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Op Ed

Gamasutra-Josh's Blog -The Origin of Loot Boxes and why They are a Form of Gambling.
"Randomized progression is a powerful motivator to keep someone invested in a game, and things have taken a dark turn with the acceptance of loot boxes. By their nature, loot box design features similar pulls that have caused gambling addiction.

To see $60 games trying to integrate loot boxes into their reward and progression structure is not something I want. I said this in the video above, but I'll say it again here: Loot boxes do not provide value to the consumer. They are a tactic designed around manipulating consumers to spend money on the hope of getting something of value.

You can try spinning it all you like, but it is a dangerous precedent to see titles like Shadows of War and Battlefront 2 messing with loot boxes. If a game can't be profitable without using loot boxes, then it was never going to be profitable to begin with."

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36 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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36. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2017, 02:17 jdreyer
 
Jonjonz wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 07:52:
If lootboxes gains enough tracktion with Korparate Amerka, expect to see this applied to all consumer goods, from groceries to gasoline.

On a side note, does anyone know the history of loot boxes, like what was the first game of any kind, in the world, to implement this kind of logic/con.


I know. But I don't want to be complicit in their deaths, so I'm not going to tell you.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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34. Re: Op Ed Oct 17, 2017, 11:17 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 10:36:
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 10:34:
Jonjonz wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 07:52:
If lootboxes gains enough tracktion with Korparate Amerka, expect to see this applied to all consumer goods, from groceries to gasoline.


Soon the first corporation will announce that its staff is getting paid in loot boxes. It may have part of your salary in it! Or a roast beef sandwich! Or an old shoebox filled with sand! You never know, but you ALWAYS WIN SOMETHING!

Fuck publishers and their loot boxes.


It could be anything in that box, even a boat!

You never know! The sky is the limit! (*)







(*) The sky is not actually the limit. Limit is roughly equivalent to $0.50.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Oct 17, 2017, 10:36 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 10:34:
Jonjonz wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 07:52:
If lootboxes gains enough tracktion with Korparate Amerka, expect to see this applied to all consumer goods, from groceries to gasoline.


Soon the first corporation will announce that its staff is getting paid in loot boxes. It may have part of your salary in it! Or a roast beef sandwich! Or an old shoebox filled with sand! You never know, but you ALWAYS WIN SOMETHING!

Fuck publishers and their loot boxes.


It could be anything in that box, even a boat!
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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31. Re: Op Ed Oct 17, 2017, 10:34 Creston
 
Jonjonz wrote on Oct 17, 2017, 07:52:
If lootboxes gains enough tracktion with Korparate Amerka, expect to see this applied to all consumer goods, from groceries to gasoline.


Soon the first corporation will announce that its staff is getting paid in loot boxes. It may have part of your salary in it! Or a roast beef sandwich! Or an old shoebox filled with sand! You never know, but you ALWAYS WIN SOMETHING!

Fuck publishers and their loot boxes.

 
Avatar 15604
 
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30. Re: Op Ed Oct 17, 2017, 07:52 Jonjonz
 
If lootboxes gains enough tracktion with Korparate Amerka, expect to see this applied to all consumer goods, from groceries to gasoline.

On a side note, does anyone know the history of loot boxes, like what was the first game of any kind, in the world, to implement this kind of logic/con.

 
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29. Re: Op Ed Oct 17, 2017, 05:59 Redmask
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:18:
What's to defend, she won the popular vote.

She certainly earned that Best Runnerup in a Two Person Contest award Rolleyes

 
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28. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 19:19 Cutter
 
Oh absolutely it's gambling. It's a virtual form of roulette. You might win something really good but more often than not you're guaranteed the booby prize. It should legally be treated as gambling restricting it to adults and heavily taxed with proceeds going to charities just like lotteries.


 
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"They call me a chauvinist pig. I am . . . and I don't give a damn!" - Steve McQueen
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27. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 19:17 Prez
 
The new gambling box craze is absolutely predatory and exploitative. I think the majority of the gaming audience has accepted that because the rigid $60 price tag has never gone up for decades publishers have offset the rising cost of game development and marketing with the "season pass" and the "Silver/Gold/Deluxe/Collector's" editions which always cost a good deal above the $60 ceiling. Unless they get stupid about it like EA did with the first EA Star Wars Battlefront anyway.
But the unregulated psuedo-gambling garbage they all are partaking in most recently (and getting worse and worse with every new AAA release is nothing but insidious, cynical, exploitative GREED. In my opinion it is absolutely indefensible and unacceptable.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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26. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 16:47 Primalchrome
 
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:13:
No, for those that don't think is gambling I have a crate to sell you. To obtain the crate, you'll need to buy 500 Vernobux.
Nicely played, sir.
 
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25. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 16:20 jdreyer
 
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:28:
Getting back to loot boxes, for anyone thinking its innocuous I would just point them to their mobile store or hell, past publisher behavior. As a concept this has nowhere to go but sleaze. Maybe that's good though, let them push it to an extreme until the market won't bear it anymore. My biggest fear is how these things will influence design in the future because with profit as your motivator, you can justify anything.

Yeah, when I read stories about guys spending $11,000 on fucking Clash of Clans, you know they're tapping into that addictive personality trait.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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24. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 16:12 jdreyer
 
The Half Elf wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 11:20:
Where is all the fucking "savings" that publishers promised by going to digital copies of games?

Hookers.

And blow.

And to pay devs to build lootboxes.
 
Avatar 22024
 
If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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23. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 16:06 jdreyer
 
Blue wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 10:33:
Primalchrome wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 10:27:
....this seems odd. I don't know of anyone that doesn't understand that Loot Boxes are a form of gambling.

Except the ESRB.

It's hard for them to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it.
 
Avatar 22024
 
If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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22. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 15:26 loomy
 
loot boxes are gambling and should be banned. period.  
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21. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 14:32 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:28:
Getting back to loot boxes, for anyone thinking its innocuous I would just point them to their mobile store or hell, past publisher behavior. As a concept this has nowhere to go but sleaze. Maybe that's good though, let them push it to an extreme until the market won't bear it anymore. My biggest fear is how these things will influence design in the future because with profit as your motivator, you can justify anything.

It's mobile design creeping in to AAA games. I still blame Valve above all, and still blame loot boxes for why I stopped CS:Go.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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20. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 14:28 Verno
 
Getting back to loot boxes, for anyone thinking its innocuous I would just point them to their mobile store or hell, past publisher behavior. As a concept this has nowhere to go but sleaze. Maybe that's good though, let them push it to an extreme until the market won't bear it anymore. My biggest fear is how these things will influence design in the future because with profit as your motivator, you can justify anything.  
Playing: Ni No Kuni 2, Persona 5, Vermintide 2
Watching: Annihilation, The Quiet Place, A Dark Song
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19. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 14:23 Beamer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:18:
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:16:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:14:
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 11:55:
Oh you would be surprised. People will defend anything.
So true, people will even defend orange jesus and the republican party.

Some people will defend the election campaign of HRC so yeah, right there with ya
What's to defend, she won the popular vote.

It's hard to say she ran a smart campaign, or a good one against Trump. She may have been the better candidate all around, but she ran a pretty poor campaign and let Trump lead the conversation, and her, every step of the way.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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18. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 14:18 RedEye9
 
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:16:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:14:
Verno wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 11:55:
Oh you would be surprised. People will defend anything.
So true, people will even defend orange jesus and the republican party.

Some people will defend the election campaign of HRC so yeah, right there with ya
What's to defend, she won the popular vote.
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report
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17. Re: Op Ed Oct 16, 2017, 14:17 Beamer
 
Ozmodan wrote on Oct 16, 2017, 14:04:
This nonsense that they are not making money leads them to include loot boxes is ridiculous. Far more people are buying their games. Secondly many of these titles are just upgrades from prior versions hence much of their prior work makes it much easier to code the game, they are certainly not starting out from scratch on most of these titles.

I have plenty of games to play so if you put in RNG loot boxes you won't see a dime from me.

For those that don't think this is gambling, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...

1) The price of games has not kept up with inflation. We were paying $50 per game then, we're paying $50 per game now. At most. Console games are actually cheaper now than then, even ignoring inflation

2) Dev team sizes have gone up exponentially. Revenues have not. Doom had 23 names in the credits (including repeats, more like 16 without.) Doom 3 had about 120. Doom 2016 was over 600

3) These are no longer small devs working in small teams. They're multinational corporations that are, or are part of, publicly traded companies. There are now institutional shareholders demanding profit growth

We're getting more for less, but there's pressure on the devs to keep up these massive sizes, and to show growth because Wall St. investors can sometimes be incredibly irrational.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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