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Out of the Blue

Happy autumn to the northern hemisphere and happy spring to those in the southern. It's actually not here yet, as the autumnal equinox is today at 4:02 pm EDT, but we don't need to split hairs here. This is a little less jarring for me this year than it often is, as I have a friend in Australia who has been posting pictures of flowers from her garden lately, but I do admit to almost deliberately ignoring the earlier sundowns lately and the smattering of fallen leaves on the lawn.

Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Megaclash Warriors League.
Stories: A Delta Flight Beat Hurricane Irma Out of San Juan Airport, and It Was NBD.
With 'Star Trek- Discovery,' CBS Discovers That TV Ain't Easy Anymore.
Science: How flying seriously messes with your mind. Thanks Slashdot.
There cannot be two kinds of medicine: EU scientists shred homeopathy, alt med.
Alarm as 'super malaria' spreads in South East Asia.
Media: Jeff Kaplan: the consequences of toxic behaviour. Thanks PCGamesN.
Just your everyday traffic in Russia.
Let me see what you have.

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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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44. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 26, 2017, 11:51 Creston
 
VoodooV wrote on Sep 23, 2017, 21:51:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/treknology-weapons.htm

inconsistencies in phasers among many other things.

I stand corrected on the phasers in warp theory.
 
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43. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 25, 2017, 15:26 Kxmode
 
Q: Why is this a mutually exclusive decision?
A: Watching only Oroville or Discovery and not the other IS a mutually exclusive decision. I'm watching both to decide which I like more.

Q: Also, did you just combine "Seth McFarlane" and "Star Trek" and come up with "proper Star Trek series?"
A: Yes, I did. The show isn't about Seth McFarlane. It's about the Oroville. This includes all the other characters, earth, and whatever the writers call the Federation, plus the aliens. The show looks like Star Trek from the bright lights, sets, away mission, uniforms, humor (yes, there was humor in TNG and DS9), and so forth.

Q: Lastly, how does Discovery not look like Star Trek?
A: Safe to say, everything.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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42. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 24, 2017, 03:52 jdreyer
 
Kxmode wrote on Sep 23, 2017, 23:09:
I'm going to watch both Oroville and Discovery. I'll know then which is worth my time. At the moment, I am leaning towards Oroville because the show looks like a proper Star Trek series.

Why is this a mutually exclusive decision? Also, did you just combine "Seth McFarlane" and "Star Trek" and come up with "proper Star Trek series?" Lastly, how does Discovery not look like Star Trek?
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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41. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 23:09 Kxmode
 
I'm going to watch both Oroville and Discovery. I'll know then which is worth my time. At the moment, I am leaning towards Oroville because the show looks like a proper Star Trek series.  
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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40. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 21:51 VoodooV
 
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/treknology-weapons.htm

inconsistencies in phasers among many other things.
 
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39. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 13:58 Creston
 
VoodooV wrote on Sep 23, 2017, 13:55:
Phasers at warp have been done in Voyager, DS9 and ENT, and Into Darkness yeah it's stupid...but it just exists. They're never going to be perfectly consistent.

No, I'm pretty sure they haven't? Torpedoes, yes. Not Phasers.

In any case, I've now spent enough time talking about Star Trek Fucking Enterprise.
 
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38. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 13:55 VoodooV
 
Now we're just nitpicking inconsistencies in the show. Well that's existed since the dawn of television and movies. So I'm not just going to go there.

Phasers at warp have been done in Voyager, DS9 and ENT, and Into Darkness yeah it's stupid...but it just exists. They're never going to be perfectly consistent.

You're exactly right about the Borg in ENT, watching the crew simply turbocharge their primitive phasers to shoot the borg was ridiculous. But again, that just goes back The borg episode being a stupid idea in the first place. But heck, even when they did make the borg OP in that episode where the borg take over this basic transport ship and somehow borgify into something that the Enterprise barely manages to destroy is ridiculous. There was some bit about how the ship had grown in mass and grown weapons nodes. Sorry, but even the borg shouldn't have been able to modify the ship THAT quickly, much less be a match for an NX-01 was just silly.

Hell, just the notion that the Enterprise E just missed all that borg debris and crew crashing to Earth is stupid.

But again, we're back to the reality that there have always been ridiculous episodes like this. Drama and the rule of cool are always going to trump consistency

TOS had Spock's Brain and the incredibly sexist Turnabout Intruder where apparently TOS Starfleet apparently don't like no wimmin captains, yet in the ENT era, their 2nd NX ship was captained by a woman and no fucks were given about that. TNG had Genesis (the de-evolving episode). DS9 had Profit and Lace. Voyager had obviously Threshold and a bunch of other shitty episodes.

I take the good with the bad and not watching this stuff just because of some bad episodes is a real disservice. I'd say at a minimum, you need to watch the fourth season of ENT (just ignore the two parter about time traveling nazi aliens)
 
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37. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 12:29 Creston
 
VoodooV wrote on Sep 23, 2017, 10:12:
Enterprise definitely had some groan-inducing moments, but Creston is kinda being fake news here or he watched some other show, I don't know

Nah, I watched it once. Stopped after season 1, watched one or two eps in season 2 and a few of the Xindi episodes, and just quit after that.


Uhm, no, they didn't visit earth. They were survivors from the blown-up borg sphere in First Contact, which happens before Ent. Yes, it really pissed me off that they had a borg story in Ent, but still, get your facts straight.

Then what the fuck happens to them? They would literally be Gods in the days before Zephram Cochrane. I barely remember most episodes, but I seem to recall them just leaving. For that matter, why don't they build their hyperpulse beacon or whatever that they use to draw the rest of the Borg to Earth? There are just so many inconsistencies with the idea of the Borg having been in touch with humans BEFORE Q sends Picard & Co there.

This is why I hate sloppily done prequel shows. If you want to do a prequel, you have to be SO FUCKING CAREFUL not to overwrite or change something. Braga instead was like a toddler with a crayon and a coloring book.

you're probably right about that one, I don't recall anything specific, but that's the kind of thing only the hard core nerds care about so...

It's a minor thing, true, but it's technology that doesn't even exist in Voyager's time frame. It just shows how little Braga gave a shit about keeping things consistent.

Uhm, no it didn't. They do meet a race that had them. And I guess Daniels had that portable holodeck observatory thingy, but Daniels was from like the 29th century or something. So no, Enterprise didn't have holodecks. Yeah, when they met that race that did holodecks, it did make me go "well gee, it took StarFleet a long time to reverse engineer that technology" but again, please get it right.

Fair enough, I actually just wrote that wrong. I didn't actually mean to say the SHIP had it, I meant the SHOW had them, when it was sort of made reasonably clear that holodecks are a Ferengi invention and are not introduced to the Federation until the Picard time-frame. So like you say, why is there no holodeck technology in Kirk's time-frame if they've clearly already seen it.

Braga even said that he was "sick and tired of the holo-deck" after Voyager (makes sense, because he wrote some absolute fucking holo-deck stinkers in Voyager. That entire storyline about that 18th century, or whatever, town, dear God... Btw, did anyone ever want to know how that murder mystery ended? Sorry. Braga didn't feel like finishing it.) And then he goes and puts it right back into Enterprise.

Suddenly and mysteriously??? They captured it in the first episode!! Holy shit dude, are you just making stuff up?

Where do they capture one? They grab one with that grappler thing, but they fly that to the Suliban base and then later transport off, so they don't bring it back? I just read a synopsis of the first two, and there's no mention of them actually keeping it. They use it and leave it.

But let's assume that they do keep it, and I'm remembering it wrong, why is the damn thing never mentioned again until the ONE episode where the plot requires the cloak? There are several episodes where they are lamenting that the Enterprise is stuck at warp... 3 or 5, can't remember which, when if they have a Suliban Cell ship, which goes faster than that, could have solved their problem instantly. There are several episodes where a cloaking device could have really helped. No mention of their captured Suliban cell ship.

The consensus though is that the third season was the worst. They tried to do a season long arc, and I appreciate that they tried it, but it just wasn't very good, mainly, in my opinion, because again, it was born out of time travel.

Heh, I at least thought the Xindi thing was pretty cool, even though they don't use it right. The Xindi attack Earth and basically slice up the planet, but instead of using that as an excuse to say "They destroyed Star Fleet HQ, and that's when they moved to SF", it's just this random-ass attack.


The fourth season was probably the best, The romulan mini arc was really good. The vulcan three parter was pretty badass. The last two parter dealing with anti-alien extremists was really good too.

What I'm surprised you didn't mention was the final episode. The final episode was a big steaming turd, and even the cast called it appalling.

I never watched season 4. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

So yeah, there is lot to groan about in ENT, but there are some pretty badass gems in there too, so just like anything else, you take the good with the bad. Voyager sucked in general, but there is still some good stuff there.

Sure, there are good episodes, but the ratio is just so terrible. Voyager has like 10 really good episodes. Enterprise has maybe 7 or 8. Compare that to TNG, which had like 16 great episodes in season 4 alone. I don't recommend anyone sit through 3 seasons of shite to get to one season with some good stuff in it.

Edit: Just remember another just... fucking egregious Canon shattering event. Pon'Farr. It has been known throughout Star Trek history that ONLY Vulcan males ever suffer from Pon'Farr. In Enterprise? Jolene Blalock gets Pon'Farr, so she can show off her tits.

Fuck Rick Berman AND Brannon Braga with a Suliban cell ship.

That said, Fuck ST: Discovery, and fuck CBS, I'm still going to check it out, but I fully support and condone any and all piracy for ST:D

People were more hyped up for Star Trek Axanar than Discovery. CBS fucked over Axanar (yes, Axanar did some shitty stuff to warrant the fucking over, but still the story should have been allowed to continue unvarnished) CBS was jealous that Axanar was doing Star Trek better than Star Trek was.

Eh, the Axanar thing, I mean, copyright is really pretty simple. You can't just go and make a Star Trek movie and expect to make money off of it. Don't get me wrong, I'd have LOVED to see Axanar, but...

This comment was edited on Sep 23, 2017, 13:56.
 
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36. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 23, 2017, 12:08 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 13:47:
Damn man, that's some shit. Braga was the source of shit in Voyager then too I'm assuming? His name is all over it. Thanks for the long write up, I will probably just skip it then.

ps - Trump owns

Oh God, yes. Braga and Berman were the reason Star Trek went from the #1 sci fi show in the world to a total has been in the space of two shows. Braga gained more and more creative power during Voyager, leading to the absurd reset button episodes (some of which were very good, I won't deny), and then he was the #1 writer / creative guy on Enterprise, and it really fucking showed.

The weird thing is, I don't think he ever really liked Star Trek. From the fact that he was PROUD of never having watched TOS, to him complaining that he hated the way Star Trek characters talked etc, it was weird.

Once he was out of Star Trek, he actually made some very good shows that I quite enjoyed (once I got over my initial "Oh shit a Brannon Braga show!").

Anyways, fuck Rick Berman.
 
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 10:26 VoodooV
 
Yeah, The Orville seems to have been mis-hyped as GalaxyQuest.

It seems the phrase used to describe Orville is now "blue collar Star Trek" The crew of the Orville is not "The best in the fleet" (though they do keep describing Scott Grimes character as the best pilot in the fleet, but he is still much the slacker/underachiever/whatever)

But these are supposedly the average joes of the fleet with a bunch of jokes thrown in.
 
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 23, 2017, 10:12 VoodooV
 

Enterprise definitely had some groan-inducing moments, but Creston is kinda being fake news here or he watched some other show, I don't know

Yeah, apparently the Borg had visited Earth in Archer's time, and then... I dunno, decided to go home again and wait for later?

Uhm, no, they didn't visit earth. They were survivors from the blown-up borg sphere in First Contact, which happens before Ent. Yes, it really pissed me off that they had a borg story in Ent, but still, get your facts straight.

Remember how ships in Warp can't fire phasers?

you're probably right about that one, I don't recall anything specific, but that's the kind of thing only the hard core nerds care about so...

Enterprise has Holodecks

Uhm, no it didn't. They do meet a race that had them. And I guess Daniels had that portable holodeck observatory thingy, but Daniels was from like the 29th century or something. So no, Enterprise didn't have holodecks. Yeah, when they met that race that did holodecks, it did make me go "well gee, it took StarFleet a long time to reverse engineer that technology" but again, please get it right.

One where the crew suddenly and mysteriously has a captured Suliban cell ship

Suddenly and mysteriously??? They captured it in the first episode!! Holy shit dude, are you just making stuff up?

The rest of your rant does have enough truth for me to pass it or at least pass it off as your opinion. Which is fine. I didn't really like the Temporal Cold War either, but I'm also sick of the time travel trope period. Star Trek in general abuses time travel way too much.

The consensus though is that the third season was the worst. They tried to do a season long arc, and I appreciate that they tried it, but it just wasn't very good, mainly, in my opinion, because again, it was born out of time travel.

The fourth season was probably the best, The romulan mini arc was really good. The vulcan three parter was pretty badass. The last two parter dealing with anti-alien extremists was really good too.

What I'm surprised you didn't mention was the final episode. The final episode was a big steaming turd, and even the cast called it appalling.

So yeah, there is lot to groan about in ENT, but there are some pretty badass gems in there too, so just like anything else, you take the good with the bad. Voyager sucked in general, but there is still some good stuff there.

That said, Fuck ST: Discovery, and fuck CBS, I'm still going to check it out, but I fully support and condone any and all piracy for ST:D

People were more hyped up for Star Trek Axanar than Discovery. CBS fucked over Axanar (yes, Axanar did some shitty stuff to warrant the fucking over, but still the story should have been allowed to continue unvarnished) CBS was jealous that Axanar was doing Star Trek better than Star Trek was.

 
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33. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 22, 2017, 23:03 1badmf
 
Verno wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 16:32:
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 16:24:
Wait, I thought The Orville was a comedy/spoof? Am I wrong about that?

At times its very on the nose with the Star Trek tropes but it sort of veers in and out of drama too. Right now I'm not finding the mix especially pleasing, its just sort of OK. It's not irreverent enough to be taken solely as a spoof, its just sort of in this weird middle ground. I think each episode has actually gotten a little bit worse so far too, episode 3 had me reaching for my phone.

so safe to say it's NOT galaxy quest?
 
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32. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 22, 2017, 22:13 Cutter
 
Yeah, I'm liking The Orville so far.  
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31. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 22, 2017, 16:47 Kxmode
 
Verno wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 14:51:
I'm still at the Kes part of the rewatch before they introduced Seven. Janeway is ridiculous, just perfect at dealing with everything while simultaneously tolerating far too much, drives me bananas. The actress does a great job but the character is very poorly written. A lot of wasted time on secondary character developments that end up going nowhere too. It just feels like the writers have been throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. It's worse offense is just how bland and unambitious it is. The Delta quadrant stuff was a huge opportunity but it's the same recycled plot lines and bullshit with even worse tropes.

So far the canon stuff in Voyager isn't wonderful either. One episode they're tractoring everything with the shields up, next one they can't because <reasons>. I can normally ignore this sort of minutiae but they are going back and forth on everything, almost every single episode.

I'm thinking of just ditching this and swapping to Enterprise to see how much worse things could get. At least it would be entertaining, Voyager is just so boring.

Cool! You have long ways to go then. In no particular order here are my favorite Voyager episodes for when you get to them.

"Blink of an Eye" - This episode is fantastic. It is a confluence of time dilation and deity worship, and how one affects the other. It is also Voyager's most science fiction episode.

"Year of Hell" - This two-parter presents the amazing duality between nihilism and faith while demonstrating the consequences of altering history.

"The Thaw" - Probably one of Trek's creepiest episodes. A weird "IT" like man-clown terrorizes the crew to feed on their fears. Guest star Michael McKean gives an excellent scary performance as The Clown.

"Death Wish" - An unusual story about a member of the Q who wants to commit suicide, the morality of his decision, and the impact his decision has on the Continuum who have not known death from one of their own.

"False Profits" - An excellent follow-up and conclusion to the ST: TNG episode "The Price."

"Real Life" - A fun episode about the Doctor trying to create a perfect holodeck family and discovering there's no such thing as the perfect family.

"Scorpion" - This two-parter introduces a new species stronger than the Borg and a threat to the entire galaxy if left unchecked. It forces Janeway into a moral decision to ally with the Borg against a common enemy. "The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend!"

"Living Witness" - An excellent "What If" story and an example of how information can become distorted over the centuries.

"Nothing Human" - A rare episode, and one of my top five, about the morality of using medical information obtained through unethical means. I cannot stress how fantastic it is all the way through. The performances from all the cast are stellar.

"Endgame" - Of all the Trek series endings this one, I think, has the most satisfying conclusion.

"Mortal Coil" - Neelix experiences a loss of faith when his "paradise" after death turns out to not be real. I have my reasons for liking the episode but primarily because I know all the nonsense religions talk about beyond death is a lie. There is nothing past death; that is why it is called "death." Humans cannot comprehend the notion of "death" as being final.

 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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30. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 22, 2017, 16:32 Verno
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 16:24:
Wait, I thought The Orville was a comedy/spoof? Am I wrong about that?

At times its very on the nose with the Star Trek tropes but it sort of veers in and out of drama too. Right now I'm not finding the mix especially pleasing, its just sort of OK. It's not irreverent enough to be taken solely as a spoof, its just sort of in this weird middle ground. I think each episode has actually gotten a little bit worse so far too, episode 3 had me reaching for my phone.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 22, 2017, 16:24 Mr. Tact
 
Wait, I thought The Orville was a comedy/spoof? Am I wrong about that?  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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28. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 22, 2017, 16:18 Verno
 
Hah that would be Seth MacFarlane himself dude. Yeah I agree though, he's too out of place in The Orville for my taste. It's not bad so far but none of the humor has really made me laugh out loud.  
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Sep 22, 2017, 16:05 afka Rossini
 
For those asking about The Orville, it's just OK. After seeing the first three episodes, the overall production strikes me as a bigger budget but slightly less Canadian SyFy offering than Dark Matter (which I liked) or Killjoys (meh). The special effects and makeup are pretty good. The overall story ideas so far have great potential.

Unfortunately the writing and acting are, to me, stilted and hammy. I have a very hard time buying lead playing the captain. He just doesn't have the gravitas of the actors who played Kirk, Picard, Janeway or even the actor who plays Jim Holden in The Expanse. The comic elements are sitcom-safe funny which is to say mostly meh.

I'll probably watch a few more episodes to see if it gets better but it's not going to bother me if I forget.
 
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26. GOP health bill all but dead; McCain again deals the blow Sep 22, 2017, 15:10 RedEye9
 
Brain cancer or no brain cancer, this man is a saint.
"I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal"
 
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25. Re: New AMD Drivers Support Dual Vega GPUs Sep 22, 2017, 14:51 Verno
 
Pigeon wrote on Sep 22, 2017, 14:28:
I felt Voyager got better after the first 2 seasons, seven of nine's appearance and whole on going struggle with the Borg vastly improved the series as a whole. Also Janeway's character got better, and so did the crew as a whole. I think it was more than just the Captain and crew evolving as people, I don't think the writers really knew how to write for them until 3 seasons in.

I'm still at the Kes part of the rewatch before they introduced Seven. Janeway is ridiculous, just perfect at dealing with everything while simultaneously tolerating far too much, drives me bananas. The actress does a great job but the character is very poorly written. A lot of wasted time on secondary character developments that end up going nowhere too. It just feels like the writers have been throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. It's worse offense is just how bland and unambitious it is. The Delta quadrant stuff was a huge opportunity but it's the same recycled plot lines and bullshit with even worse tropes.

So far the canon stuff in Voyager isn't wonderful either. One episode they're tractoring everything with the shields up, next one they can't because <reasons>. I can normally ignore this sort of minutiae but they are going back and forth on everything, almost every single episode.

I'm thinking of just ditching this and swapping to Enterprise to see how much worse things could get. At least it would be entertaining, Voyager is just so boring.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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