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Op Ed

Randy Pitchford on Twitter (12-part post, because Twitter). Thanks Playstation Lifestyle
"I am generally very much against predatory monetization schemes in F2P games for consumable goods and even more so against them in premium games. I tend to oppose such techniques both as an artist and creator and also as a customer and a gamer."

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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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19. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 13:34 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 13, 2017, 13:13:
Creston wrote on Nov 13, 2017, 08:46:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:19:
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever.

Wait, what? I've played through twice, and I never felt like I was grinding. I just did the levels as they came and progressed steadily til the end. I was able to finish without having to replay the same levels again and again.

I think that the one big complaint with BL2 is they dialed in the weapons so that your chances of getting some wildly crazy gun. In BL1 I got a pistol with a cyclic rate of 20 that was just so much fun. Never saw anything like that in BL2. In the middle of the Pre-Sequel now, but it's not as much fun for some reason.

You answered your own objection. Gun drop rates in BL2 were absolutely terrible. In BL1, people got awesome, fun guns. In BL2, you got boring ass shit that typically was badly underpowered.

Borderlands is fun when you're using awesome weapons to mow through entire pantheons of baddies. It isn't fun when every single baddie takes 9000 bullets to kill. BL2's drop rate was so terrible that most people had the latter experience rather than the former.

If they have to put a Golden Chest system in place just to let people get a decent gun because the stupid game doesn't drop it, you know shit is bad.

I guess I didn't feel that. It's true that overpowered guns were rare, but it didn't affect my gameplay all that much. When I talked about how the guns got dialed in, what I meant was in BL1 there was more randomness. I could get a pistol that was effectively an SMG, for example. The randomness of BL2 games was a much smaller range, so an SMG would never cross over with an assault rifle, for example. It made loot drops less interesting, although I did love the elemental guns added by BL2.

Had I not been reading about the legendary guns online I would have wanted them less, and frankly, when someone just dumped a whole bunch out to me online (cloning them for himself), it took a lot of the fun out. Once I'd beaten the game, part of the fun was seeing what else was new, and those guns were a big part. My buddy and I kept beating bosses to see new and better loot.

Yeah, tons of what we picked up was worse than what we had, but isn't that true in any loot game? Playing Diablo, I keep 1 weapon for every numerous dozen I pick up.
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 13:13 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 13, 2017, 08:46:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:19:
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever.

Wait, what? I've played through twice, and I never felt like I was grinding. I just did the levels as they came and progressed steadily til the end. I was able to finish without having to replay the same levels again and again.

I think that the one big complaint with BL2 is they dialed in the weapons so that your chances of getting some wildly crazy gun. In BL1 I got a pistol with a cyclic rate of 20 that was just so much fun. Never saw anything like that in BL2. In the middle of the Pre-Sequel now, but it's not as much fun for some reason.

You answered your own objection. Gun drop rates in BL2 were absolutely terrible. In BL1, people got awesome, fun guns. In BL2, you got boring ass shit that typically was badly underpowered.

Borderlands is fun when you're using awesome weapons to mow through entire pantheons of baddies. It isn't fun when every single baddie takes 9000 bullets to kill. BL2's drop rate was so terrible that most people had the latter experience rather than the former.

If they have to put a Golden Chest system in place just to let people get a decent gun because the stupid game doesn't drop it, you know shit is bad.

I guess I didn't feel that. It's true that overpowered guns were rare, but it didn't affect my gameplay all that much. When I talked about how the guns got dialed in, what I meant was in BL1 there was more randomness. I could get a pistol that was effectively an SMG, for example. The randomness of BL2 games was a much smaller range, so an SMG would never cross over with an assault rifle, for example. It made loot drops less interesting, although I did love the elemental guns added by BL2.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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17. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 10:44 Quboid
 
Creston wrote on Nov 13, 2017, 08:46:
necrosis wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 21:34:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:20:
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

On the one hand, this x 1000.

On the other hand, what's the alternative?
Make a real fucking blog.

Or a .plan file!

And knock James Monroe off the front page? It hasn't even been 12 years yet, give people a chance to see it!
 
Avatar 10439
 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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16. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 09:56 Verno
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever. I really hope Randy doesn't forget his noble ethos when BL3 hits, otherwise I can easily see it getting lootboxed out the ass.

Haha yeah, some irony there when his whole game is basically that concept without real money...so far.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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15. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 08:46 Creston
 
necrosis wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 21:34:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:20:
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

On the one hand, this x 1000.

On the other hand, what's the alternative?
Make a real fucking blog.

Or a .plan file!
 
Avatar 15604
 
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14. Re: Op Ed Nov 13, 2017, 08:46 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:19:
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever.

Wait, what? I've played through twice, and I never felt like I was grinding. I just did the levels as they came and progressed steadily til the end. I was able to finish without having to replay the same levels again and again.

I think that the one big complaint with BL2 is they dialed in the weapons so that your chances of getting some wildly crazy gun. In BL1 I got a pistol with a cyclic rate of 20 that was just so much fun. Never saw anything like that in BL2. In the middle of the Pre-Sequel now, but it's not as much fun for some reason.

You answered your own objection. Gun drop rates in BL2 were absolutely terrible. In BL1, people got awesome, fun guns. In BL2, you got boring ass shit that typically was badly underpowered.

Borderlands is fun when you're using awesome weapons to mow through entire pantheons of baddies. It isn't fun when every single baddie takes 9000 bullets to kill. BL2's drop rate was so terrible that most people had the latter experience rather than the former.

If they have to put a Golden Chest system in place just to let people get a decent gun because the stupid game doesn't drop it, you know shit is bad.
 
Avatar 15604
 
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13. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 21:34 necrosis
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 16:20:
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

On the one hand, this x 1000.

On the other hand, what's the alternative?
Make a real fucking blog.
 
Avatar 16007
 
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12. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 17:41 Cutter
 
Point is they still created a system where they wanted people to login for the keys so they could track them. Or the outright lies and fabrications with ACM. That's just as shitty IMO. And artist? Seriously? He actually considers what he does is art? OMFG! What an incredible asshole he is. Rolleyes
 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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11. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 16:36 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
jacobvandy wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 15:15:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:43:
Keys to unlock loot in game that can ONLY be acquired via kowtowing to some social media bullshit out of game?!

Or you could just google "borderlands golden key codes" and see any of the myriad of wikis, blogs, or forum posts that compile dozens or even hundreds of them in one place...

Or just mod the game to give yourself keys, like I did, but that's not the point. The 'legitimate' path to keys was to allow yourself to be forced to jump through out of game hoops. I disagree with that design decision.

 
Avatar 54863
 
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10. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 16:20 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

On the one hand, this x 1000.

On the other hand, what's the alternative?
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
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9. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 16:19 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever.

Wait, what? I've played through twice, and I never felt like I was grinding. I just did the levels as they came and progressed steadily til the end. I was able to finish without having to replay the same levels again and again.

I think that the one big complaint with BL2 is they dialed in the weapons so that your chances of getting some wildly crazy gun. In BL1 I got a pistol with a cyclic rate of 20 that was just so much fun. Never saw anything like that in BL2. In the middle of the Pre-Sequel now, but it's not as much fun for some reason.
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
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8. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 15:26 Rigs
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

Except when it's the only available means of communication....like say after a huge hurricane-shaped tornado comes barreling through your homestead? Inquisitive

=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
''...and not getting to kill Hitler in a Wolfenstein game is like hiring an expensive prostitute to come to your hotel room and massage your kneecaps.'' -Yahtzee
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7. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 15:15 jacobvandy
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:43:
Keys to unlock loot in game that can ONLY be acquired via kowtowing to some social media bullshit out of game?!

Or you could just google "borderlands golden key codes" and see any of the myriad of wikis, blogs, or forum posts that compile dozens or even hundreds of them in one place...
 
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6. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 15:10 eRe4s3r
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:14:
There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.

Especially if your entire 12 posts could be summed up like this
"Don't like pay to win? Don't pay to win!"
 
Avatar 54727
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 14:46 Quboid
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever.

It does for me, a bit. Even padding the game's length isn't as bad as a cynical attempt to extract more money from me.
 
Avatar 10439
 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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4. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 14:43 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2017, 14:07:
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever. I really hope Randy doesn't forget his noble ethos when BL3 hits, otherwise I can easily see it getting lootboxed out the ass.

But oh well. Every game that goes the "Fuck you gamers, you exist for us to bleed dry of money" route, also known as the Lootbox Route, is an easy skip. Fuck all you shit publishers.

Exactly, Borderlands 2 was the grindiest game possible without being an MMO. Timed content, extremely low default drop rate, Keys to unlock loot in game that can ONLY be acquired via kowtowing to some social media bullshit out of game?! I liked the gunplay of BL1 and BL2 for the most part, but the loot system is easily one of the most grind-happy in any game ever, if you actually want decent weapons. Not a fun grind either, which led people to repeatedly exploit various areas for the entire life of BL2 or just mod it.

Borderlands 3 hopefully will have better drop rates for regular play, and no Golden Key style loot at all. I'll check it out eventually, but I skipped the BL prequel game, and wouldn't be surprised if I end up skipping BL3 due to design decisions also.
 
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3. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 14:14 RedEye9
 

There is no excuse for using twitter as a means of communication, ever.
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/andy-borowitz
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2. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 14:07 Creston
 
Cool, but it doesn't diminish the fact that Borderlands 2 was one of the grindiest games ever. I really hope Randy doesn't forget his noble ethos when BL3 hits, otherwise I can easily see it getting lootboxed out the ass.

But oh well. Every game that goes the "Fuck you gamers, you exist for us to bleed dry of money" route, also known as the Lootbox Route, is an easy skip. Fuck all you shit publishers.
 
Avatar 15604
 
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1. Re: Op Ed Nov 12, 2017, 13:42 Quboid
 
In the case where "grinding" is, well, playing the game and in the case where the player does not want to, well, play the game but doesn't want to pay cash to skip playing the game, I recommend considering another choice: don't play the game.

Sure, but if a game is excellent in most ways but has long, repetitive sections that affect the pacing and can be skipped for cash, don't expect people to be happy or to admire your artistic integrity. Especially if you've spent months telling everyone how wonderful your game is and not made the bullshit clear until after people spend their cash.

I do broadly agree with him, which isn't something I often say about Randy Pitchford.
 
Avatar 10439
 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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