discussions, with multiple people being very worried that Tom Wheeler was going to do what Pai is doing now only to be pleasantly surprised he didn't. For example of this debate here is this rather long thread here.

Nice callback. Man, that was a long thread.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 13, 2017, 02:05 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 11:57:
I think this Ajit Pai bullshit is showing us that the whole concept of a Commission is flawed. Pai can go against the wishes of 350 million Americans and suffer absolutely no consequences for it, and he isn't even an elected freaking official.

And there's basically NOTHING nobody can do about it. Congress can't fire him, only the president can do so, and even if he wanted to do so, by now Drumpf is barely coherent enough to piss in his own cornflakes in the morning.

Maybe do something about this, Congress? Oh wait, I forgot, you're being paid to shit on the american public.

There are specific protocols the FCC is supposed to follow in order to make changes, like an advertised and lengthy public comment time. Not doing so opens up any changes to legal challenges. Many lawyers are at the starting gate waiting to pull the trigger as Mr. Pai has run roughshod over protocol.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 21:08 NegaDeath
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

There was net neutrality pre-2015, the FCC was enforcing it with growing regularity. In 2014 their ability to do so under Title I was struck down, forcing the move to Title II.

"In 2008, the FCC ordered Comcast to stop slowing BitTorrent traffic on its network. Thompson argues that the Comcast case is insignificant because Comcast had stopped throttling BitTorrent by the time the FCC issued its order. But the real importance of the case was a federal-court ruling that the FCC didn’t have authority to regulate Comcast’s internet service, in part because it wasn't a Title II service."


The FCC approved net-neutrality rules in 2010, but was sued by Verizon. In 2014, the same federal court again ruled that the FCC would need to reclassify broadband providers as Title II services in order to enforce its rules."


Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Those negatives were beginning to take over the internet before 2015.

"AT&T blocked Apple’s FaceTime and Google’s Hangouts video chat services for the preposterously silly reason that the apps were "preloaded" on each company’s phones instead of downloaded from an app store. Verizon and AT&T have each blocked the Google Wallet mobile payment system because they’re partners in the competing (and not very good) ISIS service. Comcast customers who stream video on their Xboxes using Microsoft’s services get charged against their data caps, but the Comcast service is tax-free."

Also keep in mind that the ISP landscape has changed drastically in the last 20 years. Consolidations and buyouts led to ISP's also holding significant media/information/other service assets. The search for profit being what it is incentivized them to prioritize networks for their own products, as a store might prioritize its own in house-brand on shelves. And without meaningful competition there would be no market forces to resist it.

and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.

And I remember very vocal discussions, with multiple people being very worried that Tom Wheeler was going to do what Pai is doing now only to be pleasantly surprised he didn't. For example of this debate here is this rather long thread here.
 
Avatar 57352
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 16:04 Scheherazade
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.

Earlier, ISPs were competing over speed.

Speed was difficult to acquire. Switching equipment was going as fast as it could, and there wasn't capacity to spare.



Today, speed is tapped out. You can watch multiple 4k streams and game simultaneously. Faster/Slower are basically meaningless numbers that won't affect your experience in any way.

So, ISPs can't get more money by winning customers with higher speeds.

Now ISPs need other sources of growth.



Also, compute power is now far in excess of what is needed to switch packets in a timely manner.

So, with the spare compute power, they now do 'deep packet inspection'.

They read the content of your internet packets, and use 'big data' to run analysis on where you go, and more importantly what info you send back and forth.

They then resell that information to corporations.



The latest big thing is to throttle your data in a very targeted manner. Limiting data rates for packets with certain high-value content - and offering to restore that bandwidth (that you already paid them for) for an additional fee.

This is what you saw with the Netflix shakedown, where ISPs throttled their own customer's inbound network packets when the packets contained video stream data from Netflix.
Video streams were super slow, unless you used a VPN to encrypt the content of you packets, so that ISPs couldn't identify them as video and throttle them.

The fraudulent part of this practice is that you pay $X for open access at some bandwidth, but ISPs elect to not provide that bandwidth even though they can.

The ISPs have an 'out' for providing less bandwidth : Because network congestion, etc, can make it impossible to provide your paid for bandwidth, so they only are responsible for doing their best effort UP TO your purchased bandwidth.
Since you can't prove that there is or isn't congestion inside the ISP (they won't let you see what's going on inside), the ISP can effectively choose to not deliver on what you paid for. If you complain they just say 'network is congested, nothing we can do'. (You can use a VPN to show that the bandwidth is available, and that the ISP is cheating... but most people [in authority] are too computer illiterate to realize what this means, or are in on it to begin with.)

The risk is that ISPs will do what happened in Portugal, and throttle/lock-down the internet as a whole, and sell it back to you as additional services.






Basically, this is where things are going :

Yesterday : You pay for a connection, the ISP switches your packets at the highest speed they can, up to the max speed you paid for.

Today : You pay for a connection, the ISP collects data on what packets are high value, and if it's valuable enough they then deny your connection, and ask the website you're trying to communicate with for more money, to get the connection you already paid for.

Future : You pay for a connection, but the ISP only sells you some sites. You need to pay extra for every place you want to access.

-scheherazade
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 14:42 RedEye9
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Dec 12, 2017, 14:14:
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.
No one can explain this to you. You're a basket case.
 
Avatar 58135
 
https://www.lawfareblog.com/topic/russia-connection
The game’s afoot.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/fact-checker-most-repeated-disinformation/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
3. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 14:14 ledhead1969
 
NN didn't exist until 2015. Can someone explain to me why the world didn't fall apart in the 20 years preceding 2015 and it will happen now? I just don't get why the sky is falling by going back to pre-2015 models.

Yes, all sorts of bad stuff might happen but why didn't the whole internet fall apart before 2015? Why didn't all of those negatives completely take over the business model of the internet like they are predicted to now (by going back to the pre-2015 model).

Yes, I am oversimplifying but there was no NN pre-2015 and I don't remember everyone's head exploding on a daily basis on this board.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
2. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 12:08 Mr. Tact
 
Well... there are literally thousands of federal positions, it would be worse if we tried to elect them all. That said, here's to hoping karma does exist and Pai gets a just return...  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
1. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Dec 12, 2017, 11:57 Creston
 
I think this Ajit Pai bullshit is showing us that the whole concept of a Commission is flawed. Pai can go against the wishes of 350 million Americans and suffer absolutely no consequences for it, and he isn't even an elected freaking official.

And there's basically NOTHING nobody can do about it. Congress can't fire him, only the president can do so, and even if he wanted to do so, by now Drumpf is barely coherent enough to piss in his own cornflakes in the morning.

Maybe do something about this, Congress? Oh wait, I forgot, you're being paid to shit on the american public.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo