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Sunday Safety Dance

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7. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 22, 2017, 09:06 Beamer
 
He used bunk science and hardly cited anything worthwhile. Which makes your post both ironic and hypocritical.

I mean, in general, white guys whine about "racism" because they refuse to believe their lives could be worse. They somehow think being born a minority is an advantage, because of your first post.
 
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6. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 22, 2017, 02:57 shiho
 
"History teaches us that [...] people love to believe they are intrinsically better, and somebody else is intrinsically worse, regardless of whatever else is going on in their lives."

Finally you're beginning to understand the core of political correctness . It has become a dangerous religious cult of virtue-signaling due to its appeal to vanity, and the young are most susceptible to it.

Thus, vapid cries of "racism" have replaced the middle-ages cries of "heretic", before someone got burned at the stake.

This is how the Google engineer got fired - their religious dogma went against the science, actual evidence-supported, solid science that he used in his essay.

This country is now in full 1984 mode. You're just not on the side you think you are.
 
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5. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 21, 2017, 22:47 Nofactor97
 
I am willing to bet it has been this crazy for decades. The biggest difference is the internet allowed crazies to band together, emboldened because they are not alone, but still a big minority.

You right, there is no perfect answer to this. It is very muddled. My answer is based on my strong belief in freedom of speech, but not free from societal repercussions, which is another difficult subject.

My problem with Google making the decision though is they suddenly become the control for thought. Nazis ideology is bad, but is something similar to Black Panther ok? Do their decisions continue to shape available information by blocking Black Lives matter or Blue Lives Matter content? All made more complex because they are a company and want money, and sell search indexing. So dirty complicated.




MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Aug 21, 2017, 11:36:
Nofactor97 wrote on Aug 21, 2017, 08:37:
Slippery slope when companies are allowed to deny service based on your viewpoint.

Some examples that have happened lately.

1. Not making wedding cakes for homosexual marriages
2. Charging extra service charge to manicure overweight customers, because somehow their toenails are bigger?
3. Club not allowing officers and military in because it would upset it's clientele

Not a lot off the top of my head admittedly, but we are seeing some businesses discriminate again.


I know, that's the inherent danger with this sort of thinking. I don't have a perfect answer, but I feel as though an easy line can be drawn at preventing people from spouting Nazi crap without consequences. Praising genocide might be past what a modern society should allow as free speech? Calling for the (violent, but carefully worded) overthrow of our government and the killing or forcible removal of large segments of the population might be past what a modern society should allow as free speech?

As it is now, they are allowing businesses such as bakeries to discriminate against homosexuals, yet somehow Google has to host Nazis? How the fuck does that make sense?

If society as a whole had no restrictions, maybe I could see your slippery slope argument being more valid. As it is now, the slope is some gravity defying alternate reality where it's okay to deny service to gays, but people cry foul when the Daily Stormer has to find a new hosting service. I'd think I'm going crazy but it's been this bad for like 6 months.

 
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4. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 21, 2017, 11:36 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
Nofactor97 wrote on Aug 21, 2017, 08:37:
Slippery slope when companies are allowed to deny service based on your viewpoint.

Some examples that have happened lately.

1. Not making wedding cakes for homosexual marriages
2. Charging extra service charge to manicure overweight customers, because somehow their toenails are bigger?
3. Club not allowing officers and military in because it would upset it's clientele

Not a lot off the top of my head admittedly, but we are seeing some businesses discriminate again.


I know, that's the inherent danger with this sort of thinking. I don't have a perfect answer, but I feel as though an easy line can be drawn at preventing people from spouting Nazi crap without consequences. Praising genocide might be past what a modern society should allow as free speech? Calling for the (violent, but carefully worded) overthrow of our government and the killing or forcible removal of large segments of the population might be past what a modern society should allow as free speech?

As it is now, they are allowing businesses such as bakeries to discriminate against homosexuals, yet somehow Google has to host Nazis? How the fuck does that make sense?

If society as a whole had no restrictions, maybe I could see your slippery slope argument being more valid. As it is now, the slope is some gravity defying alternate reality where it's okay to deny service to gays, but people cry foul when the Daily Stormer has to find a new hosting service. I'd think I'm going crazy but it's been this bad for like 6 months.

 
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3. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 21, 2017, 08:37 Nofactor97
 
Slippery slope when companies are allowed to deny service based on your viewpoint.

Some examples that have happened lately.

1. Not making wedding cakes for homosexual marriages
2. Charging extra service charge to manicure overweight customers, because somehow their toenails are bigger?
3. Club not allowing officers and military in because it would upset it's clientele

Not a lot off the top of my head admittedly, but we are seeing some businesses discriminate again.

 
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2. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 20, 2017, 17:00 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 20, 2017, 15:26:
Google's stance on neo-Nazis 'dangerous', says EFF.

I'm torn a bit here. On the one hand, I feel this stuff should be out in the open. Transparency is the best disinfectant. Also I'm a bit of a free speech absolutist.

On the other hand, I get that from a business perspective, hosting Nazis is bad for your corporate reputation and bottom line, as well as giving voice to abhorrent views.

It's a conundrum.

Well, no.

Arguably you should be labeled a criminal and probably insane the second you start waving around Nazi flags. Preferably before you start trying to mass murder people. Inciting violence is illegal. Google is massive, but they still aren't the government. There is no freedom of speech issue here.

When I was younger I used to think everybody should be able to say whatever they want, at any time. Nowadays, I see how these sort of hate-preachers are able to sway others and have their ideas spread like a virus. (religion is much the same.) I'd much rather they not be allowed to speak or transmit information online at all, and be arrested if they attempt to. The problem then becomes who decides what is allowable speech, obviously. That should be heavily debated in most instances, EXCEPT FOR THE FUCKING NAZIS.

How many world wars is it going to take for people to NOT let Nazis start gathering support in a country? History teaches us that those sorts of racist arguments, while clearly flawed, easily generate support, because people love to believe they are intrinsically better, and somebody else is intrinsically worse, regardless of whatever else is going on in their lives. It has happened again and again in human history. Education can counteract it, but it's hard to do when you have racists openly marching down the street, with a million television cameras on them, armed in broad daylight while the police do nothing. Depressed, angry people will always flock to even halfway charismatic speakers spewing nonsense if it makes the audience think they have a greater purpose and place in some group.

Speech has consequences, free speech has limits. Speech on some corporate website/forum/platform can be cut off at any time.

It's unlikely that the US government will ever outright ban groups like the KKK or Neo Nazis, but there should be no fucking question that Google or any other private/corporate provider should be able to deny service at the drop of a hat.
 
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1. Re: Sunday Safety Dance Aug 20, 2017, 15:26 jdreyer
 
Google's stance on neo-Nazis 'dangerous', says EFF.

I'm torn a bit here. On the one hand, I feel this stuff should be out in the open. Transparency is the best disinfectant. Also I'm a bit of a free speech absolutist.

On the other hand, I get that from a business perspective, hosting Nazis is bad for your corporate reputation and bottom line, as well as giving voice to abhorrent views.

It's a conundrum.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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