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Out of the Blue

It's football Sunday, but I just need to celebrate the news that the New York Knicks are trading Carmelo Anthony to the Oklahoma City Thunder. They acquired the star forward in exchange for most of their starting lineup 2011, and the rest, as they say, is history. Crappy, petulant, also-ran history. The Knicks are on an addition by subtraction roll, as they also recently jettisoned Phil Jackson, but I don't expect the team to be better until they find a way to trade James Dolan to the Thunder as well. At least we are closing this latest dreadful chapter of the team's history. The end of an error, so to speak. Bye bye Melo... looking forward to the stories of the harmony and good vibes you bring to your new team.

Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Warzone Mercenaries.
Links: Firefly: Nathan Fillion celebrates 15th anniversary.
Science: Nasa facility honors African American woman who plotted key space missions.
Robot In China Successfully Performs Dental Surgery On Living Person.
Is beaming down in Star Trek a death sentence? Thanks Neutronbeam.
Media: WowCraft Ep 39 Winning Streaking.
Relax and Pet Your Dog.
Drone Flight of the Year.
The Funnies: Math Hipsters - FoxTrot.

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28 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 19:35 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 04:36:
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 21:45:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 18:47:
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:49:
Re: The Star Trek transporter.

There's no problem because "continuity of consciousness" is an illusion created by our memory. We only remember the past in so far as our memories recall them for us. These memories are inaccurate and often change.

The debate necessitates the existence of some magical nonsense like a soul. Something separate from your body which can become detached when you are transported. If all you are is your body, then you aren't dying anymore than a toaster that's been taken apart and put back together properly. Both still work the same as they did before.

How do you account for identical twins then? Your twin is not you, even though you have the same genetics.

Twins may look similar because of shared genetics, but they aren't a single organism. Twins are no harder to account for than two of the same model of toaster. The illusion of continuity depends on the contents of memory, which in turn depends on the biological construction of the brain, and twins don't share that.
But that's exactly my point: if you deconstruct something or someone, then reconstruct it or them, is it original or a clone/copy? A twin or clone has your exact makeup, but they aren't you. If you teleport Star Trek style, will you still be looking through your eyes?

You will be conscious throughout and "experience" the actual teleport too, which leaves some interesting ethical and psychological questions though.... that's at least how Star Trek showed it. If we go by how the EXPLAINED it then you are literally entering a suicide box. But I guess nobody at Star Trek writer staff thought about the implications, they just thought it'd be a cool tech to have. I would still prefer teleporters to NOT be a thing though.

So the teleporter literally transfers your consciousness into a digital buffer, probably with a digital facsimile body, and then transfers you back over 1:1 wherever it is you need to go. Apparently this is pretty quick so you don't have time to feel like the Doctor on the Voyager... except when the teleport fails.

Let's ignore the fact that this is an absolutely dumb way to travel if you can separate consciousness from meat-body.. Ghost in the Shell showed what is possible. You teleport a puppet body or biological avatar and "assume direct control" and you are basically immortal through that.

Oh man, how I would love a Ghost in the Shell inspired Star Trek....
 
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 19:31 eRe4s3r
 
Pigeon wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 08:56:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 02:50:
The Half Elf wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 00:59:
Anyone watch Star Trek Discovery?

Yep, seems like a good start, but no idea where it's going

I liked it, generally good writing and so far intrigued by the plot/promise of action. Though because of a football game going long I get the feeling parts of it may have been cut. It certainly ended abruptly, it went to commercial, and when “it” resumed “it” was NCIS. There was one event that seemed to be motivated by very flimsy rationale. [SPOILERS] When she goes EVA because they don’t have shuttle craft, or ones that are as maneuverable as a space suit, I got the sense it was only done for the purpose of being cool. Also a little worried the main character might be too much of a Mary Sue. More [SPOILERS] Also I’m assuming that was the last episode for the main character since she assaulted the captain and attempted to commandeer the ship. She’ll be thrown out the air lock for treason right before the Klingons kill everyone right?

Yeah you are definitely missing an entire part of the 2nd episode there.... Spoilers if you are curious
The Klingons don't kill everyone, they use a torpedo warhead attached to a dead Klingon to detonate that thing close to the big ship, that cripples the big ship, they (captain and first) teleport over with the plan to capture the Kligon chief, but that goes haywire, Captain dies in combat and 1st is teleported out.

She is courtmartialed to lifelong imprisonment, but the captain (who I think is gonna be awesome ,p) of the titular ship "USS Discovery" picks her out and transfers her to his crew (why we don't know yet, but it's probably something to do with her heritage and the ship itself, which seems to be a pretty big vessel)


So yeah. What a shitty thing by CBS to do. And yes, that means the 1st is literally serving time on the Discovery. So it's not a thing she could have refused
 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 10:39 sauron
 

...I don't expect the team to be better until they find a way to trade James Dolan to the Thunder as well.

Or to anyone or anywhere. A shack in Alaska, a desert island surrounded by sharks, or maybe the bottom of New York harbor.
 
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Kittens!
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 08:56 Pigeon
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 02:50:
The Half Elf wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 00:59:
Anyone watch Star Trek Discovery?

Yep, seems like a good start, but no idea where it's going

I liked it, generally good writing and so far intrigued by the plot/promise of action. Though because of a football game going long I get the feeling parts of it may have been cut. It certainly ended abruptly, it went to commercial, and when “it” resumed “it” was NCIS. There was one event that seemed to be motivated by very flimsy rationale. [SPOILERS] When she goes EVA because they don’t have shuttle craft, or ones that are as maneuverable as a space suit, I got the sense it was only done for the purpose of being cool. Also a little worried the main character might be too much of a Mary Sue. More [SPOILERS] Also I’m assuming that was the last episode for the main character since she assaulted the captain and attempted to commandeer the ship. She’ll be thrown out the air lock for treason right before the Klingons kill everyone right?
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 08:53 NKD
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 04:36:
If you teleport Star Trek style, will you still be looking through your eyes?

There is no "you" that is separate from your body. Your body will be deconstructed, then reconstructed, and the resulting body will be identical to your previous body, and have all the same memories.

Whether its an original or copy only matters in so far as the copy is imperfect. If it is a perfect copy, and the "original" is destroyed, then it is, for all intents and purposes, the original. To an outside observer, there's still a "you" doing all the things you would have been doing. From the perspective of the "copy" they are you. Those are the only two perspectives that exist.

I think people envision this situation where they get transported, get killed, then their consciousness floats in blackness while some copy gets to live their life.
 
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The solution to the toxicity of identity politics surely isn't to add white identity politics to the mix.
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 06:20 Orogogus
 
Twins aren't genetically identical -- a certain amount of variation is introduced throughout development -- and there's more to your makeup than just genetics. Like, specifically in the case of memory, there's no reason to expect a twin's brain to have formed the same neural pathways. Unless Star Trek transporters really use the genetic code and nothing else, this seems like arguing that it's impossible to copy a floppy disc since all discs start out the same.  
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 04:36 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 21:45:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 18:47:
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:49:
Re: The Star Trek transporter.

There's no problem because "continuity of consciousness" is an illusion created by our memory. We only remember the past in so far as our memories recall them for us. These memories are inaccurate and often change.

The debate necessitates the existence of some magical nonsense like a soul. Something separate from your body which can become detached when you are transported. If all you are is your body, then you aren't dying anymore than a toaster that's been taken apart and put back together properly. Both still work the same as they did before.

How do you account for identical twins then? Your twin is not you, even though you have the same genetics.

Twins may look similar because of shared genetics, but they aren't a single organism. Twins are no harder to account for than two of the same model of toaster. The illusion of continuity depends on the contents of memory, which in turn depends on the biological construction of the brain, and twins don't share that.
But that's exactly my point: if you deconstruct something or someone, then reconstruct it or them, is it original or a clone/copy? A twin or clone has your exact makeup, but they aren't you. If you teleport Star Trek style, will you still be looking through your eyes?
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 04:32 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 02:50:
The Half Elf wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 00:59:
Anyone watch Star Trek Discovery?

Yep, seems like a good start, but no idea where it's going

If only there was a word to describe finding out something you didn't know...
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 04:14 NKD
 
Discovery is actually pretty solid. I just worry about getting invested in it knowing that the streaming exclusivity thing is likely going to kill it.  
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The solution to the toxicity of identity politics surely isn't to add white identity politics to the mix.
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 02:50 eRe4s3r
 
The Half Elf wrote on Sep 25, 2017, 00:59:
Anyone watch Star Trek Discovery?

Yep, seems like a good start, but no idea where it's going
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 00:59 The Half Elf
 
Anyone watch Star Trek Discovery?  
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Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 21:45 NKD
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 18:47:
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:49:
Re: The Star Trek transporter.

There's no problem because "continuity of consciousness" is an illusion created by our memory. We only remember the past in so far as our memories recall them for us. These memories are inaccurate and often change.

The debate necessitates the existence of some magical nonsense like a soul. Something separate from your body which can become detached when you are transported. If all you are is your body, then you aren't dying anymore than a toaster that's been taken apart and put back together properly. Both still work the same as they did before.

How do you account for identical twins then? Your twin is not you, even though you have the same genetics.

Twins may look similar because of shared genetics, but they aren't a single organism. Twins are no harder to account for than two of the same model of toaster. The illusion of continuity depends on the contents of memory, which in turn depends on the biological construction of the brain, and twins don't share that.
 
Avatar 43041
 
The solution to the toxicity of identity politics surely isn't to add white identity politics to the mix.
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 21:44 Mr. Tact
 
Cutter wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 20:24:
Yes, but all the atoms in your body are replaced about 6 times over in the course of an average lifetime yet you remain who you are. And you're unique as your fingerprints and snowflakes. I don't if that warrants a soul but it's a good argument for one. I've always held to the idea of reincarnation - maybe not quite in the way in the Hindus or Buddhists believe - but I don't believe anything ever really dies, it just gets reincorporated back into everything else. I like to believe there are higher levels of consciousness, the more of something more advanced. Like JLP said....What is death?.
I'll admit to being intrigued by the idea of possibly ascending to a higher plane of existence -- something like the way "ascending" is presented in the Stargate SG-1 series. It is also touched on in Iain Banks' culture novels, he uses the term "sublime" and it is somewhat similar in its' presentation. Even such a thing is possible, which I would be highly skeptical of, the human race is thousands, if not millions, of years away from achieving such capabilities.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 21:02 Creston
 
until they find a way to trade James Dolan to the Thunder as well

Fuck no, you keep that useless sack of shit. It's bad enough that I now have to watch Melo and Russ both glare at each all game for not handing the ball over enough. Sigh
 
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 20:24 Cutter
 
Yes, but all the atoms in your body are replaced about 6 times over in the course of an average lifetime yet you remain who you are. And you're unique as your fingerprints and snowflakes. I don't if that warrants a soul but it's a good argument for one. I've always held to the idea of reincarnation - maybe not quite in the way in the Hindus or Buddhists believe - but I don't believe anything ever really dies, it just gets reincorporated back into everything else. I like to believe there are higher levels of consciousness, the more of something more advanced. Like JLP said....What is death?.


 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 19:21 eRe4s3r
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 18:47:
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:49:
Re: The Star Trek transporter.

There's no problem because "continuity of consciousness" is an illusion created by our memory. We only remember the past in so far as our memories recall them for us. These memories are inaccurate and often change.

The debate necessitates the existence of some magical nonsense like a soul. Something separate from your body which can become detached when you are transported. If all you are is your body, then you aren't dying anymore than a toaster that's been taken apart and put back together properly. Both still work the same as they did before.

How do you account for identical twins then? Your twin is not you, even though you have the same genetics.

I know identical twins (well, 1 pair of em anyway) and though it may be their age (11 now), but I can tell them apart easily. I am saying from a pure body development standpoint, and also from personality standpoint.

Your genetics do not define who you are. Nurture is what defines the illusion of "continuity of consciousness" aka, what makes you you. And all research indicates that the state of consciousness is transferable because we found nothing that inherently defines it. Assuming the identical energy patterns are transfered, you would have no "cut" in between teleportation. You would literally come out as "you" only better, because cell entropy would be reset, making you potentially live forever.
 
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 19:21 theglaze
 
Funny, the Thunder should remember Melo!

https://youtu.be/6DCJXYbBB7w
 
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10. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 18:47 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:49:
Re: The Star Trek transporter.

There's no problem because "continuity of consciousness" is an illusion created by our memory. We only remember the past in so far as our memories recall them for us. These memories are inaccurate and often change.

The debate necessitates the existence of some magical nonsense like a soul. Something separate from your body which can become detached when you are transported. If all you are is your body, then you aren't dying anymore than a toaster that's been taken apart and put back together properly. Both still work the same as they did before.

How do you account for identical twins then? Your twin is not you, even though you have the same genetics.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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9. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 17:57 NKD
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:51:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 24, 2017, 17:47:
Firefly: Nathan Fillion celebrates 15th anniversary.

Show still holds up. Browncoats forever!

I loved Firely, and the movie Serenity. However now I can't go back and watch it, because Adam Baldwin is such a piece of shit in real life.

Adam Baldwin is a pretty run of the mill conservative type. I disagree with him on basically everything, but I wouldn't call him a piece of shit any more than the rest of the conservatives in the country. At least I haven't heard of him beating his wife, raping a bunch of women, running dog fights, or doing the other things that normally get celebrities called pieces of shit.
 
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The solution to the toxicity of identity politics surely isn't to add white identity politics to the mix.
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