wtf_man wrote on Oct 2, 2017, 09:25:

Acleacius wrote on Oct 1, 2017, 11:03:
What exactly are you advocating, mmogs with all solo content?

ESO is about as close to what I enjoy that has been produced.

However, After playing well over a year, I was reminded what I dislike most about MMOs... nerfing / rebalancing / moving the goal posts (aka more levels). And unfortunately ALL MMO's are subject to that. There is no escaping it. I find it really irritating to have the rules changed on me in the course of gameplay.

Honestly, I'd rather just play something like Skyrim to avoid that crap. I suffer from major MMO burnout, having played MUDs then M59, then EQ.

That said... Even though I've never agreed with his "Vision", I hope Brad brings you what you enjoy.

Sounds like story and single player experience is what you enjoy. Couldn't agree more and I enjoyed ESO too, playing it on and off for several years. There's an itch I just can't scratch with single player games and mmogs are the next best thing too a good Coop game. Dying Light it probably one of the better Coop games atm, though the storyline can be frustrating.

I hate the constant rebalancing, too. It's the damn pvp causing it, which I never play. So that makes me hate rebalancing and pvp.

One of the ways Vanguard made the open world dungeons much better than we had in EQ, was faster spawning. So even though it's easy to die if your not careful, you never have to camp. It was usually easy a group, at least with a moderately populated server, since the quest lines went through them. It could get grindy like most mmogs but with so many unique classes and gameplay advances, it was tolerable at least for me.

Acleacius wrote on Oct 1, 2017, 11:03:
What exactly are you advocating, mmogs with all solo content?

ESO is about as close to what I enjoy that has been produced.

However, After playing well over a year, I was reminded what I dislike most about MMOs... nerfing / rebalancing / moving the goal posts (aka more levels). And unfortunately ALL MMO's are subject to that. There is no escaping it. I find it really irritating to have the rules changed on me in the course of gameplay.

Honestly, I'd rather just play something like Skyrim to avoid that crap. I suffer from major MMO burnout, having played MUDs then M59, then EQ.

That said... Even though I've never agreed with his "Vision", I hope Brad brings you what you enjoy.

wtf_man wrote on Sep 30, 2017, 19:14:

Acleacius wrote on Sep 30, 2017, 15:37:
I might have missed what your refering to in the article but they clearly know, what you just said and did before their second game. Not only did EQ2 not do it but clearly neither does Vanguard.

Huh?

He had little to do with EQ2 gameplay. One of the reasons he left was because things weren't going his way. And Vanguard turned out to be a commercial flop, although I never played it myself.

His "Vision" (TM) is to have a world so dangerous that you can't walk 10 ft in a dungeon without getting pwned unless you are grouped with several people.

In a world of cord cutters where folks watch things on their own schedule... it's difficult to rely on others constantly being available for groups, and to mainly only do "group content" all the effin time. And if you don't play his way... aka solo... you are punished by a severe cut in progression rate.

He hasn't changed. Just look at his "Bring Friends" video on the Pantheon site.

Right, iirc he was just around for about 2 to 3 years of EQ2 development. He resigned in 2002 and the game was released 2004.

Yeah, your right about dungeon designs and why they don't work well for all players, with tough schedules. Like I mentioned they did recognize it because it improved in Vanguard. It does require a certain amount of server population, for the open world dungeons. Since Vanguard was forced out early by at least 6 months, it had a negative cascade effect. If it had been completed, it could have easily worked with half the population of EQ2.

On the other hand what they 'did do' and 'what they were making' was remarkable. They literately had more than 100 handmade, unique open world dungeons. There was also 100s of hours of solo and 2 person quests, in one of the largest land masses in gaming att. Not to mention they were the first to have flying mounts. Also there was going to be missions and dungeons as sea battles on ships. Ships which were in the game and craftable by crafters, though not the largest.

These guys are the answer to, not just another mmog.

Edit: Oh I did see it and enjoyed it. Obviously showing a 4-6 man dungeon run doesn't mean there isn't solo or 2 man, content. What exactly are you advocating, mmogs with all solo content?

This comment was edited on Oct 1, 2017, 11:27.

Acleacius wrote on Sep 30, 2017, 15:37:
I might have missed what your refering to in the article but they clearly know, what you just said and did before their second game. Not only did EQ2 not do it but clearly neither does Vanguard.

Huh?

He had little to do with EQ2 gameplay. One of the reasons he left was because things weren't going his way. And Vanguard turned out to be a commercial flop, although I never played it myself.

His "Vision" (TM) is to have a world so dangerous that you can't walk 10 ft in a dungeon without getting pwned unless you are grouped with several people.

In a world of cord cutters where folks watch things on their own schedule... it's difficult to rely on others constantly being available for groups, and to mainly only do "group content" all the effin time. And if you don't play his way... aka solo... you are punished by a severe cut in progression rate.

He hasn't changed. Just look at his "Bring Friends" video on the Pantheon site.

wtf_man wrote on Sep 30, 2017, 11:58:
He's obviously still on crack.

The only reason Everquest was successful was because of lack of competition at the time and it was the first real 3D MMO (Polygons instead of sprites like M59).

The forced-grouping / camping same mobs over and over / take forever to regenerate between kills / complete imbalance between melee and magic / kill stealing / crap loot distribution / naked corpse running / severe experience and loot death penalty days are long gone.

Most people don't like the premise of sitting around to chat between kills because it takes so long to regenerate and for the mob to respawn. That's not social nor "immersive". That's an unnecessary time sink in order for the game to be stretched out for profit on a subscription (which is also why he is against Free To Play).

It has nothing to do with lack of attention. It has to do with not wanting to pay for a glorified chat room (a world as he calls it) instead of a game.

/shrug

I might have missed what your refering to in the article but they clearly know, what you just said and did before their second game. Not only did EQ2 not do it but clearly neither does Vanguard.

He's obviously still on crack.

The only reason Everquest was successful was because of lack of competition at the time and it was the first real 3D MMO (Polygons instead of sprites like M59).

The forced-grouping / camping same mobs over and over / take forever to regenerate between kills / complete imbalance between melee and magic / kill stealing / crap loot distribution / naked corpse running / severe experience and loot death penalty days are long gone.

Most people don't like the premise of sitting around to chat between kills because it takes so long to regenerate and for the mob to respawn. That's not social nor "immersive". That's an unnecessary time sink in order for the game to be stretched out for profit on a subscription (which is also why he is against Free To Play).

It has nothing to do with lack of attention. It has to do with not wanting to pay for a glorified chat room (a world as he calls it) instead of a game.

/shrug

SlimRam wrote on Sep 29, 2017, 20:10:
Chris Roberts has a beach front game he'd like to sell you.

This was my first thought, "Sooo, he's auditioning for a job with RSI?"

Fuck sake... if he pulls out "The Vision" again I'm running like hell!

I've been watching gameplay videos and can't wait to play Pantheon!

I'm stilling logging into Vanguard Emulator and helping them recreate Mekalia as it was originally. One of the many dumb things soe did was overthrow the Gnome homeland. It completely destroyed the starter area and capital city quests. I must be the only one who remembers it and fondly, all those hot gnome babes!

Chris Roberts has a beach front game he'd like to sell you.