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Out of the Blue

Thank very much for all the birthday wishes, they are appreciated. I had a fine old time for the occasion, including a delicious steak dinner, and at least one cocktail too many which rewarded me with a bit of a hangover. This is pretty uncommon for me, and I'm wearing it as a badge of honor that proves what a good time we had. Meanwhile, it's Thanksgiving here in the U.S. tomorrow, which will probably make for a quiet day. If you are part of the throngs travelling for the holiday, please be careful on the road.

R.I.P.: David Cassidy, '70s teen heartthrob, dies at age 67.

Links: Thanks Ant.
Play: Poker World.
Story: British water utilities admit they use divining rods to find leaks. Thanks Neutronbeam.
Science: What The Industry Knew About Sugar's Health Effects, But Didn't Tell Us. Thanks Devicer.
Media: The German Town That's Literally Breaking Apart.
First Interstellar Asteroid Wows Scientists.
Goalie Scores Rare Goal and Milks It For All It's Worth.

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18 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 24, 2017, 01:55 jdreyer
 
Verno wrote on Nov 23, 2017, 09:07:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 19:09:
Sugary foods are much more strongly hawked compared to salt. Sugar is also associated with a lot more diseases compared to salt. Restrict sugar first, then assess.

How exactly will taxing or restricting sugar help? How do you even implement this? There are a plethora of sugar-like additives on the market that are also heavily subsidized. It is far too easy for manufacturers to simply switch to something else that has the same overall effect on blood sugar levels.

Also historically trying to fuck with salt/sugar has contributed to social unrest so I'm not even sure this is a good idea in the first place. People will see it as a punishment or social injustice and that's how companies will pitch it. I think a better starting point is the subsidies and going after the companies responsible directly.

Mexico city has implemented a sugar tax, and it's worked quite well by steering people away from soda and to plain water. Berkeley and other cities in the USA have had similar results.

I'm not saying that a tax is a magic bullet. Ideally it should be part of a larger package: education, ad restrictions, warning labels, lawsuits, etc. But used properly, it can be effective. A similar "total package" has helped reduce tobacco use in the USA from over 50% down to 15%.
 
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17. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 23, 2017, 09:07 Verno
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 19:09:
Sugary foods are much more strongly hawked compared to salt. Sugar is also associated with a lot more diseases compared to salt. Restrict sugar first, then assess.

How exactly will taxing or restricting sugar help? How do you even implement this? There are a plethora of sugar-like additives on the market that are also heavily subsidized. It is far too easy for manufacturers to simply switch to something else that has the same overall effect on blood sugar levels.

Also historically trying to fuck with salt/sugar has contributed to social unrest so I'm not even sure this is a good idea in the first place. People will see it as a punishment or social injustice and that's how companies will pitch it. I think a better starting point is the subsidies and going after the companies responsible directly.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 23, 2017, 01:54 Nucas
 
i missed it too, so here's a happy birthday from me blue. keep on truckin' mandingha.  
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 23, 2017, 00:36 Mr. Tact
 
NKD is right, there is only so much regulations can do. Are there people who "don't know they are eating poorly"? Probably a few, but that number is so small as to be insignificant. The vast majority simply don't care, myself included. When you go to a restaurant and get an oversized portion, you don't have to eat it all. It comes down to will power and personal responsibility.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 21:58 NKD
 
Dacote wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 19:46:
Hell if you regulate enough stuff we might all live to be 75.

We can jail fat or dietarily unhealthy people and force them to get healthy. Speaking as a fat ass myself, that's what it would take.

I can tell you that no tax is going to get me to eat more healthy. I eat too much not because of marketing or because food tastes too good, but because I lack self-control. If some food I like to snack on gets taxed to where I'm unwilling to buy it, I'll simply find some other snack that's in my budget range. It is, of course, something I work to do less of, sometimes with more success than other times. But I've never been in a situation where a rise in food prices or certain foods not being available on the shelves led me to keep less food around the house.
 
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You are being watched.
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 19:46 Dacote
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 19:09:
Verno wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 13:43:
I guess we tax salt too while we're at it? Didn't work out too well in the past when governments tried it

Regulation, taxation or education? I don't know if taxing sugar is necessary but regulation on the other hand, I am coming around on that. It's hard enough to get DV measurements for it on the side of boxes.

Sugary foods are much more strongly hawked compared to salt. Sugar is also associated with a lot more diseases compared to salt. Restrict sugar first, then assess.
In America we do everything to excess.

1. Serving sizes are too large. CHECK
2. Corn Syrup/Sugar is in EVERYTHING. CHECK
3. Salt/Sodium is also in EVERYTHING. CHECK
4. Fat is added to EVERYTHING. CHECK

While in South Korea for a couple of months on business, I and my fellow expats noticed that to get a bag of salty lays potato chips was next to impossible. The closest ones they had were nowhere near as salty as the same chip in the USA. When asked the response was always the same, American products were too salty.

We need to Ban/Tax/Regulate the following;
Alcohol
Nicotine/Tobacco
Serving Size
Sugar
Salt
Fat
Red Meat

Hell if you regulate enough stuff we might all live to be 75.
 
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 19:09 jdreyer
 
Verno wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 13:43:
I guess we tax salt too while we're at it? Didn't work out too well in the past when governments tried it

Regulation, taxation or education? I don't know if taxing sugar is necessary but regulation on the other hand, I am coming around on that. It's hard enough to get DV measurements for it on the side of boxes.

Sugary foods are much more strongly hawked compared to salt. Sugar is also associated with a lot more diseases compared to salt. Restrict sugar first, then assess.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 14:38 Cutter
 
MajorD wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 12:59:
UCSF's Kearns argues that if the sugar industry had published its findings decades ago, it would have added to a growing body of evidence. Growing bodies in FAT America should have been some of the evidence. (Pun intended).

"Had this information been made public, there would have been a lot more research scrutiny of sugar," Kearns told us.
Kearns says the sugar industry has "a lot of money and influence" and still uses its influence to cast doubt on the recommendation to limit added sugars to no more than 10 percent of daily calories.

Sound familiar? Ta - cough - bac - cough - co!!!

So many problems in this world stem from pure greed!


The Sugar Lobby is way more powerful than Tobacco, always have been. Just google 'how powerful is the sugar lobby' and you'll see no end of articles on the shit they pull. They constantly buy out scientists and universities (like Harvard)to write puff pieces that support them and obscure any real science that condemns sugar.
 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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10. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 13:59 Rigs
 
Happy Belated Birthday, Blue! Sorry I missed it yesterday! I even wrote it down last year so I wouldn't forget...somewhere. Better luck next year, I guess...

As for traveling on the roads, let me reiterate would Blue said - PLEASE, BE CAREFUL! I had to make a trip to Spring Hill, FL (about 45-mins north of Tampa) this morning, from Lake City, FL, (about 45-mins west of Jacksonville) on I-75 and there were no less than FOUR accidents that made my normal two hour journey (one way) into a four hour hell march. The first accident was an old white Ford 'pedo' Van (you know, no windows), smashed into the back of an 18-wheeler and ended up looking more like a twisted version of an accordion. If the driver survived, I have no clue how. The front dash and drivers seat were under the back wheels of the trailer. Not the way I'd want to go, personally.

Not half a mile further down the interstate, a tractor trailer had clipped another one while switching lanes, tearing off most of one of the tractors cabs, leaving just the dash, drivers seat and steering wheel. Basically a convertible. Another half mile down the road was the worst accident, one I didn't see until coming back home, as most of the truck (another 18 wheeler) had burned to ashes. Only the supports for the trailer itself were recognizable. I don't know if there were other vehicles involved. I didn't see any.

On the way home, yet another accident right before my exit, a mini-van had plowed into the back of another mini-van, leaving that van looking like the Hulk had gotten a punch or two into the rear door. It nearly reached the rear set of seats and there were several children sitting along the road while State Troopers scoped around.

Seriously, if you don't have to go out, don't. If you do, keep your head on a swivel, don't even think about doing it even after ONE drink and please don't do 120mph in a 55. Have a nice holiday!

=-Rigs-=
 
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"I remember feeling profoundly disappointed at the scene when Byeck's missus gives him a hidden blade and says, 'This is a weapon from ancient times!' BITCH, we're IN 'ancient times'!" - Yahtzee, 'Assassin's Creed: Origins'
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9. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 13:45 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 13:43:
I guess we tax salt too while we're at it? Didn't work out too well in the past when governments tried it

Regulation, taxation or education? Interesting situation. I don't know if taxing sugar is necessary but regulation on the other hand, I am coming around on that.

We can always just reduce the sugar tariffs, reducing the revenue and therefore power of the US sugar industry. Or, maybe, just opening it up to foreign money and making it even more powerful...
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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8. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 13:43 Verno
 
I guess we tax salt too while we're at it? Didn't work out too well in the past when governments tried it

Regulation, taxation or education? I don't know if taxing sugar is necessary but regulation on the other hand, I am coming around on that. It's hard enough to get DV measurements for it on the side of boxes.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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7. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 12:59 MajorD
 

UCSF's Kearns argues that if the sugar industry had published its findings decades ago, it would have added to a growing body of evidence. Growing bodies in FAT America should have been some of the evidence. (Pun intended).

"Had this information been made public, there would have been a lot more research scrutiny of sugar," Kearns told us.
Kearns says the sugar industry has "a lot of money and influence" and still uses its influence to cast doubt on the recommendation to limit added sugars to no more than 10 percent of daily calories.

Sound familiar? Ta - cough - bac - cough - co!!!

So many problems in this world stem from pure greed!

 
Avatar 55780
 
Still counting...
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6. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 12:51 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 12:11:
What The Industry Knew About Sugar's Health Effects, But Didn't Tell Us

Yeah, they've known for decades, just like big tobacco. Sugar needs to have the shit taxed out of it, just like alcohol and tobacco. It's at least as big a risk factor as those things.

Yeah, the combination of big oil and big sugar has ruined/killed more people than alcohol and tobacco by far. It was all the fault of assholes like Ancel Keys. And when British Prof John Yukin tried to expose them for it they ruined his career. And the stupid thing is there's zero need for refined sugar. Orgamic raw cane sugar actually still has some nutritional benefit to it whereas white sugar is nothing but downside. That's why I only use raw cane when I need to but raw honey for everything else. Xylitol actually has a lot of benefits too but it's far too expensive to use regularly. Stevia just has too odd a taste for me.

Edit: Check these articles out....

John Yudkin: the man who tried to warn us about sugar

Lustig is one of a growing number of scientists who don't just believe sugar makes you fat and rots teeth. They're convinced it's the cause of several chronic and very common illnesses, including heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer's and diabetes. It's also addictive, since it interferes with our appetites and creates an irresistible urge to eat.

The Sugar Conspiracy

In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2017, 13:01.
 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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4. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 12:22 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 12:16:
First Interstellar Asteroid Wows Scientists.

Given it's strange elongated shape, are they sure it's an asteroid and not something else?
Just a protomolecule that missed its mark, it will be back.
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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3. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 12:16 jdreyer
 
First Interstellar Asteroid Wows Scientists.

Given it's strange elongated shape, are they sure it's an asteroid and not something else?
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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2. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 12:11 jdreyer
 
What The Industry Knew About Sugar's Health Effects, But Didn't Tell Us

Yeah, they've known for decades, just like big tobacco. Sugar needs to have the shit taxed out of it, just like alcohol and tobacco. It's at least as big a risk factor as those things.
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
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1. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 22, 2017, 11:13 RedEye9
 
The president and CEO of the Sugar Association described the recommendation to limit added sugars to no more than 10 percent of daily calories as "scientifically out of bounds."
I'm shocked.
He was later overheard saying as he flew off, "If straight sugar water is good enough for humming birds it's good enough for me."
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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