Beamer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 13:49:
Clinton got a pass because it was 20 years ago, and the people angry now weren't in position to pay attention back then (because most were young.) Once something comes up, and it almost definitely will, it will be addressed and I'd wager no pass is given.
Orogogus wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 13:41:Beamer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 08:37:
Again, who is celebrating Clinton?
I didn't say people were celebrating him, I said the left gave him a pass. Gloria Steinem's infamous 1988 opinion piece was a case in point. In no way did the Democrats turn on Clinton the way that NKD suggested is an endemic problem, and at the same time I think a Republican president boinking interns would have come under fire (while, yes, the Republicans would have ignored or "forgiven" it).
I think people on the left are mad at Franken because his actions were fucking gross. It wasn't just a gropey photo. I don't think it was "trivial" and I don't think it's okay because it was a one-off. It does make it better that he apologized, and that she accepted. I don't think he'll end up resigning or being forced out, especially since Tweeden has said she doesn't want him to, but he probably doesn't get to run for president. There are feminist groups pushing him to resign, but this is a feminist issue. I don't get any kind of feeling that the party is going to ask him to step down. I don't know how much more forgiveness people want out of this, and I don't know what other cases NKD is referring to.
Beamer wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 08:37:
Again, who is celebrating Clinton?
Redmask wrote on Nov 22, 2017, 07:53:
Yeah, we're the best! Let's celebrate our shared politics and keep posting until our hypocrisy is hidden way down on the list!!!!!!! WOOOOOO
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 17:33:
Orange Disgusto Defends Roy Moore
He had to, donny likes em young, including his own daughter. sad
https://www.clowncrack.com/2017/11/14/open-door-policy/
NKD wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 03:40:Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 03:08:
I don't really agree. I feel like Bill Clinton got a giant pass from the left for wildly inappropriate use of power. And JFK. And I think the people blowing off the first Franken accusation as trivial are full of it.
Bill Clinton scandal was 20 years ago at this point, way before social media, and nearly before the web entirely. Before the SJW purity checking came into play. And JFK was pre-Internet. Hell, pre-everyone-talking-about-politics. It was actually considered kind of rude to talk politics with people you didn't know back then.
Most of these people weren't even self-aware back when Clinton's scandals were going on, and only know about the Clintons from conservative conspiracy theories that read like a bad House of Cards fanfic.
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 07:10:Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 03:08:Bill Clinton got a pass, maybe you missed the impeachment.
I don't really agree. I feel like Bill Clinton got a giant pass from the left for wildly inappropriate use of power. And JFK. And I think the people blowing off the first Franken accusation as trivial are full of it.
Be careful, your partisan is showing.
The Democrats have to shun anyone who misbehaves, no matter how it hurts them politically, or else their base will riot
Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 03:08:Bill Clinton got a pass, maybe you missed the impeachment.
I don't really agree. I feel like Bill Clinton got a giant pass from the left for wildly inappropriate use of power. And JFK. And I think the people blowing off the first Franken accusation as trivial are full of it.
Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2017, 03:08:
I don't really agree. I feel like Bill Clinton got a giant pass from the left for wildly inappropriate use of power. And JFK. And I think the people blowing off the first Franken accusation as trivial are full of it.
NKD wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 22:15:
I saw a comment on reddit (from some Trump supporter I think) that described the moral problem with the political parties something like this:
The Republicans have a Moral Hypocrisy problem, where they preach "family values", but do nothing to uphold them and will in fact overlook any misdeed if it means someone with an (R) next to their name gets in office.
The Democrats have a Moral Hypochondria problem, where they see horrific unforgiveable sins around every corner, and will not hesitate to throw one of their own to the wolves over some relatively trivial shit. All this so they can overcompensate and make a huge point of not tolerating the shit that the Republicans do, instead of just being reasonable.
This seems pretty spot-on to me. And I think it gets worse all the time. The left gets more eager to throw people under the bus when the right gets more eager to give people a free pass. It's like the worse the Republicans get, the worse the Democrats get to compensate.
Morally, the Democrat position is more defensible, but it's the politically losing position and isn't sustainable. The Democrats have to shun anyone who misbehaves, no matter how it hurts them politically, or else their base will riot. But the Republicans don't have to do the same.
NKD wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 22:15:
I saw a comment on reddit (from some Trump supporter I think) that described the moral problem with the political parties something like this:
The Republicans have a Moral Hypocrisy problem, where they preach "family values", but do nothing to uphold them and will in fact overlook any misdeed if it means someone with an (R) next to their name gets in office.
The Democrats have a Moral Hypochondria problem, where they see horrific unforgiveable sins around every corner, and will not hesitate to throw one of their own to the wolves over some relatively trivial shit. All this so they can overcompensate and make a huge point of not tolerating the shit that the Republicans do, instead of just being reasonable.
This seems pretty spot-on to me. And I think it gets worse all the time. The left gets more eager to throw people under the bus when the right gets more eager to give people a free pass. It's like the worse the Republicans get, the worse the Democrats get to compensate.
Morally, the Democrat position is more defensible, but it's the politically losing position and isn't sustainable. The Democrats have to shun anyone who misbehaves, no matter how it hurts them politically, or else their base will riot. But the Republicans don't have to do the same.
jdreyer wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 18:26:Slick wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 15:17:
The Franken news is saddening. But what's honestly worse is that the left seems incapable of forgiving. Franken has done truly great work in his 12 years in the Senate. People fuck up. They should be shamed for a bit, but if they're sincere and it's obvious that they're not a bad person, I don't think forgiveness should be that hard to come by.
I mean the first incident (only one that seems legit at the moment), he was on a USO tour taking a dumb picture trying to get a rise out of some soldiers. We all know people in uniform (men and women) can have a crass sense of humour, they're living in extreme conditions, it's not the most PC place in the world. He was trying to play to his audience and misjudged. The picture shows him mockingly groping, not actually groping. People who actually grope don't usually pose for pictures during the act...
It's true that on the scale of things, what he did doesn't approach DJT, CT, or Roy Moore. If Diaper Dave Vitter didn't resign over his scandal, it's hard to make the case for Franken to resign.
Slick wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 15:17:
The Franken news is saddening. But what's honestly worse is that the left seems incapable of forgiving. Franken has done truly great work in his 12 years in the Senate. People fuck up. They should be shamed for a bit, but if they're sincere and it's obvious that they're not a bad person, I don't think forgiveness should be that hard to come by.
I mean the first incident (only one that seems legit at the moment), he was on a USO tour taking a dumb picture trying to get a rise out of some soldiers. We all know people in uniform (men and women) can have a crass sense of humour, they're living in extreme conditions, it's not the most PC place in the world. He was trying to play to his audience and misjudged. The picture shows him mockingly groping, not actually groping. People who actually grope don't usually pose for pictures during the act...
Slick wrote on Nov 20, 2017, 15:17:
The Franken news is saddening. But what's honestly worse is that the left seems incapable of forgiving. Franken has done truly great work in his 12 years in the Senate. People fuck up. They should be shamed for a bit, but if they're sincere and it's obvious that they're not a bad person, I don't think forgiveness should be that hard to come by.
I mean the first incident (only one that seems legit at the moment), he was on a USO tour taking a dumb picture trying to get a rise out of some soldiers. We all know people in uniform (men and women) can have a crass sense of humour, they're living in extreme conditions, it's not the most PC place in the world. He was trying to play to his audience and misjudged. The picture shows him mockingly groping, not actually groping. People who actually grope don't usually pose for pictures during the act...