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Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins

GearNuke has a statement from Ubisoft denying the recent rumor saying Denuvo DRM is causing an additional 30-40% CPU usage in Assassin's Creed: Origins (thanks DSOGaming). Here's word:

“We’re confirming that the anti-tamper solutions implemented in the Windows PC version of Assassin’s Creed Origins have no perceptible effect on game performance,” said Ubisoft in an official statement.

“In order to recreate a living, systemic and majestic open world of Ancient Egypt, where players can witness all of its stunning details, its beautiful landscapes & incredible cities, in a completely seamless way with no loading screens, Assassin’s Creed Origins uses the full extent of the minimum and recommended PC system requirements here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1759689 while ensuring a steady 30 FPS performance.

We’re committed to ensuring the most optimum experience possible for everyone, and we advise any players who may encounter performance issues on PC to check out support.ubi.com as there might be already a workaround or to contact us further explaining their issues so that we can solve them.”

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59. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 5, 2017, 11:27 NewMaxx
 
Denuvo is not hard to crack, it's Denuvo + VMProtect. That's always been the case. Denuvo has never had a significant impact on performance; as I stated in the other AC:O thread, the most I've personally tested is ~5%, excluding special cases (the implementation is customized to each title). Nevertheless, we see a 16% performance boost on 6-core Intel chips from the recent patch, and I still say there's some sort of shenanigans going on with the CPU performance, it's just unlikely DRM-related.  
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58. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 5, 2017, 04:01 Nailbender
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 01:30:
When Denuvo first came out, it took months to crack. So the corporations got some perceived value there.

ACO has been out a week, and still no crack. So they're perceiving value with this currently. The longer it goes uncracked, the more they will feel justified in this expenditure and implementation.

Good to know, thanks for that. If anything, it means that DRM may be doing a bit more for game sales than I thought. Not much, mind you, because one DRM method can only last about a month in the market before being cracked, and once cracked it's pretty useless of course. Still not a very good way to prevent piracy IMO.
 
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57. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 20:06 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 11:58:
Slashman wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 11:52:
Beamer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 10:43:

The cost of Denuvo to a company like Ubisoft likely isn't huge on a per-product basis. They almost definitely sign a fixed fee for everything they publish, rather than a per-product basis, and it likely ends up a very small figure when averaged out. Then there's the cost to implement, which is probably also not huge, and the cost of sales lost due to having Denuvo, which is also likely not huge.

I find it hard to believe that a DRM at that level isn't costly. Servers have to be consistently available and maintained throughout the life of the product downtime where people can't play is NOT going to get good press.

The Denuvo folks would have to be pretty silly not to charge an arm and a leg for what they are doing and supposedly saving their clients in costs.

An average of 25 games a year use Denuvo. How are they staying afloat and turning a profit if not charging a pretty penny?

37 games in 2017. So far. 5 from Ubi. Per LinkedIn, 20 employees.

So basically they're bathing in money.
 
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56. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 11:58 Beamer
 
Slashman wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 11:52:
Beamer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 10:43:

The cost of Denuvo to a company like Ubisoft likely isn't huge on a per-product basis. They almost definitely sign a fixed fee for everything they publish, rather than a per-product basis, and it likely ends up a very small figure when averaged out. Then there's the cost to implement, which is probably also not huge, and the cost of sales lost due to having Denuvo, which is also likely not huge.

I find it hard to believe that a DRM at that level isn't costly. Servers have to be consistently available and maintained throughout the life of the product downtime where people can't play is NOT going to get good press.

The Denuvo folks would have to be pretty silly not to charge an arm and a leg for what they are doing and supposedly saving their clients in costs.

An average of 25 games a year use Denuvo. How are they staying afloat and turning a profit if not charging a pretty penny?

37 games in 2017. So far. 5 from Ubi. Per LinkedIn, 20 employees.
 
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55. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 11:52 Slashman
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 10:43:

The cost of Denuvo to a company like Ubisoft likely isn't huge on a per-product basis. They almost definitely sign a fixed fee for everything they publish, rather than a per-product basis, and it likely ends up a very small figure when averaged out. Then there's the cost to implement, which is probably also not huge, and the cost of sales lost due to having Denuvo, which is also likely not huge.

I find it hard to believe that a DRM at that level isn't costly. Servers have to be consistently available and maintained throughout the life of the product downtime where people can't play is NOT going to get good press.

The Denuvo folks would have to be pretty silly not to charge an arm and a leg for what they are doing and supposedly saving their clients in costs.

An average of 25 games a year use Denuvo. How are they staying afloat and turning a profit if not charging a pretty penny?
 
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54. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 10:43 Beamer
 
Slashman wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 08:34:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 01:30:

When Denuvo first came out, it took months to crack. So the corporations got some perceived value there.

ACO has been out a week, and still no crack. So they're perceiving value with this currently. The longer it goes uncracked, the more they will feel justified in this expenditure and implementation.

Absolutely true. The real question that we'll never get a straight answer to is: "Was the monetary cost of Denuvo recouped by the additional sales that the DRM brought in?"

I personally believe that this is a difficult question to answer. If your game is crap, it generally won't sell well. In terms of ACO, it seems to be a good game at the core. So did additional sales come from Denuvo or from the substance of the game? Other games with Denuvo did not seem to do spectacular sales despite having it at launch.

At the end of the day though, it is likely fairly easy to convince your shareholders that Game A sold so well because you shut out those dirty pirates and that Game B could have been a much larger disappointment if the heroic DRM wasn't present (at least we made a small profit *applause*).


The cost of Denuvo to a company like Ubisoft likely isn't huge on a per-product basis. They almost definitely sign a fixed fee for everything they publish, rather than a per-product basis, and it likely ends up a very small figure when averaged out. Then there's the cost to implement, which is probably also not huge, and the cost of sales lost due to having Denuvo, which is also likely not huge.
 
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53. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 09:58 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 01:30:

When Denuvo first came out, it took months to crack. So the corporations got some perceived value there.

ACO has been out a week, and still no crack. So they're perceiving value with this currently. The longer it goes uncracked, the more they will feel justified in this expenditure and implementation.

A succinct post based in reality, with facts.
What are you, a commie?
 
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52. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 08:34 Slashman
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 3, 2017, 01:30:

When Denuvo first came out, it took months to crack. So the corporations got some perceived value there.

ACO has been out a week, and still no crack. So they're perceiving value with this currently. The longer it goes uncracked, the more they will feel justified in this expenditure and implementation.

Absolutely true. The real question that we'll never get a straight answer to is: "Was the monetary cost of Denuvo recouped by the additional sales that the DRM brought in?"

I personally believe that this is a difficult question to answer. If your game is crap, it generally won't sell well. In terms of ACO, it seems to be a good game at the core. So did additional sales come from Denuvo or from the substance of the game? Other games with Denuvo did not seem to do spectacular sales despite having it at launch.

At the end of the day though, it is likely fairly easy to convince your shareholders that Game A sold so well because you shut out those dirty pirates and that Game B could have been a much larger disappointment if the heroic DRM wasn't present (at least we made a small profit *applause*).

 
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51. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 3, 2017, 01:30 jdreyer
 
Nailbender wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 19:21:
Dacron wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:00:

So.... no source ?

Or are emotional beliefs now held as facts?

Welcome to the age of alternative facts, my friend! It's a brave, new world.

Slashman wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:34:
El Pit's opinion is no more valid than anyone else's here.

That's correct. Unfortunately, El Pit did not share your point of view. I fully agree with everything else you wrote.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:55:
1. Add DRM. This often protects that initial month of sales which is usually by far the largest revenue generator for a game.

I agree about the importance of the first month of sales for the total game sales. But check what was said earlier about Denuvo, a relatively brand new DRM - it's now cracked within a DAY. So, protection for a full month? No. Does not exist. 1-3 days at most. And most cracked-copy users know it doesn't take long, so they will wait and not buy the game, even if it takes a bit longer. So this point is moot. I wonder how much money each Denuvo license costs, and if it's really worth the tiny amount of protection it actually provides.

I agree with your closing sentence there - none of us will like any of those options.

When Denuvo first came out, it took months to crack. So the corporations got some perceived value there.

ACO has been out a week, and still no crack. So they're perceiving value with this currently. The longer it goes uncracked, the more they will feel justified in this expenditure and implementation.
 
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50. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 19:21 Nailbender
 
Dacron wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:00:

So.... no source ?

Or are emotional beliefs now held as facts?

Welcome to the age of alternative facts, my friend! It's a brave, new world.

Slashman wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:34:
El Pit's opinion is no more valid than anyone else's here.

That's correct. Unfortunately, El Pit did not share your point of view. I fully agree with everything else you wrote.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 16:55:
1. Add DRM. This often protects that initial month of sales which is usually by far the largest revenue generator for a game.

I agree about the importance of the first month of sales for the total game sales. But check what was said earlier about Denuvo, a relatively brand new DRM - it's now cracked within a DAY. So, protection for a full month? No. Does not exist. 1-3 days at most. And most cracked-copy users know it doesn't take long, so they will wait and not buy the game, even if it takes a bit longer. So this point is moot. I wonder how much money each Denuvo license costs, and if it's really worth the tiny amount of protection it actually provides.

I agree with your closing sentence there - none of us will like any of those options.
 
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49. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 17:18 HorrorScope
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Nov 1, 2017, 20:45:
30 fps on 144hz screen looks like complete shit though... just saying

Still should look better than on a 60hz screen.
 
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48. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 16:55 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 12:33:
El Pit wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 12:18:
One final posting - then I'm out of here, I just can't take what is going on in this thread:
We, the gamers, should be rooting for the companies that bring the games to us. Instead, here I too often witness how the companies are prime evil and the pirates are the brave crusaders. Please, please, please, don't whine and cry and call out the companies when you get less AAA products for windows/linux because of your friendly pirates. Just don't. You supported them, you rooted for them, now live with the consequences.

I, for one, will keep paying for the games I want and will hate the pirates for harming the people that work on these games.

And now - good luck, keep gaming AND PAYING.

There's an endless belief that piracy is a victimless crime. I like the way you think about it.

The response to piracy and torrenting has been multifaceted.

1. Add DRM. This often protects that initial month of sales which is usually by far the largest revenue generator for a game.

2. Go online-only.

3. Go Free to Play.

4. Add microtransactions. Generates additional revenue, as well as keeps users tied to "official" versions of games.

I don't think any of us like any of the options above. It's also important to recognize that these aren't just responses to piracy, but also to the increasing cost of producing games in general.
 
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47. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 16:34 Slashman
 
El Pit's opinion is no more valid than anyone else's here.

Piracy has been around forever and will be around forever. You can hand wring, you can act morally superior, you can attempt to encase your game software in whatever impenetrable wall you can conceive. It will not stop.

The reasons are myriad and varied. One of the largest sources for software piracy are from poor/low income countries where people can't afford to buy software. It doesn't matter how much you appeal to them, they don't have the cash. You haven't lost a sale because they can't pay.

Other sources vary widely from the cheapskates who can pay and don't, to the insistent on trying before buying, to the cash-strapped college kids with tight-budgets, to entitled high school kids etc.

I went from a broke high-school kid who couldn't afford more than a couple games a year (if so much) to a young working man with a limited budget who could buy more but still had trouble getting access to games. This was due to my location (living in the Caribbean) and high shipping costs of physical game media at the time. During those times, I pirated games and shared my own with friends etc. I honestly have trouble imagining that those kinds of situations are going to go away.

The thing is though, with digital distribution and ease of access to games, I haven't had the urge to pirate anything in close to a decade. I earn a comfortable living that lets me buy the games I want (and I own too many already). But there are always going to be people who can't or won't buy games who want to play them all the same. Not facing that reality is quite frankly stupid.

Putting money into trying to wall off your game instead to making it better and focusing on the people who DO pay is going to result in frustration for both the developer and paying customers.

Pirates don't deal with those problems. And continuing to piss off paying customers is only going to result in more of us waiting for sale prices because who wants to be arsed bothering with DLC that offers nothing back?
 
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46. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 16:00 Dacron
 
El Pit wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 06:12:
If there were not pirates and/or cheaters, there would not be DRM and "anti-tamper solutions". Thank the pirates and cheaters, this is who you should point your fingers at. Action: stealing, reaction: DRM et al. It started with code wheels and has evolved into partially horrible DRM (e.g. Starforce). In the end: nobody wins.

Nailbender wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 11:25:
How about sources for your claims, buddy?

El Pit wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 11:55:
Oh, how I was waiting for exactly this answer. And here we have the guy who had to spring the trap!

Proof? How about this experiment: I hope you live in a big city (like the internet is one very, very huge city). You leave your door open and tell websites to announce this on the web (like Pirate Bay announcese "Hey, don't pay, just take it for free!") and leave your house open for 24 hours after the announcement. Leave the house. Meanwhile, I will leave my house, too, but will lock it up. And in 24 hours, please come here again and tell me how the experiment worked for you. You can use your neighbour's computer to do this, by the way, because I got a feeling that some things will have been stolen (oops, "pirated") from your home. How about that, "buddy"? Got the balls to try this and tell us then again about your own "proof" (experience) how this worked for you? LOL!

So.... no source ?

Or are emotional beliefs now held as facts?
 
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45. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 13:17 Porn-O-Matic
 
For the record, I've never had any performance issues with ANY of the games that I own that have Denuvo.  
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44. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 13:15 HorrorScope
 
Jagacademy wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 01:07:
Optimized for 30FPS...roflmao.

PC Gaming quality has taken a nosedive since the very first console ports started showing up, and now it is escalating faster and faster.

Yeah if you count some AAA games being ported, I can assure you most games aren't ports at all and more games than ever are being released. Math.
 
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43. Re: Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 12:49 RedEye9
 
NKD wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 02:17:
Basically after a string of Denuvo-protected games getting cracked instantly, the pirates ran into issues with this particular combination of VMProtect and Denuvo. Now the rumor is spreading that it's causing massive performance issues or something, the sole source being a pirate working on cracking it.

The thing is, the only thing they've shown is that the DRM exists and does something. They haven't proved that the instructions its calling are computationally expensive, or even to what percentage of the CPU time is being spent on it. There are literally no numbers from the original source, so who knows where the 30-40% CPU usage came from.

It's just dumb speculation. It's a CPU bound game and the slowdown is in crowded areas, regardless of your graphical settings. So I imagine there's some performance issue with large numbers of NPCs that will get patched.
+1
Star_full Star_full Star_full Star_full Star_full
And the one post that uses common sense, sanity, facts and a smidgen of critical thinking goes ignored.
 
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42. Re: Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 12:49 Beamer
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 12:43:
I have been playing CSGO since 2012 and have never even once heard that word. Others, yeah. But what makes you think video games are free of assholes that often use words they dont really mean, because they are insecure little children? Quite the opposite actually. In the 90s I learned that already. You havent learned that even now, it seems. Deal with it, if you want all people to be the same, all you will get is a society like in 1984. If youre too sensitive, ignore people like them, they shut up as quickly as they started spewing out BS like that. And sometimes you actually make friends with them and they turn out not being that bad and had only a bad day or whatever. Happened quite a few times to me. I got to know my best friend out of a situation like that, when we clashed in a game and he thought I am an asshole and vice versa, at first.
Of course if youre anti social and stereotype everyone, like... well... you just did, you wont make friends easily period. And you asking for stereotypes you mentioned makes it obvious again, that you have no clue what youre even saying. The hypocrisy... Normally I would say youre very young, but you cant be. So its obvious and I wont waste more time with you.

I don't believe for a second you never heard that, because it's endless.

Your second sentence is a disaster grammatically, but who cares if they mean it? How does that matter? And why are the people annoyed at being called terrible things the children, and not the people incapable of...

Wait, we've had this discussion. You're the guy that said that being able to call people "faggot" on Xbox Live is the only thing stopping you from actually killing people. You don't seem healthy, and you don't seem to want to address that your actions bring people down that don't deserve it, just because you have rage control issues.

I'm going to stop talking to you. Forever. You're some kind of weird ball of rage that isn't worth getting into this.
 
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41. Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 12:43 Nailbender
 
El Pit wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 12:18:
One final posting - then I'm out of here, I just can't take what is going on in this thread:
We, the gamers, should be rooting for the companies that bring the games to us. Instead, here I too often witness how the companies are prime evil and the pirates are the brave crusaders. Please, please, please, don't whine and cry and call out the companies when you get less AAA products for windows/linux because of your friendly pirates. Just don't. You supported them, you rooted for them, now live with the consequences.

I, for one, will keep paying for the games I want and will hate the pirates for harming the people that work on these games.

And now - good luck, keep gaming AND PAYING.

I have no idea how you read what you write here in at least what I said (I actually do have some idea, now seeing your posts here). Being against DRM does NOT equal being against game developers. Thinking differently than you does NOT equal being the opposite of you AND your enemy. Grow up. I was just pointing out DRM is bad, I NEVER said game developers are bad as a whole, and I NEVER said "and this is why I pirate" (for the record, I haven't downloaded a pirated copy of a game in many years, and do my best to buy the games I play, in however little time I have left to play. My backlog is just indescribable). Basically, I fully agree with Gadzooks below. Different solutions can and should be found to minimize piracy (including, but not limited to, making sure your game is a game people will want to play and pay full price for).

If you can't take it when people in a thread think differently than you, this is your issue.

"And now - good luck, keep gaming AND PAYING."

SIR, YES SIR!!
 
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40. Re: Re: Ubisoft Denies Denuvo Slowing Assassin's Creed: Origins Nov 2, 2017, 12:43 Muscular Beaver
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 12:09:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 08:54:
Beamer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 08:45:
LittleMe wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 02:22:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 01:47:
NamecaF wrote on Nov 2, 2017, 00:55:
Rigs wrote on Nov 1, 2017, 23:52:
Kxmode wrote on Nov 1, 2017, 23:10:
Most of the complaints appear to come from people with hardware specs like two 1080TIs and an i7-4770K.

#RichWhiteBoyProblems

Hmmm, I seem to remember when Ubi said it was essential to have always-online DRM and that it 'enhanced' the experience. Crazy

=-Rigs-=

Fuck off racist

Please take your snarkodetector in for calibration. It seems to be off.

NamecaF's comment was pertinent considering what's happening today. Seemed like NamecaF delivered poetic justice to me. As we all know, all white people are racist and it's perfectly fine to attack and slander white people based on the color of their skin. Oh wait that's racist.

NBC news called all gamers racist recently in their propaganda hit piece. The wound is sore and soft and Rigs hit it. Not Rigs' fault but really, don't go there. No I don't expect Blue to post the link since it so clearly exposed the alt-left lies so here it is anyway.


Isn't there some Flat Earth rumor you should be off believing?
Of course you're also concerned about racism against white people, and of course you also say something dumb like NBC called "all" gamers racist. Does NBC say "all?" No. But you're so desperate to be offended you hear it.

Gamers like their hardware to be ugly and full or idiotic lights. Do all gamers like this? No. But no one gets angry when it's said, people just acknowledge that yes, there are gamers who do. And, if you go to reddit, there are lots of gamers who are into white power politics. If you go onto literally any voice chat there are gamers screaming it all day long. But if someone says out loud that gamers do this, someone like you doesn't go "yeah, why do you hear this stuff more while gaming than anywhere else," you go "HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ALL GAMERS OF THIS!"

I generally find those that get most angry at this tend to also be the ones screaming the n word in every game they play. It's not a perfect correlation, but fairly close. The "how dare they call me deplorable" people typically end up being the deplorable people.
You fling around quite a lot of stereotypes for a morally superior person.
Just the usual hypocrisy on the way to hell, paved with good intentions...

What stereotypes?
I spent a lot of time over the summer playing CS:Go. I got called the f word or n word pretty much nonstop. That never, ever happens to me anywhere else. But I didn't play a single round of CS:Go in which someone didn't call someone else that.

I don't feel this is a controversial statement, it's more factual.

Seriously, what stereotypes do you think I mentioned?
I have been playing CSGO since 2012 and have never even once heard that word. Others, yeah. But what makes you think video games are free of assholes that often use words they dont really mean, because they are insecure little children? Quite the opposite actually. In the 90s I learned that already. You havent learned that even now, it seems. Deal with it, if you want all people to be the same, all you will get is a society like in 1984. If youre too sensitive, ignore people like them, they shut up as quickly as they started spewing out BS like that. And sometimes you actually make friends with them and they turn out not being that bad and had only a bad day or whatever. Happened quite a few times to me. I got to know my best friend out of a situation like that, when we clashed in a game and he thought I am an asshole and vice versa, at first.
Of course if youre anti social and stereotype everyone, like... well... you just did, you wont make friends easily period. And you asking for stereotypes you mentioned makes it obvious again, that you have no clue what youre even saying. The hypocrisy... Normally I would say youre very young, but you cant be. So its obvious and I wont waste more time with you.
 
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Waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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