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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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19. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 30, 2017, 18:31 Graham
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 11:23:
Yeah, I'm done. You're not actually answering anything or providing any reasoning or new information, you're just hurling insults to deflect from your lack of evidence or explanation. This is pretty typical of the other bitcoin fanatics I've encountered. Your argument amounts to "it's worth a lot right now, so it must make complete sense for it to be worth a lot". This ignores a long history of bubbles that have resulted from similar thinking. Good luck with your crusade.

You're an utter coward with no substance to your arguments at all. If you actually had any knowledge about what you claim to, or you were actually participating as you said you are, you'd be able to answer the questions above.

Instead, when you're rightly called on your shit you hide behind the idea that I'm hurling insults (you just got your first one: you're a coward) and you run for cover.

Good riddance.
 
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18. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 29, 2017, 11:23 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Yeah, I'm done. You're not actually answering anything or providing any reasoning or new information, you're just hurling insults to deflect from your lack of evidence or explanation. This is pretty typical of the other bitcoin fanatics I've encountered. Your argument amounts to "it's worth a lot right now, so it must make complete sense for it to be worth a lot". This ignores a long history of bubbles that have resulted from similar thinking. Good luck with your crusade.  
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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17. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 29, 2017, 04:51 Graham
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
I think you're being distracted by the price change in bitcoin as a commodity - which has a same curve as Apple and Amazon over the same time period.
Wait, what? How are you comparing it to stocks now?

Because apparently you can't differentiate between bitcoin as a service and bitcoin as a commodity. Do try to keep up.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
So let's address your questions:

>who spends a currency that is rising in value like this?

Apparently the people who are conducting $2b in transactions per day. Question answered.
As I said, it just seems like speculation, not people spending it as a currency, just investing in it like a commodity, except it isn't actually a commodity.

"It just seems like..." let me stop you right there. Go take a look at Blockchain transactions; they're openly viewable and you can see nearly $2b are taking place daily. Making an argument from a place of ignorance isn't a strength so go and actually do the research instead of arguing what your gut tells you.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>What actual value does it have?

Apparently a rising one, even despite fluctuations. Oh look, LITERALLY below the bitcoin headline is the headline "stocks off to a mixed start as retailers ready for cyber monday" - the stock market has crashed harder than bitcoin ever has, and yet you have no problem understanding that. The other value? It's a decentralized currency where no one can decide to simply print more money, devaluing what you already have. Don't you love having to beg for a raise every year because the $80k salary you had last year is worth $77k of buying power this year?
Companies have value. They have assets and intellectual property. They create products and generate revenues. What does a bitcoin do? What does it do that couldn't be done by any of a hundred other crypto currencies? Seems like buying into a company that doesn't do anything.

Even if I wanted to spend it like the currency that people claim it is, why would I do that, knowing that what I just gave someone will be worth more to me tomorrow if I save it instead?

Bitcoin, clearly, as we're discussing has value. Your insistence that it doesn't doesn't make it true. You seem actively ignorant about what blockchain transactions are, how they're conducted, and why they're conducted. "Seems like buying into a company that doesn't do anything" - jesus christ, do you actively work at not knowing anything you're arguing about? GO LOOK IT UP.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>What happens when they eventually realize it doesn't have any real value?

Again, regulation-free, decentralized, world wide transactions that don't require a bank and that keep governments and businesses out of your business doesn't appeal to you? Alright then. Your call, dude.
What's really keeping government out of it? There's no reason at all that governments couldn't kill the currency if they decided to.

Holy fuck, son. Seriously. It is DECENTRALIZED OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE. Tell me, briefly, how they would take it over or how they'd kill it. Go on. I'll wait.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>Seems like a kind of pyramid scheme...

Seems like you can't be bothered to take even a few minutes to look into how the technology works and why it's important.
I have looked into how it works, and I understand blockchain. It could be very useful for lots of things, but that still doesn't explain why Bitcoins are so valuable.

Wait... you understand blockchain? Alright... explain it to me. I'm fascinated to see how you can understand how it works but can't put two and two together on why the value of the commodity is rising. Please, I implore you, enlighten me.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
And it's not just bitcoin, it's blockchain technologies in general. Tell you what - you keep doing what you're doing and let me know how things fare for you in a few years.
I'm not arguing against the usefulness of blockchain technologies, so don't create some straw man around that.

No straw men here, friend. No, seriously, that's not an example of a straw man argument. Go check the wiki on logical fallacies. I was being dismissive as fuck, but it's not a straw man.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 29, 2017, 01:04:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
Me, I just built another gaming PC from literally .14 btc that took me about two weeks to minute four years ago. Fun fact: it'll mine some more crypto for me, and maybe we can have this conversation again in four years.
Good for you. I may dabble in some blockchain tech, but not one that doesn't actually seem to do anything particularly well, and appears to be getting by on its first-mover status and network effects, but doesn't seem to be able to sustain a high level of transactions, and is apparently used primarily for speculation.

Please, do tell us all what you're "dabbling" in, I'd love to know what you think it the better place to "dabble". Maybe if you could be a bit more clear about your understanding, and what you're actually doin in the space, it would offer you some more credibility - your assessment of "first mover" status is a fascinating one, and having some context would definitely help make your argument.

So go on, answer some of the questions above. I did you the courtesy, please return the favour.

Oh, and please don't think that I'm not diversified in the space now. Maybe we're crypto buddies in whatever you're "dabbling" in - so go on, lay it all out. I want to believe.
 
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16. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 29, 2017, 01:04 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
I think you're being distracted by the price change in bitcoin as a commodity - which has a same curve as Apple and Amazon over the same time period.
Wait, what? How are you comparing it to stocks now?

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
So let's address your questions:

>who spends a currency that is rising in value like this?

Apparently the people who are conducting $2b in transactions per day. Question answered.
As I said, it just seems like speculation, not people spending it as a currency, just investing in it like a commodity, except it isn't actually a commodity.

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>What actual value does it have?

Apparently a rising one, even despite fluctuations. Oh look, LITERALLY below the bitcoin headline is the headline "stocks off to a mixed start as retailers ready for cyber monday" - the stock market has crashed harder than bitcoin ever has, and yet you have no problem understanding that. The other value? It's a decentralized currency where no one can decide to simply print more money, devaluing what you already have. Don't you love having to beg for a raise every year because the $80k salary you had last year is worth $77k of buying power this year?
Companies have value. They have assets and intellectual property. They create products and generate revenues. What does a bitcoin do? What does it do that couldn't be done by any of a hundred other crypto currencies? Seems like buying into a company that doesn't do anything.

Even if I wanted to spend it like the currency that people claim it is, why would I do that, knowing that what I just gave someone will be worth more to me tomorrow if I save it instead?

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>What happens when they eventually realize it doesn't have any real value?

Again, regulation-free, decentralized, world wide transactions that don't require a bank and that keep governments and businesses out of your business doesn't appeal to you? Alright then. Your call, dude.
What's really keeping government out of it? There's no reason at all that governments couldn't kill the currency if they decided to.

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
>Seems like a kind of pyramid scheme...

Seems like you can't be bothered to take even a few minutes to look into how the technology works and why it's important.
I have looked into how it works, and I understand blockchain. It could be very useful for lots of things, but that still doesn't explain why Bitcoins are so valuable.

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
And it's not just bitcoin, it's blockchain technologies in general. Tell you what - you keep doing what you're doing and let me know how things fare for you in a few years.
I'm not arguing against the usefulness of blockchain technologies, so don't create some straw man around that.

Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 20:05:
Me, I just built another gaming PC from literally .14 btc that took me about two weeks to minute four years ago. Fun fact: it'll mine some more crypto for me, and maybe we can have this conversation again in four years.
Good for you. I may dabble in some blockchain tech, but not one that doesn't actually seem to do anything particularly well, and appears to be getting by on its first-mover status and network effects, but doesn't seem to be able to sustain a high level of transactions, and is apparently used primarily for speculation.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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15. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 28, 2017, 20:05 Graham
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 19:15:
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 05:08:
$161 billion dollar market cap, with $2 billion in transactions daily. Decentralized and it's being used as currency.

Again, sorry that you don't get it, but your fundamental lack of understanding isn't bitcoin's problem.

Honestly it sounds like a lot of sour grapes from people who probably had the gear to mine this stuff and just didn't bother. Tough is your luck.

Lol, none of that addresses my question or the issues I was asking about.

So conducting a huge amount of business and having a sizeable market cap DOESN'T prove the underlying technology is a) valid and b) actually being used?

I think you're being distracted by the price change in bitcoin as a commodity - which has a same curve as Apple and Amazon over the same time period.

So let's address your questions:

>who spends a currency that is rising in value like this?

Apparently the people who are conducting $2b in transactions per day. Question answered.

>What actual value does it have?

Apparently a rising one, even despite fluctuations. Oh look, LITERALLY below the bitcoin headline is the headline "stocks off to a mixed start as retailers ready for cyber monday" - the stock market has crashed harder than bitcoin ever has, and yet you have no problem understanding that. The other value? It's a decentralized currency where no one can decide to simply print more money, devaluing what you already have. Don't you love having to beg for a raise every year because the $80k salary you had last year is worth $77k of buying power this year?

>What happens when they eventually realize it doesn't have any real value?

Again, regulation-free, decentralized, world wide transactions that don't require a bank and that keep governments and businesses out of your business doesn't appeal to you? Alright then. Your call, dude.

>Seems like a kind of pyramid scheme...

Seems like you can't be bothered to take even a few minutes to look into how the technology works and why it's important.

And it's not just bitcoin, it's blockchain technologies in general. Tell you what - you keep doing what you're doing and let me know how things fare for you in a few years.

Me, I just built another gaming PC from literally .14 btc that took me about two weeks to minute four years ago. Fun fact: it'll mine some more crypto for me, and maybe we can have this conversation again in four years.



So
 
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14. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 28, 2017, 19:15 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Graham wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 05:08:
$161 billion dollar market cap, with $2 billion in transactions daily. Decentralized and it's being used as currency.

Again, sorry that you don't get it, but your fundamental lack of understanding isn't bitcoin's problem.

Honestly it sounds like a lot of sour grapes from people who probably had the gear to mine this stuff and just didn't bother. Tough is your luck.

Lol, none of that addresses my question or the issues I was asking about.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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13. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 28, 2017, 14:24 Graham
 
Redmask wrote on Nov 28, 2017, 06:16:
Graham wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 19:55:
Sure. I turned a gaming PC that cost me $1200 into just over $50k... And I probably kicked your ass online with it when I wasn't mining. Show me how I managed to go broke again?

You didn't mine shit with a gaming rig unless your gaming rig is a chinese ASIC farm. Making anything after electricity these days on gaming hardware is pitifully slow and has been for years.

I call bullshit on your claims.

One of two wallets I have https://imgur.com/a/5cTzO

Jealousy isn't becoming, guys. 7950's in 2013 hashed quite nicely - and I literally let them sit in my wallets for four years.
 
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12. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 28, 2017, 06:16 Redmask
 
Graham wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 19:55:
Sure. I turned a gaming PC that cost me $1200 into just over $50k... And I probably kicked your ass online with it when I wasn't mining. Show me how I managed to go broke again?

You didn't mine shit with a gaming rig unless your gaming rig is a chinese ASIC farm. Making anything after electricity these days on gaming hardware is pitifully slow and has been for years.

I call bullshit on your claims.
 
Avatar 57682
 
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11. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 28, 2017, 05:08 Graham
 
jacobvandy wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 21:57:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 21:07:
What am I missing here?

Nothing, the market has zero stability and has already crashed many times. Bully for whoever has managed to ride the wave and scrape off a little bit of money, but most are just being fleeced by the mega-whale investment groups that manipulate it at will.

$161 billion dollar market cap, with $2 billion in transactions daily. Decentralized and it's being used as currency.

Again, sorry that you don't get it, but your fundamental lack of understanding isn't bitcoin's problem.

Honestly it sounds like a lot of sour grapes from people who probably had the gear to mine this stuff and just didn't bother. Tough is your luck.
 
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10. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 28, 2017, 05:06 Graham
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 20:16:
2 bitcoin posts, one in 2013 and one now but we're to believe you made 50 k. yeah right.

I literally mined four bitcoin with my 7950s in 2013. Held on to them. They're $50k Canadian today.

/shrug sorry that's hard for you to believe, but I don't really give a shit.
 
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9. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 27, 2017, 21:57 jacobvandy
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 21:07:
What am I missing here?

Nothing, the market has zero stability and has already crashed many times. Bully for whoever has managed to ride the wave and scrape off a little bit of money, but most are just being fleeced by the mega-whale investment groups that manipulate it at will.
 
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8. Re: I watched more DOOM videos (not all of them [TL;DW]), with a guy's commentaries, from YouTube... Nov 27, 2017, 21:07 Wowbagger_TIP
 
As far as I can tell, Bitcoin "investing" is just gambling on a commodity with no inherent value. It's not a useful currency, because who spends a currency that is rising in value like this? The transaction fees and time are also a hindrance to its usefulness as a currency. What actual value does it have? Seems like only what it derives from the network effect of many people adopting it. What happens when they eventually realize it doesn't have any real value?

Seems like a kind of pyramid scheme... those that bought in early ride the wave up and sell off to those coming later, who attempt to do the same even later. Few seem to find any actual use for Bitcoin as a currency though. It's an all-or-nothing proposition, a bubble waiting to pop. It will keep rising, right up until it pops and people are left with useless bits on a hard drive.

What am I missing here?
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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7. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 20:16 RedEye9
 
2 bitcoin posts, one in 2013 and one now but we're to believe you made 50 k. yeah right.  
Avatar 58135
 
Nullity's Law
There's an easy and fool-proof way to tell if anything related conservative/right-wing/Republican politics is true or not. If anyone calls it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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6. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 19:55 Graham
 
Jagacademy wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 19:33:
Graham wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 17:10:
See where I'm going with this?

Into bankruptcy.

Sure. I turned a gaming PC that cost me $1200 into just over $50k... And I probably kicked your ass online with it when I wasn't mining. Show me how I managed to go broke again?
 
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5. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 19:33 Jagacademy
 
Graham wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 17:10:
See where I'm going with this?

Into bankruptcy.
 
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4. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 17:10 Graham
 
Jagacademy wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 12:24:
People that wouldn't touch Bitcoin for $20 a year ago are now paying $1000 for one.

If you bought at $20, congratulations, best investment of your life. If you're buying now, you're hopping on a bandwagon and going to get wrecked.

Sorry, I just had to fix that from last year's figures.

Jagacademy wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 12:24:
People that wouldn't touch Bitcoin for $2 a year ago are now paying $100 for one.

If you bought at $2, congratulations, best investment of your life. If you're buying now, you're hopping on a bandwagon and going to get wrecked.

And the year before.

Jagacademy wrote on Nov 27, 2017, 12:24:
People that wouldn't touch Bitcoin for $0.20 a year ago are now paying $10 for one.

If you bought at $0.20, congratulations, best investment of your life. If you're buying now, you're hopping on a bandwagon and going to get wrecked.

See where I'm going with this?
 
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3. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 14:47 RedEye9
 

BC has almost hit my buy high and sell low investment strategy.
 
Avatar 58135
 
Nullity's Law
There's an easy and fool-proof way to tell if anything related conservative/right-wing/Republican politics is true or not. If anyone calls it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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2. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 13:23 Verno
 
Hah yeah, I don't care what highs it hits, I am not touching Bitcoin. It's pure speculation and I like my investments much safer than that.  
Playing: Pillars of Eternity 2, Far Cry 5, Persona 5
Watching: Safe, Game Night, Last Flag Flying
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1. Re: Morning Metaverse Nov 27, 2017, 12:24 Jagacademy
 
People that wouldn't touch Bitcoin for $200 a year ago are now paying $10,000 for one.

If you bought at $200, congratulations, best investment of your life. If you're buying now, you're hopping on a bandwagon and going to get wrecked.
 
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