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Evening Safety Dance

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13 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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13. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 22, 2017, 09:40 Creston
 
"We never used it."

Then why didn't you turn it off straight away? Why did you wait until someone caught you doing this before acting?

*crickets*

Fuck Google.

Edit : Grammar be hard.

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2017, 11:48.
 
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12. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 22, 2017, 09:14 Scottish Martial Arts
 
yuastnav wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 07:02:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 02:12:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 23:08:
We all know Cutter almost exclusively talks out of his ass but itís particularly amusing when you are on the inside of something he can only speculate about. Sadly, I canít elaborate.

Don't be a tease! Expound, please.

Yeah, give us all of this juicy insider intel. :>

Hehe, as an engineer I'm just supposed to let PR handle those sorts of questions. A few general observations, though:

Location is actually a pretty hard problem. Cellphones collect a lot of signals but at the same time they were never specifically designed to be position trackers. In theory, they can provide precise user location; in practice, it's a lot harder than that, particularly in urban environments or indoors.

Data collection is nearly entirely about improving the accuracy, precision, and efficiency of existing services, or to support the development of new ones. To the extent that data collection is malicious, it's to anonymously target you for advertising.

Some of the data that's collected are, in the abstract, creepy. In terms of its concrete use, "your" data are just structured collections of numbers in a near infinite sea, being processed by massive distributed server clusters without any observation by humans.

Along the same lines, no one can look you up and find out what's known about you. To the extent that it could be revealed in a data breach, hackers would need to steal ALL of Google's data and reverse engineer it. Given the scale at which Google operates, it's highly questionable whether any other actor has enough storage capacity to actually be able to store all of that data for later offline analysis.

As another poster alluded, the big thing you should be worried about is the fact that the technology exists in the first place. If Google, Facebook, et al., can collect "personal" data, so can criminals and government security and intelligence agencies.

 
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11. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 22, 2017, 07:02 yuastnav
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 02:12:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 23:08:
We all know Cutter almost exclusively talks out of his ass but itís particularly amusing when you are on the inside of something he can only speculate about. Sadly, I canít elaborate.

Don't be a tease! Expound, please.

Yeah, give us all of this juicy insider intel. :>
 
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10. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 22, 2017, 02:51 Mordecai Walfish
 
It is quite simple to retrieve this information by using cell tower data, WiFi access point data, and even based on the IP address assigned to a user if not using a VPN or onion routing of some sort, and even with the latter options is not 100% bulletproof.

Google is most certainly not the only company/entity doing this. ISP's, Government agencies, and malware providers/ad agencies are no doubt accessing this information at large as well. Google is honestly amongst the least to be concerned with in this group.
 
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†††††††††
"No, let me clarify - if you don't watch it, I'll be wearing your ass for a shoe."
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9. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 22, 2017, 02:12 jdreyer
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 23:08:
We all know Cutter almost exclusively talks out of his ass but itís particularly amusing when you are on the inside of something he can only speculate about. Sadly, I canít elaborate.

Don't be a tease! Expound, please.
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
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8. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 22, 2017, 02:11 jdreyer
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 22:10:
Tom wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 20:50:
As the article says, Google is very clear about this in their privacy policy. The very first sentence of the privacy policy says, "When you use Google services, you trust us with your information."

So, if you want privacy, don't use Google services. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Not in the framework of our current laws that put profit above all else.

The section of Googleís privacy policy that covers location sharing says the company will collect location information from devices that use its services, but does not indicate whether it will collect data from Android devices when location services are disabled:

"When you use Google services, we may collect and process information about your actual location. We use various technologies to determine location, including IP address, GPS, and other sensors that may, for example, provide Google with information on nearby devices, Wi-Fi access points and cell towers."

So they're not being explicit but that doesn't matter because wiretap laws are. In any way, shape, or form, it's illegal as hell to record information, locations, discussions, etc. without a warrant or express consent from said person. Google isn't in law enforcement or working on their behalf so warrants don't apply. Under consumer and telecom laws consumers have a reasonable right to the expectation of privacy. That's been asserted and held up by courts everywhere over and over again. When people turn off tracking they are very clearly asserting they do not want to be tracked. And the fact that they so very quickly said they're now ending this as soon as Quartz contacted them about it and gave bullshit excuses as to why they were doing it speaks volumes about their guilt. They're breaking the law, they know it, and they didn't think they'd get caught. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this blow up into something major. It's a lot more fucking important than if some guy grabbed some chick's ass a decade ago. I'm actually going to check in with our Privacy Commissioner on this.


Corporations are people, except when it comes to consequences for breaking the law. Then they're nobody. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks. Win-win.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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7. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 22, 2017, 02:10 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 21:27:
I emailed the author of the article asking him to follow up with some legal experts.
Getting an e-mail from some rando on the internet, I bet the author is all kerfluffled. :-facepalm-:

Still, it's a good thing to request. The reporter should have already contacted a civil rights attorney to get his take in the first place.
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
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6. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 21, 2017, 23:08 Scottish Martial Arts
 
We all know Cutter almost exclusively talks out of his ass but itís particularly amusing when you are on the inside of something he can only speculate about. Sadly, I canít elaborate.  
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5. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 21, 2017, 22:10 Cutter
 
Tom wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 20:50:
As the article says, Google is very clear about this in their privacy policy. The very first sentence of the privacy policy says, "When you use Google services, you trust us with your information."

So, if you want privacy, don't use Google services. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Not in the framework of our current laws that put profit above all else.

The section of Googleís privacy policy that covers location sharing says the company will collect location information from devices that use its services, but does not indicate whether it will collect data from Android devices when location services are disabled:

"When you use Google services, we may collect and process information about your actual location. We use various technologies to determine location, including IP address, GPS, and other sensors that may, for example, provide Google with information on nearby devices, Wi-Fi access points and cell towers."

So they're not being explicit but that doesn't matter because wiretap laws are. In any way, shape, or form, it's illegal as hell to record information, locations, discussions, etc. without a warrant or express consent from said person. Google isn't in law enforcement or working on their behalf so warrants don't apply. Under consumer and telecom laws consumers have a reasonable right to the expectation of privacy. That's been asserted and held up by courts everywhere over and over again. When people turn off tracking they are very clearly asserting they do not want to be tracked. And the fact that they so very quickly said they're now ending this as soon as Quartz contacted them about it and gave bullshit excuses as to why they were doing it speaks volumes about their guilt. They're breaking the law, they know it, and they didn't think they'd get caught. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this blow up into something major. It's a lot more fucking important than if some guy grabbed some chick's ass a decade ago. I'm actually going to check in with our Privacy Commissioner on this.

 
Avatar 25394
 
You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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4. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 21, 2017, 21:27 RedEye9
 
I emailed the author of the article asking him to follow up with some legal experts.
Getting an e-mail from some rando on the internet, I bet the author is all kerfluffled. :-facepalm-:
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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3. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 21, 2017, 20:50 Tom
 
As the article says, Google is very clear about this in their privacy policy. The very first sentence of the privacy policy says, "When you use Google services, you trust us with your information."

So, if you want privacy, don't use Google services. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Not in the framework of our current laws that put profit above all else.
 
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2. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 21, 2017, 20:41 Bumpy
 
Normal privacy doesn't exist any more, not even in your own home thanks to the IOT, internet of things.

You CAN have some privacy but only if you really search it out and make it happen.
 
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1. Re: Evening Safety Dance Nov 21, 2017, 19:57 Cutter
 
That's complete fucking outrageous! I emailed the author of the article asking him to follow up with some legal experts. I don't how in the fuck that doesn't qualify as breaking wiretapping laws under the Wiretap Act. It's illegal as fuck for you, me, or even cops to do something like that. And it being a co-ordinated federal effort also means it should criminally qualify as a RICO violation to boot. Fucking Google, man. This shit has to stop!
 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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