Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Evening Safety Dance

View
17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >

17. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 20:19 Mr. Tact
 
Well, you are right about one thing Simon -- we haven't been shown the evidence. However, either the intelligence community has seen some or they are all coordinating a disinformation campaign against the US population to make us think they have. Could that be the case? Sure. How likely is that? Difficult to say.

Also, I don't think any responsible person has indicated the Russians materially altered our election. Only that they attempted to do so, and were attempting to influence it. Based on the gullibility shown by the US voting population recently, it wouldn't be surprising such an effort would be successful.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 19:06 jdreyer
 
Bard wrote on Jun 14, 2017, 18:59:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 14, 2017, 02:33:
Russia struck at election systems and data of 39 US states.

And by "Russia" he means "patriotic hackers who happen to live in Russia and are not associated with the government. At all"

Hmm.. it strikes me that you're not familiar with any of the Snowden releases, the other information gleaned from hacking of various entities or cybersecurity in general.

..and definitely not of the history of US intelligence services.

But I'll give you that you're pretty much on the pulse of general public attitude.

I'm just sarcastically parroting the situation as Putin explained it.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 18:59 Bard
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 14, 2017, 02:33:
Russia struck at election systems and data of 39 US states.

And by "Russia" he means "patriotic hackers who happen to live in Russia and are not associated with the government. At all"

Hmm.. it strikes me that you're not familiar with any of the Snowden releases, the other information gleaned from hacking of various entities or cybersecurity in general.

..and definitely not of the history of US intelligence services.

But I'll give you that you're pretty much on the pulse of general public attitude.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 15:03 jdreyer
 
Orogogus wrote on Jun 14, 2017, 13:11:

It's just incredible that someone could look at what we know and definitively conclude, there's nothing there, Democrats are just whining. If you flipped it around to the Obama administration and you had all these flags, the same people wouldn't find it highly suggestive of Russian interference? Didn't they already claim undue Russian influence with Hillary on far less evidence than this?

Hillary ran a pedo ring from the basement of a pizza joint, I'm just sayin'
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 15:02 jdreyer
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 14, 2017, 09:35:

People distrust the media, distrust scientists, distrust doctors(anti vaxxers, etc.), distrust any trained expert and believe shit they read on Facebook or some conspiracy site.

Donald Trump is just a bump in the road in comparison. This sort of systemic distrust of experts is something I am not sure the human race will even survive, let alone overcome within the next 20 years.


Global warming scientists are just in it for the money, amirite?
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 13:11 Orogogus
 
People don't think there's a ton of circumstantial evidence aside from the intelligence agencies' say-so?

Michael Flynn requested immunity, and his attorneys said he'll refuse to comply with a Congressional subpoena from the investigation committee, and will plead his Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination.

Trump asked Comey to drop the probe.

Sessions, Manafort, Kushner, Flynn meeting with Russian officials during the campaign, some of them forgetting to report the fact. His advisers are stacked with people paid by Russian companies, who have been given Russian awards, and who have been invited to give talks to Russian groups.

Putin has flat out said that there might have been Russian hacking, but claims it wasn't organized by his government.

Out of the blue, when asked about Putin, Trump basically said that America's not all that great.

Trump lied about releasing his tax returns -- there was no audit, an audit wouldn't have prevented him from releasing them, and he never had any intention of releasing them after the election despite saying he would.

It's just incredible that someone could look at what we know and definitively conclude, there's nothing there, Democrats are just whining. If you flipped it around to the Obama administration and you had all these flags, the same people wouldn't find it highly suggestive of Russian interference? Didn't they already claim undue Russian influence with Hillary on far less evidence than this?
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 09:35 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
This thread illustrates the true damaging effect from any Russian(or other agency) misinformation campaign: people continue to assume experts are lying because whatever standard of proof they expect to see has not been released to the public, or they heard something else on some social media page.

Secret/Top Secret information, will never be released to the public, aside from leaks obviously. There is already more evidence for the Russian tampering than there ever was for WMDs in Iraq, as VaranDragon brings up(remember the hearings about the LACK of evidence back then, too late of course, but they did occur). Yet people ignore it because somebody lied to them 15 years ago.

People distrust the media, distrust scientists, distrust doctors(anti vaxxers, etc.), distrust any trained expert and believe shit they read on Facebook or some conspiracy site.

Donald Trump is just a bump in the road in comparison. This sort of systemic distrust of experts is something I am not sure the human race will even survive, let alone overcome within the next 20 years.

 
Avatar 54863
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 07:31 VaranDragon
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 13, 2017, 22:20:
The United States and our democratic institutions were attacked by a hostile foreign power

There is no evidence of that. There is about as much evidence of that as there was for WMD in Iraq. This is why Donald Trump is your president. You are, not you personally but you as a people, willing to believe in pretty much anything that fits in your preconcieved view of the world. If The Donald says its true, it must be true right? This is how he won the election. It's terrible isn't it?

Where is the evidence for election tampering? Bush didn't need any to go into Iraq. Donald doesn't obviously need any to claim whatever the fuck he wants. It seems like you don't need any either.

If an agency like the CIA or NSA claims there is evidence, but then fails to present any. Are you supposed to believe them without question? Is this how supposedly the most democratic nation in the world conducts its affairs of state? The US has lost all credibility in the eyes of the western world, at least during Regan's time there was an ideology to fall back on. Now there is nothing. Power for power's sake. Democrats and Republicans serve one master: The Alllmighty dollar. Money is free speech. etc. etc.

This comment was edited on Jun 14, 2017, 07:49.
 
Avatar 58327
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 02:33 jdreyer
 
Russia struck at election systems and data of 39 US states.

And by "Russia" he means "patriotic hackers who happen to live in Russia and are not associated with the government. At all"
 
Avatar 22024
 
The only thing that flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 01:42 NKD
 
In our lives we routinely give people who we believe to be more knowledgeable than us the benefit of the doubt. I trust my doctor knows what the fuck she is doing. I trust that the people who built my car didn't forget a bunch of shit. I do this knowing full well that my trust could be misplaced.

If the intelligence community say they have evidence, and I don't see any strong pushback to contradict it, I'm inclined to believe them.

Especially since evidence has been leaked. Evidence which contained micro dots that led directly to the printer that printed the documents, which in turn led to the suspect.

Since the intelligence community routinely keeps evidence to itself for obvious reasons, I don't see the lack of presented evidence as a problem. It seems far more likely that they have evidence than that they don't. There are no guarantees. Even if evidence is provided, your logic would dictate that since we cant verify the evidence ourselves, that we must assume it is fabricated evidence.

So I will continue to operate under the assumption that it is true, and discuss matters in that context.
 
Avatar 43041
 
"Broke their brown backs chasing Mr. White's dream,
that Bill of Rights was just a pyramid scheme."
- Nunca David Hidalgo & Los Refugio Tiernos
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 14, 2017, 00:09 Simon Says
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 13, 2017, 22:20:
The Russians attacked us and there’s copious evidence to prove it.

Then PRESENT the evidence and I will change my mind, none was presented so far, not a single shred of evidence in 8 months was presented.

NKD wrote on Jun 13, 2017, 23:19:
Are people still denying Russia fucked with our election process?

There is nothing to deny. A claim without evidence ( presented evidence ) can be dismissed without evidence.

I don't care what this or that US citizen thinks, the Drumpf included, until evidence has been duly PRESENTED, not buying it, as should I in any matter regarding any subject. Otherwise its pretty much like "God is real, trust me". Sorry folks, present evidence or gtfo.

Strange belief spreading system you got over there in the media and some parts of so called "sciences". I now understand more and more how the US culture can build house of cards of science denialism, religious interference in science ( among others ) and media propaganda without any third party validated presented evidence whatsoever, and then defend and uphold them tooth and nail as if they were holy gospel.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 23:19 NKD
 
Are people still denying Russia fucked with our election process?

Even a few people in the Trump administration concede that point now. (Though Trump himself never will.) Jeff "Klan Keebler Elf" Sessions as much as admitted that there is a consensus in the intelligence community and that Russia will continue to do so. They just don't care to do anything about it because anything they uncover would make their win seem less legitimate.
 
Avatar 43041
 
"Broke their brown backs chasing Mr. White's dream,
that Bill of Rights was just a pyramid scheme."
- Nunca David Hidalgo & Los Refugio Tiernos
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 22:20 RedEye9
 
The United States and our democratic institutions were attacked by a hostile foreign power, yet donald refuses to do a damn thing about it. Not only is he still infuriatingly chummy with the Russians, gifting them (without reciprocation) classified intelligence inside the Oval Office and reopening housing compounds that serve as bases for Russian spies. He won’t even acknowledge as legitimate the very basic nut of the story, that Russia hacked the 2015-16 election cycle. Never mind the question of possible collusion for now. The Russians attacked us and there’s copious evidence to prove it.  
Avatar 58135
 
There's a fool-proof way to tell if something a conservative/right-wing/Republican said is true or not. If they call it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.needtoimpeach.com/
http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 22:03 Simon Says
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 13, 2017, 21:36:
Tell that to Reality Leigh Winner.

She leaked the top secret docs to the intercept and got arrested, so what? By your alleged assertion that means that A = C. Its a non-sequitur. It doesn't mean that the leaked documents had any evidence in them, it just means they were top secret documents, which is all we can be sure of atm as it is the only evidence that was presented.

A = Top secret documents leaked
B = Evidence in them
C = Evidence presented

I can't take it for their word that A = C if they can't prove, or won't show, that A = B and B = C.

That's not how it works. That goes against basic maths and logic as well as proper procedure.

Ofc, if you want to believe it, believe whatever you want to believe. I won't interfere with your beliefs, but don't try to get me to share them when that's the best ( which is essentially nothing but conjectures and speculation ) you got to back it up.

I thus reaffirm, present evidence or it didn't happen US.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
3. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 21:36 RedEye9
 
Simon Says wrote on Jun 13, 2017, 21:22:
That Russia article... *goes to source at bloomberg* no evidence... *goes to bloomberg's source at the intercept* slides and redacted documents without any substance whatsoever and no sources.

No computer logs, no traceroutes, no IP adresses, no data nor metadata, nothing, but slides anyone could've come up with and useless words on redacted documents.

"We have evidence 'just trust us'."

Once again, like I've been saying for the past 8 months, PRESENT EVIDENCE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Tell that to Reality Leigh Winner.
 
Avatar 58135
 
There's a fool-proof way to tell if something a conservative/right-wing/Republican said is true or not. If they call it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.needtoimpeach.com/
http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
2. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 21:22 Simon Says
 
That Russia article... *goes to source at bloomberg* no evidence... *goes to bloomberg's source at the intercept* slides and redacted documents without any substance whatsoever and no sources.

No computer logs, no traceroutes, no IP adresses, no data nor metadata, nothing, but slides anyone could've come up with and useless words on redacted documents.

"We have evidence 'just trust us'."

Once again, like I've been saying for the past 8 months, PRESENT EVIDENCE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
1. Re: Evening Safety Dance Jun 13, 2017, 21:02 RedEye9
 

Microsoft, finally trying to win back my heart.
 
Avatar 58135
 
There's a fool-proof way to tell if something a conservative/right-wing/Republican said is true or not. If they call it "fake news", you can be sure it's the solid truth.
https://www.needtoimpeach.com/
http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo