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Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1

GeekWire has details on an AI demonstration at The International, where a bot competed in a one-on-one demonstration versus a live pro player at the Dota 2 tournament. OpenAI project, a project co-founded by SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk, brought an OpenAI-developed program to play versus Danylo “Dendi” Ishutin, one of the MOBA's top players. This video shows off the match, which did not go well for Dendi, and GeekWire summarizes the action, saying, "Ishutin was beaten badly in the first match, forfeited a second match, and refused to play a third." The OpenAI blog has more details:

Today we played Dendi on mainstage at The International, winning a best-of-three match. Over the past week, our bot was undefeated against many top professionals including SumaiL (top 1v1 player in the world) and Arteezy (top overall player in the world).

Dota 1v1 is a complex game with hidden information. Agents must learn to plan, attack, trick, and deceive their opponents. The correlation between player skill and actions-per-minute is not strong, and in fact, our AI’s actions-per-minute are comparable to that of an average human player.

Success in Dota requires players to develop intuitions about their opponents and plan accordingly. In the above video you can see that our bot has learned — entirely via self-play — to predict where other players will move, to improvise in response to unfamiliar situations, and how to influence the other player’s allied units to help it succeed.

The full game of Dota is played by two teams of five. Each player chooses from a hundred heroes and hundreds of items. Our next step is to create a team of Dota 2 bots which can compete and collaborate with the top human teams. If you’d like to work on the next phase of the project, consider joining OpenAI.

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18 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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18. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 14, 2017, 23:58 Mr. Tact
 
For this to impress me, I'm going to need to know a lot more about what the program is doing and what information it has access to. Even just having perfect aim for attacks would give a human player a huge edge.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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17. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 13, 2017, 13:55 RedEye9
 

eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 18:20:
[_] You watched the match and explanation
Obviously not, nor did he rtfa.

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Aug 13, 2017, 01:06:
Something I saw today that reminds me of this quote is a tournament game of Street Fighter IV some years back where a very unskilled Ryu player wins against a much better "pro" player, just by mashing light punch over and over when close and using repeat wake-up dragon punches and other cheese tactics. The "pro" dude was so salty and his opponent just wearing a shit-eating grin, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeGPUtxKjXo
Looks like my play style, hilarious.
 
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https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/andy-borowitz
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16. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 13, 2017, 11:32 NewMaxx
 
Alamar wrote on Aug 13, 2017, 08:15:
And this is how button mashing kids beat me in the arcade at Street Fighter II : )

I was the regional champ for SSB back in the day and I remember playing some random person "for fun" and I lost...I mean, yes, I wasn't playing seriously and a bit wasted, but still. I demanded a rematch and utterly destroyed him but the point was I didn't really anticipate his style and got lazy since I expected him to play "by the rules."

As far as this news goes, well, people play PVE and PVP (against AI and other players) differently. In Armored Warfare (World of Tanks style game) we had top PVP players making fun of PVE players and yet when a few tried it out they got completely destroyed since it's a very different skillset. A large part of the problem - and I've said this for ages about elitism in gaming - is that people play to the meta. It causes problems in every PVP-oriented game I've ever played because you inevitably have a minority of the population determining balance and game-play for the majority. It doesn't make for better players, it makes for games catering to those with the most affinity for the base mechanics who then file it into their groove.

Sure, "confusing" the AI could become its own meta, but I think the larger issue is that top players are treated like the Tiger Woods and Usain Bolt of their genre when it's more like the Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb. A study of baseball statistics shows just how narrow the range of skill became over time but simultaneously the rules became less mutable, and I think that's something to take away from this: constant f'ing (pardon my language) with game mechanics reveals a lack of maturity in the esports industry and AI can easily exploit that.
 
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15. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 13, 2017, 09:09 WaltC
 
The AI cheats, of course. Doesn't play like a human has to play.  
Avatar 16008
 
It is well known that I do not make mistakes--so if you should happen across a mistake in anything I have written, be assured that I did not write it!
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14. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 13, 2017, 08:15 Alamar
 
NewMaxx wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 21:15:
"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

-Mark Twain

And this is how button mashing kids beat me in the arcade at Street Fighter II : )
 
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13. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 13, 2017, 01:15 eRe4s3r
 
DarkCntry wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 21:17:
The only thing that the AI can do that we cannot is calculate near-endless possibilities without drawing attention from something else. It is a single-minded opponent with laser focus basically.

A person has to gauge between creep control, item control, and physical placement, which can be difficult to do all at once...especially when we have to physically move aspects of our bodies (eyes, hands, fingers, etc) on top of it.

AI simply has to calculate and execute with no physical requirements behind it other than the limits of the hardware that it is working on.

Yeah, but to do that it has to understand how to play DOTA 2, which is pretty damn impressive. It manages mobs, it micros attacks, it pulls and pushes, this AI is better than a human player at all those things, not just at reaction. If you gave this AI latency on par with human reaction time it'd be equally matched with the *best*, which is absolutely mind-blowing.

And the mechanics to learn how to play DOTA 2 can be applied to self-driving cars, if the neural network were connected to 50 million cars to fine tune for each special case the end result would be absolutely staggering driving abilities. (Which is why this stuff comes from Elon Musk's financed AI development I guess)
 
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12. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 13, 2017, 01:06 Mordecai Walfish
 
NewMaxx wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 21:15:
"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

-Mark Twain

Something I saw today that reminds me of this quote is a tournament game of Street Fighter IV some years back where a very unskilled Ryu player wins against a much better "pro" player, just by mashing light punch over and over when close and using repeat wake-up dragon punches and other cheese tactics. The "pro" dude was so salty and his opponent just wearing a shit-eating grin, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeGPUtxKjXo
 
Avatar 56178
 
         
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11. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 22:08 Sepharo
 
NewMaxx wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 21:15:
"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

-Mark Twain

Mark Twain was pretty prescient about MP FPS in this regard as well.
 
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10. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 21:17 DarkCntry
 
The only thing that the AI can do that we cannot is calculate near-endless possibilities without drawing attention from something else. It is a single-minded opponent with laser focus basically.

A person has to gauge between creep control, item control, and physical placement, which can be difficult to do all at once...especially when we have to physically move aspects of our bodies (eyes, hands, fingers, etc) on top of it.

AI simply has to calculate and execute with no physical requirements behind it other than the limits of the hardware that it is working on.
 
Avatar 24330
 
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9. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 21:15 NewMaxx
 
"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot."

-Mark Twain
 
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8. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 18:20 eRe4s3r
 
Acleacius wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 14:32:
Riiiiight, bots know exactly where you are at all times, don't have to search. Nor are they affected or effected by things like fog or bloom. They have autoaim and can see across the map without any restrictions. Duh?

[_] You watched the match and explanation
 
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7. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 15:09 Rhett
 
I'm pretty sure if it had any of those benefits it wouldn't have been touted so highly. Dumber AI needs those things so they can cheap out on the AI's scripting and tweak numbers to make it seem decent.

This AI probably last-hits, pokes, harasses, aims perfectly/near perfectly with abilities... all of those would be a nightmare at once. I imagine the non-AI player could barely even get a hit in.
 
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6. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 14:32 Acleacius
 
Riiiiight, bots know exactly where you are at all times, don't have to search. Nor are they affected or effected by things like fog or bloom. They have autoaim and can see across the map without any restrictions. Duh?  
Stop. Lose all scripted responses. Improvisation only.
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5. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 13:58 Genesys
 
jacobvandy wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 13:12:
If it's "AI" and not just a bot that's been programmed to play, how can they have any control over or make any guarantees about the APM? I mean, if it's actually thinking and acting for itself, why wouldn't it do as much as it could as fast as it possibly could, like a competitive player does? It's not remotely fair on that basis alone.
What they're saying is that APM is not a measure of skill. Their bot's APM was only "average", but its actions were far more effective than an average human player's. There are some good responses in this Reddit thread asking about APM.

 
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4. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 13:45 Scottish Martial Arts
 
jacobvandy wrote on Aug 12, 2017, 13:12:
If it's "AI" and not just a bot that's been programmed to play, how can they have any control over or make any guarantees about the APM?

I'm presuming they're using some sort of Reinforcement Learning model, and in such a model they wouldn't be able to directly control the exact policy, i.e. game playing action, adopted by the agent, but they would be able to observe that their model, after training, converges on policies with APMs in a certain range. Indeed they seem to suggest as much when they say in release that "The correlation between player skill and actions-per-minute is not strong, and in fact, our AI’s actions-per-minute are comparable to that of an average human player." In other words, it's likely that past a certain point, increasing APM doesn't further minimize the cost function/maximize the benefit function (depending on the model) that pertains to playing the game well, and accordingly the model "learns" to not take more actions than is typical of an average player.

 
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3. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 13:12 jacobvandy
 
If it's "AI" and not just a bot that's been programmed to play, how can they have any control over or make any guarantees about the APM? I mean, if it's actually thinking and acting for itself, why wouldn't it do as much as it could as fast as it possibly could, like a competitive player does? It's not remotely fair on that basis alone.  
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2. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 13:01 yonder
 
"Ishutin was beaten badly in the first match, forfeited a second match, and refused to play a third"

I can't help but think that was intentionally inflammatory. If you study chess, virtually all losses are "bad" and "resign" is a very common ending for a game. My guess, from not reading at all, is that they agreed to "best of 3", the AI actually won the first game, they played part of Game 2 until the human acknowledged that the obvious was going to happen, and everyone agreed that Game 3 was unnecessary.
 
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1. Re: Computers Are Good at Computer Games: AI Wins Dota 2 1-on-1 Aug 12, 2017, 12:05 RedEye9
 

It's just a bot, whoops.
 
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