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Morning Tech Bits

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14. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 18, 2017, 13:01 Verno
 
Sure is a nice circle you guys have going on here
 
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13. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 18, 2017, 07:42 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 22:24:
NKD wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 18:11:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 17:48:

Rant over.

I've done similar rants. It puzzles me how anyone other than the very wealthy can get behind what passes for right wing economics in this country.

I guess it's simply a matter of distracting people by pointing to the people below them on the economic ladder. If you tell some conservative making $50,000 a year that people making $20,000 a year are going to be getting benefits paid for by his taxes, he's going to get upset.

"I don't want my money going to people who didn't earn it!"

So he supports lowering taxes on the rich because he thinks "Well I sure don't want my money going to the poors, I can't blame them for not wanting to do it either." Of course he says this not realizing he is one of the poors to them, and his quality of life is largely possible due to the tax burden that the wealthy carry.

All Americans think they'll be rich someday. It's the same reason lots of Americans support killing the estate tax. They think they'll have more than $5M that they'll need to pass on to their kids.
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“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

&#8213; Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress

“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”

&#8213; Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Slaughterhouse-Five

As for the estate tax, I think most just don't realize the ~$5M cap. I see it being a huge talking point, particularly for libertarians, and I keep asking them why the hell they bring something up so frequently that impacts well less than 1% of Americans. Libertarians think they'll be rich.

My dad is 80, and knows he won't be, and he brought it up repeatedly during the election. I'd point out that it $5M. Each time this was new information to him, because talk radio and Fox News never gives him that information. So he'd then complain about the state estate tax. Fine, I'd say, vote out your governor, but what does that have to do with the presidential election and why do you keep trusting ranting talking heads with far more than $5M in assets that keep telling you to care about this without giving you all the information?
 
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12. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 18, 2017, 00:29 Orogogus
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 22:24:
NKD wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 18:11:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 17:48:

Rant over.

I've done similar rants. It puzzles me how anyone other than the very wealthy can get behind what passes for right wing economics in this country.

I guess it's simply a matter of distracting people by pointing to the people below them on the economic ladder. If you tell some conservative making $50,000 a year that people making $20,000 a year are going to be getting benefits paid for by his taxes, he's going to get upset.

"I don't want my money going to people who didn't earn it!"

So he supports lowering taxes on the rich because he thinks "Well I sure don't want my money going to the poors, I can't blame them for not wanting to do it either." Of course he says this not realizing he is one of the poors to them, and his quality of life is largely possible due to the tax burden that the wealthy carry.

All Americans think they'll be rich someday. It's the same reason lots of Americans support killing the estate tax. They think they'll have more than $5M that they'll need to pass on to their kids.

I don't think that's as true as it used to be. I'm inclined to think NKD's analysis is more on point. People on the right tend to fixate on illegal aliens and social programs. That's what you see all over conservative websites and people's Facebook pages.

I think normal people rooting for the repeal of the estate tax is just the result of Trump and the conservatives lying about it all the time, selling it as something that directly benefits people with way less than $5M to bequeath.
 
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11. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 22:24 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 18:11:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 17:48:

Rant over.

I've done similar rants. It puzzles me how anyone other than the very wealthy can get behind what passes for right wing economics in this country.

I guess it's simply a matter of distracting people by pointing to the people below them on the economic ladder. If you tell some conservative making $50,000 a year that people making $20,000 a year are going to be getting benefits paid for by his taxes, he's going to get upset.

"I don't want my money going to people who didn't earn it!"

So he supports lowering taxes on the rich because he thinks "Well I sure don't want my money going to the poors, I can't blame them for not wanting to do it either." Of course he says this not realizing he is one of the poors to them, and his quality of life is largely possible due to the tax burden that the wealthy carry.

All Americans think they'll be rich someday. It's the same reason lots of Americans support killing the estate tax. They think they'll have more than $5M that they'll need to pass on to their kids.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2017, 22:41.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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10. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 19:57 Mordecai Walfish
 
The greatest tool in the Republican playbook for getting elected over the past many decades, is getting lower/middle income folks to vote against their own interests time and time again. The current method seems to be to make facts themselves meaningless and create an entirely separate media where they can stream propaganda to a good portion of the country 24/7. It is literally insane how Orwellian these fuckers have become..  
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9. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 18:11 NKD
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 17:48:

Rant over.

I've done similar rants. It puzzles me how anyone other than the very wealthy can get behind what passes for right wing economics in this country.

I guess it's simply a matter of distracting people by pointing to the people below them on the economic ladder. If you tell some conservative making $50,000 a year that people making $20,000 a year are going to be getting benefits paid for by his taxes, he's going to get upset.

"I don't want my money going to people who didn't earn it!"

So he supports lowering taxes on the rich because he thinks "Well I sure don't want my money going to the poors, I can't blame them for not wanting to do it either." Of course he says this not realizing he is one of the poors to them, and his quality of life is largely possible due to the tax burden that the wealthy carry.
 
Avatar 43041
 
You mechs may have copper wiring to reroute your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.
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8. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 17:48 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 16:42:
The Half Elf wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 12:04:
I can't blame them. Going from my old Amazon building to the brand new biggest sort center ever, it's night and day the level of tech and engineering that goes into a place. Once they get driver-less vehicles, and robots that can load and unload trucks, Amazon will be vastly automated.

Well, you CAN blame them, it's just that they don't give a shit. Once their revenue streams dry up, I'm sure corporations will blame all those "damn unemployed people who don't buy anything!" too.

That's why I always argue against conservative economics. You're doing so in an extreme here, and maybe you already agree with me, but for the sake of the larger discussion I'm going to off-topic rant, haha.

Conservatives always think cutting taxes on the super wealthy will give them more money, which will lead to them giving those below them more money. Historically, this hasn't proven accurate. In the late 70s we cut the top tax bracket down from > 76% (it had been 91% for a long while, too), and then Reagan cut it even more. Under those high tax brackets, the middle class flourished. After the cuts, it shrunk while CEO pay didn't just flourish but exploded. Everyone thinks they work their asses off and deserve all they earn, so when you tell a business owner or decision maker that he's earning more money, he's likely to feel he's very much responsible and therefore take more money home. Some may trickle down, but not much and not far. $100,000 in the early 80s is $300,000 now. I feel like "making six figures" was a big deal in the 80s, but making six figures now is the equivalent of $33,000 in 1980 dollars. So if you think you're great for making six figures, in 1980s dollars it's nothing. I feel like far more people made six figures in 1980s bucks in the 1980s than now. Trickle down.

To your point, this means there's less in the economy. A guy making $20M per year can't spend it. Giving 1 man $20M means that there's maybe $5M in the economy. Giving 20M people $1 each and probably $15M gets spent, if not more. The economy runs on spending, so you're always better off spreading money amongst more targets. Reagan tax cuts have strangled the economy by consolidating money in the accounts of people who are earning far faster than they can spend.

Rant over.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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7. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 16:42 Creston
 
The Half Elf wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 12:04:
I can't blame them. Going from my old Amazon building to the brand new biggest sort center ever, it's night and day the level of tech and engineering that goes into a place. Once they get driver-less vehicles, and robots that can load and unload trucks, Amazon will be vastly automated.

Well, you CAN blame them, it's just that they don't give a shit. Once their revenue streams dry up, I'm sure corporations will blame all those "damn unemployed people who don't buy anything!" too.
 
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6. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 15:19 NKD
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 11:51:
I strongly believe that AI will take away office jobs, too. Already you're seeing traders disappearing to AI. Brokers started disappearing years ago to websites that used rudimentary AI to offer insights to people then allowed them to make the trades themselves. If you're someone in marketing doing programmatic then an algorithm will likely be able to replace you. Finance is full of places to replace with AI. Basically, any area dedicated to making decisions based on numbers can be replaced.

Automated systems will eventually take over everything where humans don't necessarily value human->human interaction. You'll still have some restaurants with human servers, because it's part of the experience. Medical professionals will always be needed at least as a comfort mechanism for the patient.

Television and film could, in theory, be created by AI using entirely synthesized actors. But I suspect the economics of the entertainment industry will favor humans strongly enough that there won't be enough market pressure to create such a product. And "real people" would probably be valued here as well.

Other than jobs where there is an emotional desire for humans, you might also see humans remain in jobs where switching to an automated system would technically be possible, but too expensive relative to the gains in efficiency.

Even if we put aside the economic impacts on the lower and middle class due to automation, there's the issue of living a meaningful life. In some societies, a huge amount of your value as a person comes from being a "hard worker" or being good at your job. Even though most of the time you're simply working to make someone else rich, there's some great pride placed in this. People often don't know what to do with themselves after they retire, particularly if they don't have a huge retirement fund. I suspect that even if the economic needs of the displaced workers are met, we'll still see a sharp spike in suicides based on this alone.
 
Avatar 43041
 
You mechs may have copper wiring to reroute your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.
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5. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 12:04 The Half Elf
 
I can't blame them. Going from my old Amazon building to the brand new biggest sort center ever, it's night and day the level of tech and engineering that goes into a place. Once they get driver-less vehicles, and robots that can load and unload trucks, Amazon will be vastly automated.  
Avatar 12670
 
Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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4. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 11:55 Creston
 
Yep. Corporations apparently feel that if the middle class completely vanishes, there will still be plenty of customers to sell their products to.

I'm not quite sure there will be, but hey, at least they saved $12 a year.
 
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3. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 11:51 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 10:08:
I'm fairly sure that's not just an American thing. I doubt people in Europe go "Yeah, a robot took my job, it's fucking AWESOME!"

In any case, automation is going to WRECK the amount of jobs available, especially low-mid level blue collar jobs. Anyone who sits there tut-tutting it is a moron.

Low level jobs, yeah. McDonald's already has touch screens you can order from in some Manhattan locations. Shake Shack let's you order via app. Someone actually taking your order at a fast food location is pointless, as it's less efficient and those people being people adds no real value - when have you ever asked a question about something at McDonald's. But how long until a robot can also cook the order? There's no art to making a fast food burger, meaning it's easy to program. It would even lead to improved consistency, which is valued at these places.

I strongly believe that AI will take away office jobs, too. Already you're seeing traders disappearing to AI. Brokers started disappearing years ago to websites that used rudimentary AI to offer insights to people then allowed them to make the trades themselves. If you're someone in marketing doing programmatic then an algorithm will likely be able to replace you. Finance is full of places to replace with AI. Basically, any area dedicated to making decisions based on numbers can be replaced.

The NYT had a great article about a bearing factory being sent to Mexico over the weekend, and I highly recommend it. Great insights all around, from when the woman being laid off realized she could buy a $19 dress because some other American lost their job, to the Mexican replacement worker realizing the woman he'd been befriending and trained by for the past few weeks wasn't voluntarily leaving her job but he was actually "stealing it."
One of the strong insights was about how traditionally female jobs are harder to replace. A blue-collarish job like a hospital tech, or even nurse, is very hard to automate out and probably impossible to offshore (though lowered paid techs have absolutely started taking roles and responsibilities from higher paid nurses.) But the equivalent male jobs have been mostly ones easy to either automate or offshore.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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2. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Oct 17, 2017, 11:26 LiTh
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 10:08:
I'm fairly sure that's not just an American thing. I doubt people in Europe go "Yeah, a robot took my job, it's fucking AWESOME!"

In any case, automation is going to WRECK the amount of jobs available, especially low-mid level blue collar jobs. Anyone who sits there tut-tutting it is a moron.

I think the hit for Europeans will be slower as they are much more Unionized that in the States. Germany banning Ub3r for instance because of the Taxi unions is one example. Whether they can stay competitive remains to be seen.
 
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1. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 17, 2017, 10:08 Creston
 
I'm fairly sure that's not just an American thing. I doubt people in Europe go "Yeah, a robot took my job, it's fucking AWESOME!"

In any case, automation is going to WRECK the amount of jobs available, especially low-mid level blue collar jobs. Anyone who sits there tut-tutting it is a moron.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2017, 10:21.
 
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