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Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released

Middle-earth: Shadow of War is now available, offering Monolith's new action/RPG set in Tolkien's fantasy universe. This is available for Xbox One And Window 10 as an Xbox Play Anywhere title, or on Steam for older versions of Windows. Here's the official launch trailer, and here's word:

Go behind enemy lines to forge your army, conquer Fortresses and dominate Mordor from within. Experience how the award winning Nemesis System creates unique personal stories with every enemy and follower, and confront the full power of the Dark Lord Sauron and his Ringwraiths in this epic new story of Middle-earth.

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40. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 12, 2017, 12:48 Retired
 
Verno wrote on Oct 12, 2017, 08:09:
Retired wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 18:18:
Whats the issue? You can't control yourself and buy them? YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THEM TO ENJOY THE GAME OR BEAT THE GAME!?

The argument was never "you need to buy them to beat the game". It's gambling bullshit in a singleplayer game that does not belong there. Your argument defeats itself anyway. If they're so meaningless and harmless then they don't need to be in the product at all. And if no one buys them because they're meaningless, what do you think will happen in the future? Like take 10 seconds and think about the logical conclusion here. You don't think they will adjust design to ensure they make more money? I guess you have more faith in publishers than I do. I know where this leads in a few years time because I've watched it happen to the mobile market and we all know publisher behavior in general. This money doesn't go to the developers.

I feel the argument is equivalent to options on a vehicle. I buy the LIMITED edition because I enjoy the comforts that come with it. Is the moon roof, power running boards, leather heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc. needed to drive the vehicle? Nope. But they are there if people want them. I didn't buy the King Ranch truck because I don't need the things it has. I also didn't buy the Lariat, or the Eddie Bauer. But I am not mad that they offer them....

A flawed car analogy. If they want to sell a copy of the game labeled LIMITED EDITION (something publishers already fucking do) with dialed up loot drop rates to encourage more people to buy them then go ahead. At least that's up front. And by the way they should publish the odds on the box, even the lottery has to do that shit. If these motherfuckers want to be in the gambling game then they should be regulated like everyone else.

I couldn't disagree with you any more than I already have.
 
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39. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 12, 2017, 08:09 Verno
 
Retired wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 18:18:
Whats the issue? You can't control yourself and buy them? YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THEM TO ENJOY THE GAME OR BEAT THE GAME!?

The argument was never "you need to buy them to beat the game". It's gambling bullshit in a singleplayer game that does not belong there. Your argument defeats itself anyway. If they're so meaningless and harmless then they don't need to be in the product at all. And if no one buys them because they're meaningless, what do you think will happen in the future? Like take 10 seconds and think about the logical conclusion here. You don't think they will adjust design to ensure they make more money? I guess you have more faith in publishers than I do. I know where this leads in a few years time because I've watched it happen to the mobile market and we all know publisher behavior in general. This money doesn't go to the developers.

I feel the argument is equivalent to options on a vehicle. I buy the LIMITED edition because I enjoy the comforts that come with it. Is the moon roof, power running boards, leather heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc. needed to drive the vehicle? Nope. But they are there if people want them. I didn't buy the King Ranch truck because I don't need the things it has. I also didn't buy the Lariat, or the Eddie Bauer. But I am not mad that they offer them....

A flawed car analogy. If they want to sell a copy of the game labeled LIMITED EDITION (something publishers already fucking do) with dialed up loot drop rates to encourage more people to buy them then go ahead. At least that's up front. And by the way they should publish the odds on the box, even the lottery has to do that shit. If these motherfuckers want to be in the gambling game then they should be regulated like everyone else.
 
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38. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 19:58 Retired
 
DarkCntry wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 19:27:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 19:23:
Shadow of War's Denuvo Cracked in One Day
I hope they got their moneys worth.
Considering that most of the major publishers put it in for the two common types of piracy, day 1 and casual, it's probably not far off to say they might have.

That and we aren't their main market. It is all about the consoles.
 
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37. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 19:27 DarkCntry
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 19:23:
Shadow of War's Denuvo Cracked in One Day
I hope they got their moneys worth.
Considering that most of the major publishers put it in for the two common types of piracy, day 1 and casual, it's probably not far off to say they might have.
 
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36. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 19:23 RedEye9
 

Shadow of War's Denuvo Cracked in One Day
I hope they got their moneys worth.
 
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35. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 18:28 DarkCntry
 
aka_STEVE wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 09:02:
loot boxes are not needed to completely dominate , I'm barely lvl 5 or so and have 3 'EPIC' gear pieces just by defeating captains in the very first castle area.....


First area, collect the poetry pieces (probably about 15 minutes if you're being slow), put them on the barrows door, presto, your first real bonafide legendary.
 
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34. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 18:18 Retired
 
Verno wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 09:02:
It just came out yesterday, that's pretty impressive logging 20 hours but regardless, it's not about whether you HAVE to get them or not. Already spelled all of this out below. These games were never hard, they make no sense at all here.

Glad it's a non-issue for you, it's an issue for me and I'm going to talk about it. Any time I see this shit in SP games.

Was released 12 hours before they said it was going to be. 8pm the night prior.

Whats the issue? You can't control yourself and buy them? YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THEM TO ENJOY THE GAME OR BEAT THE GAME!?

I feel the argument is equivalent to options on a vehicle. I buy the LIMITED edition because I enjoy the comforts that come with it. Is the moon roof, power running boards, leather heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc. needed to drive the vehicle? Nope. But they are there if people want them. I didn't buy the King Ranch truck because I don't need the things it has. I also didn't buy the Lariat, or the Eddie Bauer. But I am not mad that they offer them....
 
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33. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 17:24 NKD
 
Started up Shadow of War and took a look for myself. So far my personal experience echoes what reviewers and other posters have said. There is no pressure to participate in paid loot crates.

Much like the Mankind Divided single player item shop, the game throws so much shit at you that you never need it.
 
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32. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 09:02 aka_STEVE
 
loot boxes are not needed to completely dominate , I'm barely lvl 5 or so and have 3 'EPIC' gear pieces just by defeating captains in the very first castle area.....

 
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31. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 09:02 Verno
 
It just came out yesterday, that's pretty impressive logging 20 hours but regardless, it's not about whether you HAVE to get them or not. Already spelled all of this out below. These games were never hard, they make no sense at all here.

Glad it's a non-issue for you, it's an issue for me and I'm going to talk about it. Any time I see this shit in SP games.
 
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30. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 08:25 Retired
 
Verno wrote on Oct 11, 2017, 06:02:
How are other games different? You aren't going to beat this game in 8 hours anyway. And if you truly are going to play 100%, it will be 80-100 hours of grind, regardless, so you will most likely have what you need.

The % of people that are going to do that are very small anyway.

Of all of you complaining, how many hours do you have in the first game? I have around 100, and I am not 100%, I have a few more things to do, including one that will require a new game as I missed something along the way.

More hours than you, I guess my argument automatically wins now. What does that even matter? People shouldn't have to pay to loot slot in a singleplayer game that they already paid for. That's how it's different from most other games.

It's already too late for a reaction to microtransactions in primarily single-player games. At this point it's simply a matter of how far can they go before it hurts sales?

Yeah we heard you already. I still disagree and I'm still going to complain. I don't think its too late and I do know that bitching does help. I think now is the perfect time actually. There's a difference between the kinds of microtransactions we're used to and loot slots.

I have 20 hours in the new game and am very OP without crates.

It is a non issue.

/Just acquired the domination ability to create my own armies and captains. I am sure it will get a lot easier from here.
 
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29. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 11, 2017, 06:02 Verno
 
How are other games different? You aren't going to beat this game in 8 hours anyway. And if you truly are going to play 100%, it will be 80-100 hours of grind, regardless, so you will most likely have what you need.

The % of people that are going to do that are very small anyway.

Of all of you complaining, how many hours do you have in the first game? I have around 100, and I am not 100%, I have a few more things to do, including one that will require a new game as I missed something along the way.

More hours than you, I guess my argument automatically wins now. What does that even matter? People shouldn't have to pay to loot slot in a singleplayer game that they already paid for. That's how it's different from most other games.

It's already too late for a reaction to microtransactions in primarily single-player games. At this point it's simply a matter of how far can they go before it hurts sales?

Yeah we heard you already. I still disagree and I'm still going to complain. I don't think its too late and I do know that bitching does help. I think now is the perfect time actually. There's a difference between the kinds of microtransactions we're used to and loot slots.
 
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28. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 20:28 NKD
 
HorrorScope wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 19:57:
I think it is fair to bring up the issues, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't buy. The general boycott thing doesn't work either. They only thing that will work is organic behavior and ROI analysis. If people are going to buy DLC, loot boxes etc, ROI will be there and there is nothing for us to do. Either you do or you don't. If it bothers someone that much, don't, don't meaning from not buying at all to not buying additions. As for the game, I'm sure it will be fun and FOV will be adjustable in time with patches.

In addition, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone "unringing the bell" when it comes to monetizing something. Once something has been monetized in a certain way, and it's been successful, it remains successful for quite some time until further adjustment is needed.

There needs to be an immediate reaction, and as you said, a hit to their ROI for the project.

It's also ineffective to say "Hey guys, we'll go for it this time, but don't go any further!" because they don't give a shit what you SAY, they give a shit what you do with your money. Saying you won't give them your money is pointless if their research indicates that sufficient numbers of people will in fact buy the product.

It's already too late for a reaction to microtransactions in primarily single-player games. At this point it's simply a matter of how far can they go before it hurts sales?

People here, probably including me at some point, complained about the advent of DLC, the downfall of expansion packs, online requirements for certain game features, etc and swore they'd never buy a game with them. But the masses disagreed, and even the die-hards eventually relented because the alternative was to find a new hobby. Or that was the perception.

The thing about gaming is that it's not a necessity of life. And even if we grant that entertainment in general IS a necessity of life, there is no exploitative monopoly or cartel among purveyors of that entertainment, when it comes to games. (Aside from arguably Steam, but the game creators themselves don't have that.)

The barrier to entry to create a game is small. It requires only available time and a willingness to learn. You can learn everything you need to learn for free without using anything but free software, and you can distribute your game for free. Asking how many game developers are there in the world is like asking how many birds are in flight right now. There's some number, but it's large and always changing. It's probably the least consolidated form of entertainment there is. Movies, music, television, magazines, books, are all incredibly consolidated.

So whats my point? My point is that consumers have all the leverage in this relationship. Publishers can only take as much money as people are willing to give. Even if you aren't willing to give up gaming, you need only give up AAA gaming. Even if you aren't willing to give up PC gaming, there are tons of indie games and free games on PC and more all the time.

If some business model is successful in gaming it's not because of some corporate malfeasance, it's because consumers approve, or at least tolerate, the behavior.

This comment was edited on Oct 10, 2017, 20:43.
 
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27. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 19:57 HorrorScope
 
I think it is fair to bring up the issues, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't buy. The general boycott thing doesn't work either. They only thing that will work is organic behavior and ROI analysis. If people are going to buy DLC, loot boxes etc, ROI will be there and there is nothing for us to do. Either you do or you don't. If it bothers someone that much, don't, don't meaning from not buying at all to not buying additions. As for the game, I'm sure it will be fun and FOV will be adjustable in time with patches.  
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26. Re: Console FoV Oct 10, 2017, 19:14 DarkCntry
 
Ozmodan wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 11:24:
DarkCntry wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 10:07:
Jagacademy wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 09:44:
The FoV is 60, with no way to change it. I'm sorry, but there is just absolutely no excuse for this in any game released in the last 25 years. It is almost impossible to comprehend, borderline criminal.

Avoid this game like the plague.

Honestly, even with the FOV that low, it's a third-person game...

Hell though, I'm just surprised the first reply wasn't someone complaining about the lootboxes despite them being wholly inconsequential.

Have you bothered to read how the loot boxes effect the game? From your comment it is rather evident you have not!
Sure, I've bothered to read them, as well as I've bothered to actually play the game.

Here's the thing...there was one review that focused on the 'necessity' of the lootboxes, and that was Polygon...you know, the same place that employs people that ask for a boss skip feature in Cuphead or the inability to actually shoot in fire in Doom...do you honestly think it's a good idea to take the word of people that have time and time again shown their inability to actually play video games?
 
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25. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 18:10 Retired
 
I don't get all the bitching.

How are other games different? You aren't going to beat this game in 8 hours anyway. And if you truly are going to play 100%, it will be 80-100 hours of grind, regardless, so you will most likely have what you need.

The % of people that are going to do that are very small anyway.

Of all of you complaining, how many hours do you have in the first game? I have around 100, and I am not 100%, I have a few more things to do, including one that will require a new game as I missed something along the way.
 
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24. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 17:54 NKD
 
thecakeisalie wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 17:15:
locking the true ending behind a grindwall

This is false, and that's part of the problem. Making up shit just to increase outrage because the truth isn't outrageous enough doesn't actually help in the long term.

Check out RPS or GameSpots review. Even legendarily incompetent-at-gaming game reviewer could complete Chapter IV without tedious grinding or buying loot boxes.
 
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23. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 17:15 thecakeisalie
 
Loot boxes and locking the true ending behind a grindwall that you can ease with real cash money make this a "no buy" for me. To those of you who can plug their nose and endorse this shameless cash grab, it's a free market. Do what you want. However, don't complain when these companies just keep getting greedier and greedier at your expense. Because that's what companies do when you let them get away with it.  
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22. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 15:03 Verno
 
Already addressed in my comment about normalization of behavior and implementation quibbling. According to your own quoted info they are adjusting frequency rate to favor cash and we all know that it's not going to stop there. Pay us to unlock items faster in a singleplayer game SUCKS. I could maybe understand this in a F2P game. I know I can just ignore these things (for now), that doesn't mean they are benign and should be tolerated.

When someone looks into this and realizes it's wildly hyperbolic, they are going to be soured on listening to ANY microtransaction criticism in the future.

I sincerely doubt that, I know and I'm still annoyed. Publishers don't understand moderation and will provide plenty of other ammo anyway. Battlefront 2 already shaping up to be a winner in this regard. This is the time to make some noise before its in every fucking game, not later on when its entrenched (arguably already getting there!).
 
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21. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War Released Oct 10, 2017, 14:19 NKD
 
Verno wrote on Oct 10, 2017, 14:09:
In terms of this specific game though, my main problem is the gating of content you already pay for.

There is no content gated behind the Paid loot boxes.

Even GameSpot's rather unflattering 70% review of the game points out that the system is non-consequential.

GameSpot wrote:
In our experience with the game, loot boxes purchased with in-game currency only earned us Epic tier rewards, instead of the paid currency’s guaranteed Legendaries. (Editor's Note 10/6 10:50 AM: It is possible to earn Legendary rewards from loot boxes bought with in-game currency, though they occur with less-frequency than Epic rewards.) However, the difference in quality between the Legendary and Epic Orc rewards, in practice, isn’t substantially different. And after finishing the game, even with buying a dozen or so 1,200 Mirian loot crates over the course of my adventure, I was still left with over 70,000 Mirian in reserve for buying plenty of more loot boxes. It’s also possible for Legendary items and Orcs to appear randomly in-game, so paying real money only serves as a guaranteed way to get one. Like so many of the other game’s systems, the paid storefront feels less predatory and more like an unnecessary addition.

But to read the controversy about it, you'd come away thinking that entire swaths of the game are locked behind microtransactions and that this is some new level of atrocity. When someone looks into this and realizes it's wildly hyperbolic, they are going to be soured on listening to ANY microtransaction criticism in the future.
 
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