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Op Ed

There is no 'heat of the moment' in video games - Polygon.
"PewDiePie’s apology on Tuesday, for using a racist slur in widely viewed live stream over the weekend, rests on this point: It was the heat of the moment, the right time for a go-to insult, no matter how vile. Context, say his defenders, matters, as if we can’t understand what the context was here.

But I can. PewDiePie was playing a video game. He wasn’t in a fistfight or a car crash. Those are heated moments, not that a racial epithet is acceptable in them, either. Video games are something we do ostensibly for enjoyment in comfortable surroundings."

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51. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 16:56 Redmask
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 17, 2017, 13:25:
Well yes, except you haven't noticed that the eternally offended is you. You made a stupid point on a subject you know little about because you disagreed and felt people just had to know. You stomped your feet on the internet.

Offended? Heck naw, takes a lot more than that to get me going on twitter and up in arms. I don't accept your judgements Glasses2

 
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50. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 16:19 Orogogus
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2017, 15:23:
I'm clearly exaggerating to make a point, but the bigger picture is that his money comes from corporations, and this isn't how they want to be portrayed.

The corporations stuck by Elvis and South Park, I don't think they'll abandon Pewdiepie when the casual racism arguments are still going back and forth, especially in a day and age when double digit percentages of voters will support the President of the United States when he says there are fine people among white supremacist groups.

And, to your point, once Hollywood stopped having their protagonists smoke, smoking amongst teens declined. Hmm. Funny that. Almost as if they're the most impressionable group...

Smoking declined among everyone in the US alongside a decades-long campaign to educate people about the dangers of smoking to children, the unborn, casual smokers and people inhaling secondhand smoke, expensive lawsuits against an industry that had been covering up damaging research, legislation to limit access and restrictions on marketing. It's been an adult conversation.

On the other hand I think "Just say no" and abstinence-only are somewhat condescending campaigns aimed squarely at teenagers, with much more mixed results. I feel like this campaign in particular will have trouble getting traction when racism hasn't been settled among the adult population. I don't think decades of feel-good messages of harmony from Hollywood have outweighed parents who look down on people based on race.
 
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49. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 15:23 Beamer
 
Orogogus wrote on Sep 17, 2017, 02:04:
Beamer wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 17:13:
I like how people who don't know who he is have opinions.

"I don't know who this Ronald McDonald guy is, but a casual Google says he's a clown. If a clown says a bad word why care?"

With all your expertise, it seems to me that you're treating teenagers as if they were watching Sesame Street and Dora the Explorer, and applying the same accusations of indecent, immoral material corrupting the youth that have been thrown against D&D, drugs, and dozens of musical genres and TV shows. Playing the "won't someone please think of the children" card seems likely to make any problem worse in the teenage demographic as they push back against olds trying to teach them to look up to proper role models like Captain Kangaroo. Do you think there would be fewer drugs in play if there had been a more concerted effort to demonize and hound Cheech & Chong, their venues and their sponsors, for the sake of the children?

It seems to me that it would be more productive to have adult conversations about casual racism and then hope that those values carry through. Are social mores like these are transmitted vertically from parents and older authority figures, or is it a generational thing and everything was better in your day and it's today's youths that suck?

I'm clearly exaggerating to make a point, but the bigger picture is that his money comes from corporations, and this isn't how they want to be portrayed.

And, to your point, once Hollywood stopped having their protagonists smoke, smoking amongst teens declined. Hmm. Funny that. Almost as if they're the most impressionable group...
 
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48. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 13:25 Quboid
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 17, 2017, 10:05:
Quboid wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 15:43:
Is there anything in between a half-assed apology designed only to avoid consequences, and totally committing oneself to eradicating racism or giving away one's money?

Apparently not for the eternally offended who want a cause to get upset and stomp their feet over. Hey guys lets brigade on the internet and care about this for exactly 4 days!

But won't someone think of the poor children!

Well yes, except you haven't noticed that the eternally offended is you. You made a stupid point on a subject you know little about because you disagreed and felt people just had to know. You stomped your feet on the internet.

Have you ever noticed how everyone you disagree with is always upset or offended? Maybe it's you, dude.
 
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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47. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 10:05 Redmask
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 15:43:
Is there anything in between a half-assed apology designed only to avoid consequences, and totally committing oneself to eradicating racism or giving away one's money?

Apparently not for the eternally offended who want a cause to get upset and stomp their feet over. Hey guys lets brigade on the internet and care about this for exactly 4 days!

But won't someone think of the poor children!
 
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46. Re: Op Ed Sep 17, 2017, 02:04 Orogogus
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 17:13:
I like how people who don't know who he is have opinions.

"I don't know who this Ronald McDonald guy is, but a casual Google says he's a clown. If a clown says a bad word why care?"

With all your expertise, it seems to me that you're treating teenagers as if they were watching Sesame Street and Dora the Explorer, and applying the same accusations of indecent, immoral material corrupting the youth that have been thrown against D&D, drugs, and dozens of musical genres and TV shows. Playing the "won't someone please think of the children" card seems likely to make any problem worse in the teenage demographic as they push back against olds trying to teach them to look up to proper role models like Captain Kangaroo. Do you think there would be fewer drugs in play if there had been a more concerted effort to demonize and hound Cheech & Chong, their venues and their sponsors, for the sake of the children?

It seems to me that it would be more productive to have adult conversations about casual racism and then hope that those values carry through. Are social mores like these are transmitted vertically from parents and older authority figures, or is it a generational thing and everything was better in your day and it's today's youths that suck?
 
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45. Re: Op Ed Sep 16, 2017, 17:13 Beamer
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 15:43:
Redmask wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 13:45:
I have no idea who this person is but a casual Google search reveals that hes some moron on Youtube, not the Pope. He can say whatever he wants and his audience is free to fuck off if they're so angry about it.
And looking further into this he already apologized but I guess its not good enough, he needs to totally commit himself to eradicating racism across the planet or give his money away. What about the children!!! Careful lefties, you're going to pull something reaching that far.

Is there anything in between a half-assed apology designed only to avoid consequences, and totally committing oneself to eradicating racism or giving away one's money?

I like how people who don't know who he is have opinions.

"I don't know who this Ronald McDonald guy is, but a casual Google says he's a clown. If a clown says a bad word why care?"
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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44. Re: Op Ed Sep 16, 2017, 15:43 Quboid
 
Redmask wrote on Sep 16, 2017, 13:45:
I have no idea who this person is but a casual Google search reveals that hes some moron on Youtube, not the Pope. He can say whatever he wants and his audience is free to fuck off if they're so angry about it.
And looking further into this he already apologized but I guess its not good enough, he needs to totally commit himself to eradicating racism across the planet or give his money away. What about the children!!! Careful lefties, you're going to pull something reaching that far.

Is there anything in between a half-assed apology designed only to avoid consequences, and totally committing oneself to eradicating racism or giving away one's money?
 
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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43. Re: Op Ed Sep 16, 2017, 13:45 Redmask
 
I have no idea who this person is but a casual Google search reveals that hes some moron on Youtube, not the Pope. He can say whatever he wants and his audience is free to fuck off if they're so angry about it.
And looking further into this he already apologized but I guess its not good enough, he needs to totally commit himself to eradicating racism across the planet or give his money away. What about the children!!! Careful lefties, you're going to pull something reaching that far.
 
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42. Re: Op Ed Sep 16, 2017, 08:28 JohnQP
 
*Attention white people. Attention white people*

1 You have inferior rights (expressed as fewer gov't bennies, social privileges, race cards, Diversity Pokemon Points, etc), as a race, because special pleading fallacy based on leftist narative and reading of history.
2 You don't have the right to countries of your own, the way non-white and Jewish people do.
3 You don't have the right to take your own side in a fight, the way non-whites and Jewish people do. Non-white or Jewish racial or ethnic politics are fine; white racial or ethnic politics are a NO-NO. Big time NO-NO.
3 You can't experience what non-whites have experienced, but non-whites can imply they have experienced everything you have experienced.
4 Non-white people get to talk as much shit about white people as they like. You will be the adult in the room at all times.
5 Non-white people have no agency, except when doing something praiseworthy.
6 Whites demanding reciprocal treatment from non-whites is racist.
7 For more information on how to stay on the plantation, see your local public or academic institution, or turn on your television or radio.

*This has been a racial update for White People, courtesy of Big Brother. Memorize and destroy this message.*
 
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41. Re: Op Ed Sep 15, 2017, 20:03 Orogogus
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 15, 2017, 19:39:
The guy makes $16M per yer. From advertisers. Who want to reach children. Of course this gets him in trouble. If Captain Kangaroo or Barney or Elmo said this on air, it'd be a similar thing.

I was under the impression his schtick involved a lot of swearing. Wikipedia says that only 11% of his audience is younger than 18, although the accuracy is suspect since you gate yourself out of a bunch of sites if you let them know you're a minor. Still, heavy profanity implies more of a Rick and Morty or South Park audience than Barney and Elmo.
 
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40. Re: Op Ed Sep 15, 2017, 19:39 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Sep 15, 2017, 15:57:
This isn't even news, dude has made racist comments several times in the past. He's super popular and doesn't really need to watch his words. You can't shame him or go after his revenue directly because he reaches a wide audience and is essentially his own company. I think that's what really bothers the twitter mob the most, they're used to shaming people into apologies or getting them fired with sheer force of spam.

He said something dumb and he shouldn't have but he's a known racist piece of shit so uh what do you expect? Don't watch him if you truly care about these things. I sure as hell don't. I don't really care about forcing a fake apology out of him just so he can hang onto a Youtube sponsor or something either.

Do you think any of the people complaining, here or on Twitter, watch him?

No, his audience is primarily children. If you're a company paying for him to reach that audience, this bothers you. Even more, if you're a parent, this bothers you. How do you stop your middle schooler obsessed with PDP from watching him?

The guy makes $16M per yer. From advertisers. Who want to reach children. Of course this gets him in trouble. If Captain Kangaroo or Barney or Elmo said this on air, it'd be a similar thing.
 
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39. Re: Op Ed Sep 15, 2017, 15:57 Verno
 
This isn't even news, dude has made racist comments several times in the past. He's super popular and doesn't really need to watch his words. You can't shame him or go after his revenue directly because he reaches a wide audience and is essentially his own company. I think that's what really bothers the twitter mob the most, they're used to shaming people into apologies or getting them fired with sheer force of spam.

He said something dumb and he shouldn't have but he's a known racist piece of shit so uh what do you expect? Don't watch him if you truly care about these things. I sure as hell don't. I don't really care about forcing a fake apology out of him just so he can hang onto a Youtube sponsor or something either.
 
Playing: Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, SNES Classic
Watching: An Inconvenient Sequel, The Orville, Star Trek Voyager
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38. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 15:31 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 15:01:
Quboid wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 12:25:
Beamer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 11:32:
As Mashiki noted, there are places on the planet where being white is the best way to get yourself killed/raped/robbed/abducted,

Ok, name them, then tell me what they have to do with America, where this discussion is taking place, where most of PDPs fanbase is, and where nearly all of his sponsors are.

That's such a weird argument. How utterly out of your depth do you have to be to think that pointing out minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing disproves the argument that minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing. That pointing out that different races being equally scummy disproves that different races are equal.

Ultimately, though, I don't think either of us were making that argument. It was just an argument about whether a white American can know what life is like as a non-white American.

The argument that there are small pockets of the world in which being a white person is considered a bad thing doesn't really change anything for Americans and their experiences.

True, I misunderstood.
 
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37. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 15:01 Beamer
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 12:25:
Beamer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 11:32:
As Mashiki noted, there are places on the planet where being white is the best way to get yourself killed/raped/robbed/abducted,

Ok, name them, then tell me what they have to do with America, where this discussion is taking place, where most of PDPs fanbase is, and where nearly all of his sponsors are.

That's such a weird argument. How utterly out of your depth do you have to be to think that pointing out minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing disproves the argument that minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing. That pointing out that different races being equally scummy disproves that different races are equal.

Ultimately, though, I don't think either of us were making that argument. It was just an argument about whether a white American can know what life is like as a non-white American.

The argument that there are small pockets of the world in which being a white person is considered a bad thing doesn't really change anything for Americans and their experiences.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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36. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 14:59 Beamer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 12:23:
i see what you did there

I screwed up my quotes, is what I did.

I also failed to mock him for quoting Tool. In 2017.
 
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35. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 12:25 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 11:32:
As Mashiki noted, there are places on the planet where being white is the best way to get yourself killed/raped/robbed/abducted,

Ok, name them, then tell me what they have to do with America, where this discussion is taking place, where most of PDPs fanbase is, and where nearly all of his sponsors are.

That's such a weird argument. How utterly out of your depth do you have to be to think that pointing out minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing disproves the argument that minorities being discriminated against is a bad thing. That pointing out that different races being equally scummy disproves that different races are equal.
 
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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34. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 12:23 RedEye9
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 11:32:
Asmodai wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 10:00:
Talk about your arrogant, holier than thou, virtue signalling trash.

Uh... right back at you?

As Mashiki noted, there are places on the planet where being white is the best way to get yourself killed/raped/robbed/abducted,

Ok, name them, then tell me what they have to do with America, where this discussion is taking place, where most of PDPs fanbase is, and where nearly all of his sponsors are.

Then we'll list out all the places where it happens if you aren't white, and see which list is longer.

where the worst you had to deal with is bad words that hurt your 5 year old sensibilities,

Except the issue with that word is that it isn't just a word, there's an entire history and institutional basis behind it.

I mean, if words are just words, then me calling you racist wouldn't be a big deal, but I'm assuming it would trigger you if I did, and send you on a lengthy rant about SJWs and libtards and... wait, you already are doing that. For the record, I'm not calling you that, but I'd wager someone has, and it didn't go over well, despite being "just a word."


please refrain from weighing in to subjects you have no fucking idea about while the adults who have ventured beyond their mother's skirts are speaking...

Uh... ok? Not sure why you think you've got the mature opinion here when it's "white people die in Antarctica, occasionally, and words are just words!"

I don't give a fuck about PDP, people can crucify him as much as the like over this. What I do care about is that the worth of your, my, anyone's experiences are nothing compared to the colour of the skins we wear in the eyes of certain outrage peddlers around here.

Over 90% of the people here are from the US. Those that aren't are almost entirely from Canada, the UK, and Australia. I'm sure it's been really hard for all the straight white guys here to be straight white guys.

If the first response to an opinion is "Lemme guess, your white", or someone tries to shut down debate by saying that whatever they are thinking is obviously undeniable, the in all likelihood you're the problem, not the cure.

Certain opinions are founded on ignorance. Sorry, trying to understand what life is like for a non-straight, non-white, non-male in America is nearly impossible for a straight white male American. I'm one of those. Took me a very long time, and a lot of, y'know, leaving my mother's skirt (and her basement) and leaving my shelter, to realize that. I've been fortunate enough to have been moved around a ton for work. I lived in one of the poorest inner cities doing criminal law work, and have since lived in rural areas, massive cities, and am currently in one of the top 10 most expensive zip codes. I've seen more of this country than most.

But keep getting your opinions from YouTube. I'm sure there are plenty of Sargon videos in your queue, too.


I'll leave this as food for thought if people could take a break, as Tool so eloquently put it, from putting their "foot in mouth and head up ass".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7fh5J_mo5E

That's a great start at fixing race problems, and Daryl Davis is a person I deeply admire. Watch the movie sometime, you might learn something.
i see what you did there
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 11:32 Beamer
 
Asmodai wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 10:00:
Talk about your arrogant, holier than thou, virtue signalling trash.

Uh... right back at you?

As Mashiki noted, there are places on the planet where being white is the best way to get yourself killed/raped/robbed/abducted,

Ok, name them, then tell me what they have to do with America, where this discussion is taking place, where most of PDPs fanbase is, and where nearly all of his sponsors are.

Then we'll list out all the places where it happens if you aren't white, and see which list is longer.

where the worst you had to deal with is bad words that hurt your 5 year old sensibilities,

Except the issue with that word is that it isn't just a word, there's an entire history and institutional basis behind it.

I mean, if words are just words, then me calling you racist wouldn't be a big deal, but I'm assuming it would trigger you if I did, and send you on a lengthy rant about SJWs and libtards and... wait, you already are doing that. For the record, I'm not calling you that, but I'd wager someone has, and it didn't go over well, despite being "just a word."


please refrain from weighing in to subjects you have no fucking idea about while the adults who have ventured beyond their mother's skirts are speaking...

Uh... ok? Not sure why you think you've got the mature opinion here when it's "white people die in Antarctica, occasionally, and words are just words!"

I don't give a fuck about PDP, people can crucify him as much as the like over this. What I do care about is that the worth of your, my, anyone's experiences are nothing compared to the colour of the skins we wear in the eyes of certain outrage peddlers around here.

Over 90% of the people here are from the US. Those that aren't are almost entirely from Canada, the UK, and Australia. I'm sure it's been really hard for all the straight white guys here to be straight white guys.

If the first response to an opinion is "Lemme guess, your white", or someone tries to shut down debate by saying that whatever they are thinking is obviously undeniable, the in all likelihood you're the problem, not the cure.

Certain opinions are founded on ignorance. Sorry, trying to understand what life is like for a non-straight, non-white, non-male in America is nearly impossible for a straight white male American. I'm one of those. Took me a very long time, and a lot of, y'know, leaving my mother's skirt (and her basement) and leaving my shelter, to realize that. I've been fortunate enough to have been moved around a ton for work. I lived in one of the poorest inner cities doing criminal law work, and have since lived in rural areas, massive cities, and am currently in one of the top 10 most expensive zip codes. I've seen more of this country than most.

But keep getting your opinions from YouTube. I'm sure there are plenty of Sargon videos in your queue, too.

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2017, 14:59.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
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32. Re: Op Ed Sep 14, 2017, 10:04 Slashman
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 14, 2017, 03:15:
So much whitesplaining going on here. I wonder what an actual black person thinks. Slashman, you around? Or just avoiding this craziness altogether?

I'm just now reading through it.

Let me just say this:

You jump into an online shooter and there is a kid using racial slurs and another shouting back at him with homophobic slurs and no one stops to say: "Not fucking cool. Tone that shit down." So now that's the norm and no big deal, right? There probably weren't any black or gay people on the server so why fret about what isn't affecting you?

An internet celebrity immerses himself in a game and 'slips up', saying some racial shit in the 'heat of the moment'. That makes the news. That suddenly means someone gets sponsorship pulled and bad press. Journalists have something to write about.

We collectively keep taking shit that shouldn't stand and pushing it back across the line into "acceptable" territory. We do this by not saying "not fucking cool" when some brat online thinks they're being edgy and hardcore but is just being a total asshole. We do it whenever we subconsciously dismiss the vitriol and bile we hear because it doesn't apply to "us" and whatever our particular skin color, sexuality or religion is.

So yeah, until we all stop and realize that we helped create Pewdiepie just like we helped create the obnoxious morons on Xbox Live and whatever other online arena they proliferate in, we're going to keep having the same arguments and discussions about "casual racism" and "casual sexism" and how they're so harmless because they're just words and why don't people stop overreacting.

 
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