Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Op Ed

Loot boxes: Future of AAA or a monetisation misfire? - GamesIndustry.biz.
"Still, the dominant element of the loot box debate seems to be the consumer outrage and the notion that greedy publishers are simply trying to extract every last penny from customers already paying for their products. Naturally the most extreme reactions are amplified by social media, but are they in fact the minority? Does the very presence of microtransactions in full-price games really affect that many people, especially when so many publishers stress that they are optional?"

View
17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >

17. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 11:33 RedEye9
 
Suppa7 wrote on Oct 19, 2017, 04:28:

Gamers are not a homogenous group. Most people are irrational and technology illiterate. Once publishers discovered people are downright idiots this was inveitable, as soon as mmo's became a thing, the rest was inevitable.

Big companies just wait for a new generation of kids to grow up with the policy and most kids are stupid beyond comprehension.
That is one tired broken record you keep playing on repeat. Anything different on Side B?
 
Avatar 58135
 
https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/andy-borowitz
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 10:22 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 19, 2017, 10:00:
I love how gamesindustry.biz (aka publishersmarketingmouthpiece.biz) realllly quickly turns the word loot boxes into microtransactions.

Microtransactions are already bad enough, but at least it's a direct sale. You want that weapon, you pay 2 dollars for it. With loot boxes, you want that weapon? Buy 7000 loot boxes, and hope RNG will give it to you.

A loot box is a microtransaction (MT) with a big fucking middle finger to you, the customer.

In any case, the very existence of MTs, and even worse, loot boxes, encourages dev to turn their game into a mindless, monotonous grind. If there were no MTs, then weapons would be attainable through normal gameplay without too much difficulty. After all, they spent time on developing and implementing it, they're gonna want you to get it and play with it. (Unless the dev in question is Gearbox, then they make sure that you never see 99% of all the coolest weapons in their game. I wish a bookie would take money on Borderlands 3 having loot boxes out the ass.)

With MTs, they're going to make sure that it's NOT easy to get that weapon, because if there's no enticement, then people will not spend money. So no matter how much the fucking publishers bleat that it's "optional", the entire game will have been skewed towards it, even if only ever-so-slightly.


Gearbox loot boxes didn't piss me off thaaat much. I didn't feel like I was earning them, I didn't feel compulsion to open them, and getting keys was fairly easy, but even then I rarely felt worth the effort. I agree, that'll likely change.

I generally am ok with the idea of lootboxes until you give them as rewards and monetize the keys. That, to me, is a huge fuck you. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU EARNED THE OPPORTUNITY TO PAY US $3 FOR A WEAPON SKIN WORTH $0.35!

Fuck that. It makes me really, really angry. But if I can earn the box and the key, I'm ok with it. Maybe I have 3 boxes in my inventory and I'm waiting on keys, I'm ok with that (any more than 3 and I probably stop being ok with it.) If people need it immediately let them buy a key, or let them buy a box. Just give me a chance to participate without paying.

It's really the earning the opportunity to pay that pisses me off.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 10:00 Creston
 
I love how gamesindustry.biz (aka publishersmarketingmouthpiece.biz) realllly quickly turns the word loot boxes into microtransactions.

Microtransactions are already bad enough, but at least it's a direct sale. You want that weapon, you pay 2 dollars for it. With loot boxes, you want that weapon? Buy 7000 loot boxes, and hope RNG will give it to you.

A loot box is a microtransaction (MT) with a big fucking middle finger to you, the customer.

In any case, the very existence of MTs, and even worse, loot boxes, encourages dev to turn their game into a mindless, monotonous grind. If there were no MTs, then weapons would be attainable through normal gameplay without too much difficulty. After all, they spent time on developing and implementing it, they're gonna want you to get it and play with it. (Unless the dev in question is Gearbox, then they make sure that you never see 99% of all the coolest weapons in their game. I wish a bookie would take money on Borderlands 3 having loot boxes out the ass.)

With MTs, they're going to make sure that it's NOT easy to get that weapon, because if there's no enticement, then people will not spend money. So no matter how much the fucking publishers bleat that it's "optional", the entire game will have been skewed towards it, even if only ever-so-slightly.

 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 06:41 headshot
 
i purchase micro transactions in a lot of mobile games. i am that weak willed.

but when it comes to pc games, i only buy and enjoy the big blizz games. overwatch CE, diablo 3 and RoS CE, all wow CEs after wotlk, all sc 2 CE and i only played terran campaign and 60% zerg campaign.

sometimes i feel like i want to spend some cash on loot boxes in heroes of the storm or overwatch for a nice visual change. i also bought most of the mounts and pets in wow. but why did i?

longevity.

i know that my purchases in those games are relevant for a longer time than in other games. i ended up buying a season pass for bf4. sure, i liked what i got. but then came bf1. battlefront. battlefront 2. i rarely play bf4 now and i still have so much to unlock.

what will happen with quake champions? why does the level in battlefront 2 mean not much and i have to progress through sheer luck? playing a specific spec in bf3/bf4 meant that i could progress that path further down by using the tools of the specs. the loot boxes back then were awful, too. so much stuff for weapons i didn't use in that spec.. or logos, skins. would i have bought one for xx dollars and received a lot of clutter for my trouble, i would have been deeply saddened.

anyway. lootboxes are nice for cosmetic stuff. not as a progression reward which is totally random. also: plan a multiplayer title for a lifetime of about five years. every one or two years you "reset" the progress of your playerbase by releasing a new game. and you expect them to buy micro transactions for them? sheesh.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 04:28 Suppa7
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Oct 18, 2017, 20:53:
Most gamers are way too addicted to games to really vote with their wallets. The evidence can be seen very regularly here on this forum. They will bitch and moan and NEVER EVER buy an Actiblizz game again but come Diablo 4 or Overwatch 2 all is forgotten and that $60 preorder + $40 season pass is a go. The publishers will win this one.

Gamers are not a homogenous group. Most people are irrational and technology illiterate. Once publishers discovered people are downright idiots this was inveitable, as soon as mmo's became a thing, the rest was inevitable.

Big companies just wait for a new generation of kids to grow up with the policy and most kids are stupid beyond comprehension.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 02:06 Squirmer
 
OK, so you agree that MMOG design is exploitative too. In that case, again, why would you cheer the addition of lootboxes or other means of encouraging people to spend real money on things? That takes exploitative design and makes it a whole lot worse.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 01:29 Slick
 
I agree, I think that the existing gameplay loops or "grind" are already the highest evolution of the gambling loop that exists today. It can work without even needing a monetary reward!

I'd be FAR more concerned if I EVER caught my kid playing World of Warcraft fishing in a remote village for 7 days straight in the hopes of a 0.004% ice gem drop that he/she could sell on the marketplace for n gold. This is based on a true story, the friend never caught the ice gem, and he fished 14 hours a day for 7 days straight.

So sure, let's have the conversation about addition in videogames, and developers exploiting reward loops in human behaviour. But you have to talk about it honestly, and not claim that it was just invented last week with loot drops. If you want to do the accounting I'm really here for you, but I will not entertain strawmen arguments.
 
Avatar 57545
 
(Regarding SW:Battlefront II) Frostshite is a horrible piece of shit engine that makes games look artificial as if you were playing on a movie set instead of the actual location. -CJ_Parker
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 00:55 DarkCntry
 
Squirmer wrote on Oct 18, 2017, 23:49:
If you're so impulsive that you HAVE to spend extra money because you HAVE to be first to have all of the things, and you don't want to jus tplay the game normally, then you have bigger issues. And FUCK YES if publishers want to eexploit your obsessive compulsive behaviour in order to give all DLC away to all players for free... then FUCK YESSSSSS keep it coming.

Why would you cheer this? Gambling addiction destroys people's lives, and many games use the same kind of psychological exploitation. That's the issue here. Plenty of companies employ psychologists to implement the best ways to make people spend money. They don't kindly offer these items, they cynically try to compel people to purchase them. Just because you can resist doesn't mean everyone can.
Arguing the whole 'gambling addiction' thing is really kinda funny.

Basic gameplay loops can, and usually do, satisfy the same requirements for people that claim things like lootboxes are implemented in ways to exploit those with said addiction.
 
Avatar 24330
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 00:41 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Oct 19, 2017, 00:00:
I have it on good authority that old men are the future.
That's cuz we vote.
 
Avatar 22024
 
Stay a while, and listen.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2017, 00:00 NKD
 
I have it on good authority that old men are the future.  
Avatar 43041
 
The solution to the toxicity of identity politics surely isn't to add white identity politics to the mix.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 23:49 Squirmer
 
If you're so impulsive that you HAVE to spend extra money because you HAVE to be first to have all of the things, and you don't want to jus tplay the game normally, then you have bigger issues. And FUCK YES if publishers want to eexploit your obsessive compulsive behaviour in order to give all DLC away to all players for free... then FUCK YESSSSSS keep it coming.

Why would you cheer this? Gambling addiction destroys people's lives, and many games use the same kind of psychological exploitation. That's the issue here. Plenty of companies employ psychologists to implement the best ways to make people spend money. They don't kindly offer these items, they cynically try to compel people to purchase them. Just because you can resist doesn't mean everyone can.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 23:04 Kxmode
 
I am not sure if this applies, so correct if I am wrong, but I remember in Assassin's Creed Unity there was one primary story mission where I could not do it unless I had a particular item. The item in question was 115K in-game currency or $10 cash-shop currency. I had around 45K in-game currency. It would have taken me forever to do enough side missions to get 115K. That is when I was forced to download a trainer so that I could cheat funds. That was the only time in AC's series where an item gated by microtransactions prevented me from completing the game. It is also one of the reasons Unity is last on my list of top AC games.  
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 22:20 Slick
 
Ozmodan wrote on Oct 18, 2017, 20:49:
Yeah the problem is these loot boxes are rapidly becoming necessary, not just optional.

What is this nonsense? It's "not optional"? Come on. Give me one example of a full-price ($60 USD) game where you HAVE to spend extra money on convenience shortcuts?

I've spent money on free-to-play games before, where you PRACTICALLY have to spend some money at some point unless you just have infinite free time.

I've spent money on free-to-play mobile games (South Park: Phone Destroyer most recently).

This is totally different from what is essentially an XP boost in a AAA game where you can get all the same abilities/items/weapons by just playing the game. I've NEVER done this, never spent a dime on a game I already bought for $60 for fucking shortcuts. I've never even felt slightly inclined to cheat my way through the normal progression of a game in order to get unlocks faster than other people. And I've played almost every AAA game in the last 20 years.

If you're so impulsive that you HAVE to spend extra money because you HAVE to be first to have all of the things, and you don't want to jus tplay the game normally, then you have bigger issues. And FUCK YES if publishers want to eexploit your obsessive compulsive behaviour in order to give all DLC away to all players for free... then FUCK YESSSSSS keep it coming.
 
Avatar 57545
 
(Regarding SW:Battlefront II) Frostshite is a horrible piece of shit engine that makes games look artificial as if you were playing on a movie set instead of the actual location. -CJ_Parker
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 22:02 Squirmer
 
If AAA games really can't exist without screwing over customers, then I'm happy to stick with smaller games with more sensible budgets.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
3. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 21:58 Cutter
 
For the big publishers it is. For all the smaller devs who want to capture the market that hates that sort of shit the future is wide open for them to do so. Also it depends on the style of game. What's the point of loot boxes in CRPGs or RTS' or 4X games? FPS' and ARPGs are really the only 2 genres where you could see people really buying them.
 
Avatar 25394
 
You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
2. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 20:53 CJ_Parker
 
Most gamers are way too addicted to games to really vote with their wallets. The evidence can be seen very regularly here on this forum. They will bitch and moan and NEVER EVER buy an Actiblizz game again but come Diablo 4 or Overwatch 2 all is forgotten and that $60 preorder + $40 season pass is a go. The publishers will win this one.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
1. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 20:49 Ozmodan
 
Yeah the problem is these loot boxes are rapidly becoming necessary, not just optional.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >




Blue's News is a participant in Amazon Associates programs
and earns advertising fees by linking to Amazon.



footer

Blue's News logo