Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute "Silly"

An Instagram post from Tim Willits responds to a recent controversy that sprang from his recollection of his contribution to the design of the original QUAKE. At QuakeCon, Tim told PCGamesN that he designed the QUAKE shareware and pioneered the concept of multiplayer-only maps. Former id designers John Romero and American McGee disagreed with this, and former id technical director John Carmack likewise did not recall Tim suggesting the multiplayer-only map concept. We missed it at the time, but designer on 1994's Rise of the Triad (which included dedicated multiplayer maps) Tom Hall also chimed in with his disapproval. Tim's post (spotted by addressee Shacknews, thanks nin) says "I usually ignore silly controversies," and arguably ignores aspects of this one with a map screenshot and his side of the story:
timwillits: I usually ignore silly controversies, but this one I will respond to. Here is a video of a map call tim14.bsp from 1996 (running on a NextStep VM, thanks to the programmers here at id Software). This is a map “fragment” (I have a directory full of them), if you know Quake 1 DM maps, you will be able to recognize things in it, this is not just a sketch. I stand by what I said and I'm not wasting my time on this anymore. Now I am getting back to working on the newest Quake game. @shacknews

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28 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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28.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 6, 2017, 04:29
Kxmode
 
28.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 6, 2017, 04:29
Sep 6, 2017, 04:29
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 20:54:
BobBob wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 19:08:
In case anyone missed it: Carmack has left the building.

Is that a spoiler?

I think it's a cliffhanger!
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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27.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 20:54
27.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 20:54
Sep 5, 2017, 20:54
 
BobBob wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 19:08:
In case anyone missed it: Carmack has left the building.

Is that a spoiler?
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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26.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 19:08
26.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 19:08
Sep 5, 2017, 19:08
 
In case anyone missed it: Carmack has left the building.
Don't like my post? Submit a complaint
25.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 19:06
25.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 19:06
Sep 5, 2017, 19:06
 

I wonder how he'll take the friendly constructive criticism that his new Quake game SUCKS ASS!

That is really easy to say if you have no clue what you are talking about.
The new quake is great.
24.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 18:57
24.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 18:57
Sep 5, 2017, 18:57
 
a

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 2019, 01:07.
23.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 18:38
23.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 18:38
Sep 5, 2017, 18:38
 
Hoop wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 18:23:
nhil wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 12:02:
P.S. after two decades of reading, I've finally made an account... to comment on a story about something that happened two decades ago, I think I'll dine on the irony tonight...

You don't understand this whole drama was created by Blue & the id software former & existing employees to get you to finally sign up to this site after 20 years of lurking.
All of these guys Tim, John Romero, John Carmack, American Mc sleeze & Blue are all on a skype conference call doing virtual high fives & knocking back Harvey wallbangers.
I have it on good authority that once you sign up you can never leave.
Blue wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 16:42:
I won't confirm or deny the rumor that I've been known to carry a retractable self-defense baton, but I like the sound of the pepper spray better, as you can make more liberal use of something less likely to cause permanent injuries.
blue means business
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Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
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22.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 18:23
22.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 18:23
Sep 5, 2017, 18:23
 
nhil wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 12:02:
P.S. after two decades of reading, I've finally made an account... to comment on a story about something that happened two decades ago, I think I'll dine on the irony tonight...

You don't understand this whole drama was created by Blue & the id software former & existing employees to get you to finally sign up to this site after 20 years of lurking.
All of these guys Tim, John Romero, John Carmack, American Mc sleeze & Blue are all on a skype conference call doing virtual high fives & knocking back Harvey wallbangers.
Um .. Behind you...
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21.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 17:48
21.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 17:48
Sep 5, 2017, 17:48
 
nhil wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 12:02:
I'll ignore the implicit assumption that MP was something that only Quake had. But I was making MP-only maps for Doom before it was released, not to mention the many Doom based MP services for non-local play (that were included in later version setups).


Exactly... users were making multiplayer Doom maps from probably late 1993? or early 1994, and on through Doom 2. Rise of the Triad in 1994 had multiplayer only maps also as well, as Romero and Tom Hall mentioned.

Not sure why Willits got into this shit when it's easy to see prior art, retail or modded.
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20.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 17:35
Kxmode
 
20.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 17:35
Sep 5, 2017, 17:35
 Kxmode
 
Here is a video of a map call tim14.bsp from 1996 (running on a NextStep VM, thanks to the programmers here at id Software).

I wonder if ZeniMax knows he spent time and money on this?
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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19.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 17:06
19.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 17:06
Sep 5, 2017, 17:06
 
I like how he used this as an opportunity to say out loud (for his Boss to hear) that he's not a slacker. "Now I am getting back to working on the newest Quake game."
18.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 15:51
18.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 15:51
Sep 5, 2017, 15:51
 
I wonder how he'll take the friendly constructive criticism that his new Quake game SUCKS ASS!
Avatar 6174
17.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 15:48
17.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 15:48
Sep 5, 2017, 15:48
 
Nhil--

Firstly, welcome, and secondly, well said.

Us grey-haired gamers have long fuses, but damn, this one took the cake. Even though JohnC, Tokay and Romero are out of the biz now, they still deserve a bit more respect than that.

The only way to solve this is a good old-fashioned man-beating on DM3 (ah, the memories).

^D^

PS: I feel old as hell, as I still remember the .plan update announcing Willit's hiring.
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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16.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 15:38
16.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 15:38
Sep 5, 2017, 15:38
 
sigh.

And thus we find why id is now a ZeniMax company...:(

^D^
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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15.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 15:19
15.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 15:19
Sep 5, 2017, 15:19
 
It's a shame...I seem to remember Willits made some of my favorite Quake maps.
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14.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 13:39
14.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 13:39
Sep 5, 2017, 13:39
 
Fucking hell this guy is a dipshit.

EVERYONE from id software has stated that Quake was just random maps thrown together. They weren't designed for multiplayer, it's just what people made and they tacked on a story.

Doom and Quake were fucking AMAZING back in the day. But they have been taken out to pasture and left to graze.
Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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13.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 13:27
13.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 13:27
Sep 5, 2017, 13:27
 
ldonyo wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 11:33:
Is he friends with the guy that thinks he invented email?
You mean Al Gore, snicker
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
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12.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 13:20
12.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 13:20
Sep 5, 2017, 13:20
 
This is the dumbest notpology ever , Romero an co didnt dispute that map fragments exists, even I have folders full of those , and im a craptastic level designer! . The dispute is that these fragments gave Willits the idea of dedicated deathmatchmaps, that HE invented, acccording to himself, in Quake ! That is the silly thing here , which was obvious to anyone who was alive at the time , Deathmatch was a well-developed concept pre quake , and dedicated dm maps were basically expected by the time Quake was made.
11.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 12:56
11.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 12:56
Sep 5, 2017, 12:56
 
nhil wrote on Sep 5, 2017, 12:02:
Frankly, I'd believe it better if he proposed that Q3 was MP-only, something I never understood, but it's what it was...

P.S. after two decades of reading, I've finally made an account... to comment on a story about something that happened two decades ago, I think I'll dine on the irony tonight...

Welcome!!

I sent an e-mail to Carmack right after Quake 2 released that I wished for a multiplayer focused Quake game again. I expressed how a thousand hours of gaming is better than a relatively short single player campaign.

I have no idea if that feedback influenced their decision for Q3. Quake 2 multiplayer was successful but for dedicated netQuake1 players, Q2 MP didn't compare. Not even close. It was so janky and rubberbandy, etc... It felt sterile the sounds were too techy for me. The Q2 railgun was great but no, Q1 (especially CTF) was so much more fun. In retrospect Q1 MP was very arcadey compared to modern FPS's in how it played so fast and there was so much giblets and blood flying everywhere. lol @ quads and rockets flying everywhere. Oh the sounds of Q1 MP are epic.

Perpetual debt is slavery.
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10.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 12:43
Kxmode
 
10.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 12:43
Sep 5, 2017, 12:43
 Kxmode
 

Sensing a strong Derek Smart vibe from his response.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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9.
 
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute
Sep 5, 2017, 12:09
9.
Re: Tim Willits Calls QUAKE Design Dispute Sep 5, 2017, 12:09
Sep 5, 2017, 12:09
 
Nin! Nin! Nin!

If you say his name three times he'll show up in the comments.

Or was that Derek Smart...
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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