Out of the Blue

Such sad news about the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert. This kind of stuff is above my pay grade, but I'll just say these are disturbing times, and one can only hope that we can figure out the right balance between safety and freedom in the face of such horrors.

Sad Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Left Behind.
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Botulism Confirmed in California Nacho Cheese Outbreak. So people really do eat that melted plastic.
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68 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  ] Older
68.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 23:30
68.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 23:30
May 24, 2017, 23:30
 
NKD wrote on May 23, 2017, 18:48:
You've got the entire sphere of Islam. Within that sphere, the vast majority of them are within the sphere of conservative Muslims

You're making things up.

Indonesia 204,847,000
Pakistan 178,097,000
India 172,000,000
Bangladesh 145,312,000
Nigeria 75,728,000
Iran 74,819,000
Turkey 74,660,000
Egypt 73,746,000
Algeria 34,780,000
Morocco 32,381,000
Iraq 31,108,000
Sudan 30,855,000
Saudi Arabia 30,770,375
Afghanistan 29,047,000
Ethiopia 28,721,000
Uzbekistan 26,833,000
Yemen 24,023,000
China 23,308,000
Syria 20,895,000
Malaysia 17,139,000
Russia 16,379,000
Niger 15,627,000
Philippines 5,000,000
Somalia 10,864,733
(not an exhaustive list)

A minority of those countries have large conservative Muslim populations, not the other way around.
Avatar 17249
67.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 12:30
67.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 12:30
May 24, 2017, 12:30
 
Porn-O-Matic wrote on May 23, 2017, 13:25:
Seeing as how melted plastic cannot support bacterial life... it's therefor not melted plastic, is it? Seriously, could you come up with a more hair-brained comment? How about I melt some ACTUAL plastic, put it on some nachos and make you eat it, dumbass. You will very quickly discover (the hard way) just how ignorant you are about what foods are made of. You're all like, "Ah yeah, that stuff is like plastic, cuz I eat real melted plastic all the fucking time and I know exactly what melted plastic tastes like." Shut the fuck up.

You sound like an autistic disgruntled Kraft shareholder that just got triggered. Seriously what the fuck are you defending fake cheese for?
Avatar 56178
66.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 24, 2017, 11:09
Quboid
 
66.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 24, 2017, 11:09
May 24, 2017, 11:09
 Quboid
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 24, 2017, 08:19:
but we've nevertheless entered a surreal world in which no other terrorism exists, and that the notion that white Catholics and Protestants were once the de facto face of terrorism in the West is treated as laughable. I can't imagine how weird it must be to encounter people who personally lived through The Troubles but now can only equate terrorism with Muslims.

Yep, people who see murals like that all the time, who live within a couple of miles from this (that marks the area of Londonderry where, for a time, the police didn't dare to go). This striking fellow is a Molotov cocktail's throw from where I live, if you like seeing murals in your murals. Obviously these two are from different sides too.
Avatar 10439
65.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 10:45
65.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 10:45
May 24, 2017, 10:45
 
"False religion," lol.
64.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 09:32
64.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 09:32
May 24, 2017, 09:32
 
Kxmode wrote on May 24, 2017, 00:27:
Dacote wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:24:
In this thread someone mentioned a "straight forward solution" and someone else followed up with "a real solution". Both implied that we all know what those solutions are and that they must be simple.

Well, no one knows wtf "the solution" is. And neither do the above hit and run posters.

The solution is probably something you never thought about. (Hidden for the religious intolerant:) Part of problem, not part of the solution.
I was looking for something not based on fairy tales and fables. The op's had trolled a magical obvious "solution", oh wait that's just like your suggestion so nevermind.
63.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 08:46
Kxmode
 
63.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 08:46
May 24, 2017, 08:46
 Kxmode
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 24, 2017, 07:05:
RedEye9 wrote on May 23, 2017, 13:44:
If by queso you mean...

I do not, not even close. Velveeta is heresy. Worthy of an exterminatus.

Nacho cheese is close to post mortem.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
62.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 24, 2017, 08:19
62.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 24, 2017, 08:19
May 24, 2017, 08:19
 
Quboid wrote on May 23, 2017, 21:09:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 19:47:
[...]Granted, 9/11 was a traumatic event, but the world only changed because we decided to collectively live in fear.[...]

Yep, to the whole post. Considering the main goal of ISIS attacks in the West is to force a divide between the West and Islam, we've conceded so much to them. Attitudes to terrorism changed in Northern Ireland too, there are people for whom The Troubles were during most of their lives and even they think terrorism is the scary Muslims.

I think there are two separate but very closely related issues: keeping ourselves safe and fixing the root problem. It's the former that dominates politics and national policy but the later which is key to the problem. Safety is obviously important but the danger to you and me is hugely exaggerated by populist politicians and sensationalist media and I think that's leading us to make bad decisions with regard to reducing the problem globally.

Heh, not that long ago I mentioned the movie Patriot Games to one of my coworkers who is recently out of school. He hadn't heard of it, so I summarized it as a CIA analyst and his family being targeted for assassination by Irish terrorists after he intervenes as a bystander in an attack in London. When I mentioned "Irish terrorists" he literally laughed: the idea of Irish terrorists to him seemed absurd. And this kid is an Ivy League engineering school grad! Yes, terrorist attacks committed by putative Muslims are a routine thing these days, but we've nevertheless entered a surreal world in which no other terrorism exists, and that the notion that white Catholics and Protestants were once the de facto face of terrorism in the West is treated as laughable. I can't imagine how weird it must be to encounter people who personally lived through The Troubles but now can only equate terrorism with Muslims.

Clausewitz is hopelessly oriented towards the Western way of war, but if we take his famous dictum of war being the continuation of politics by other means, then terrorism is the continuation of war by other means. We engage in armed conflict when we do not have legal and political means to redress disputes and resolve conflicts. We engage in terrorism when we do not have the military power to engage in conventional armed conflict to resolve our conflicts and disputes.

ISIS has goals that are too extreme to be resolved in the political system of our international order, and their military power is too weak to engage in conventional conflict beyond the borders of their "state", so that leaves them with only one option to pursue their goals abroad: low-tech, low-casualty, max impact, showpiece suicide terror attacks. As you note, they specifically want to awaken Muslims worldwide to the "righteousness" of their cause, especially Muslims in the West, so that they can have the manpower to confront us more conventionally in a final, apocalyptic battle. The attacks aren't meant to kill us in significant numbers; they are meant to make us hate them and fear them to the point that anyone with brown skin and a beard seems suspect: that's the difference between warfare and terrorism.

And frankly, it seems like their terrorism is largely succeeding in that end.
61.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 07:05
61.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 07:05
May 24, 2017, 07:05
 
RedEye9 wrote on May 23, 2017, 13:44:
If by queso you mean...

I do not, not even close. Velveeta is heresy. Worthy of an exterminatus.

Agent-Zero wrote on May 23, 2017, 16:10:
...just sit down and shut up... nobody cares

And yet you cared enough to post the most boring, Caucasian attempt at "queso" without the use of processed cheese food product.

So, kindly, sit down, shut up, and let folks who know how to make queso do so. I bet you didn't even use a molcajete.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net .
Avatar 21247
60.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 05:47
60.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 05:47
May 24, 2017, 05:47
 
edit: I shouldn't drink and type.

This comment was edited on May 24, 2017, 06:53.
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"Money doesn't exist in the 24th century, the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." - Jean-Luc Picard
59.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 24, 2017, 00:27
Kxmode
 
59.
Re: Out of the Blue May 24, 2017, 00:27
May 24, 2017, 00:27
 Kxmode
 
Dacote wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:24:
In this thread someone mentioned a "straight forward solution" and someone else followed up with "a real solution". Both implied that we all know what those solutions are and that they must be simple.

Well, no one knows wtf "the solution" is. And neither do the above hit and run posters.

The solution is probably something you never thought about. (Hidden for the religious intolerant:)

Revelation 17:16,17 tells us in advanced that God is going to use the political powers as a tool to wipe out false religion globally.

The United Nations is the tool through which to accomplish this. Through my personal study of the scriptures, the United Nations is identified as "the eighth king" in Biblical prophecy at Revelation 17:11.
So in an ironic twist this eighth king - the United Nations, the governing power that the Vatican and scores of other religions give their support to - will turn on and destroy them. Not only will they destroy those who KILL in the name of their religion (e.g. terrorists, lone wolves, etc.), they will also go after and destroy those who TEACH in the name of their religion as well (Mosques, churches, Westboro Baptist, etc.).

Here's where it states that in the Bible. Revelation 17:16,17, "And the ten horns (symbolically the United Nations) that you saw and the wild beast (symbolically the Seventh and final world power: Britain and The United States ), these will hate the prostitute (symbolically the global empire of false religion) and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

This is very noteworthy because for thousands of years world religions have stood unchallenged and treated by secular governments as beacons of morality and conduits to God. However, the verse tells us that God is the one to put it into their hearts to attack religion en masse. In other words priests, bishops, imams, televangelists, their buildings, their infrastructure, their money, their wealth, their supporters... ALL OF IT to be reduced to rubble and ruin. Most zealots of the faith will likely turn violent on any remaining religious leaders.

This destruction won't stop with just one or two religions, but it will engulf virtually all of them, and it will be swift. In describing the destruction, the Bible uses the words "one hour." (Revelation 18:10, 15) Jesus stated the destruction is going to be so severe and swift that unless God intervenes "no flesh would be saved." (Matthew 24:22) God has other plans in the works after the destruction of false religion. Its destruction is merely the first step. The "end game" is the eventual restoration of the earth back to its original form under the care of perfect humans. But that won't happen for a long time. The Bible gives a definite period: 1,000 years under Jesus' rulership. (Revelation 20:1-7) With Satan locked away in a prison of sorts, his absence will provide the respite for humanity to grow towards perfection unhindered. There's more after the 1,000 years end, but I won't get into it. You can study this if you wish.

Whether or not you care what the Bible says, you can take comfort in knowing that God will annihilate religion. People will not be ready for when that happens, but as 1 Thessalonians 5:2 states "Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night." In other words, unexpected.

The thing I am looking forward to is the "exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:11) This is my faith, based on what Bibles reveals about the future. That's why I don't care what's going on in the world. This system is going to continue to get worse until it comes to its end.

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
58.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 23, 2017, 23:58
58.
Re: Out of the Blue May 23, 2017, 23:58
May 23, 2017, 23:58
 
@SMA, Muslim terrorists were the baddies in Back to the Future.

COVID infections: 133M - - - COVID deaths: 3M - - - Death rate: 2%
Vaccines administered: 711M - - - Vaccine deaths: 7 - - - Death rate: 0.00000001%
Your choice is clear.
Avatar 22024
57.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 23:06
57.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 23:06
May 23, 2017, 23:06
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 21:58:
Beamer wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:32:
Have you tried Crispo yet? Just came back from there, actually.

Not yet. Google feeds me breakfast lunch and dinner during the work week, so I've actually gone to very few restaurants. And on weekends my friends seem to be more of a "brunch as the main meal of the day, then maybe some bar food as the afternoon and evening progresses" types. I do like the Corner Bistro on Jane St. for a hamburger and beer though (cheap too, by NYC standards!) and Bonsigneur, also on Jane St, is my go to for getting a picnic sandwich or salad. The Crooked Knife on 15th(?) st is also a pretty good spot for both brunch and dinner, with bottomless beer and wine dinners on Sunday and Monday night haha.

In NYC, brunch is definitely an 8 hour event.
56.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 23, 2017, 22:46
56.
Re: Out of the Blue May 23, 2017, 22:46
May 23, 2017, 22:46
 
The UK lost track of that balance for quite a while now, sadly. But it baffles the mind, what inhuman animal would target children?
Avatar 54727
55.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:58
55.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:58
May 23, 2017, 21:58
 
Beamer wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:32:
Have you tried Crispo yet? Just came back from there, actually.

Not yet. Google feeds me breakfast lunch and dinner during the work week, so I've actually gone to very few restaurants. And on weekends my friends seem to be more of a "brunch as the main meal of the day, then maybe some bar food as the afternoon and evening progresses" types. I do like the Corner Bistro on Jane St. for a hamburger and beer though (cheap too, by NYC standards!) and Bonsigneur, also on Jane St, is my go to for getting a picnic sandwich or salad. The Crooked Knife on 15th(?) st is also a pretty good spot for both brunch and dinner, with bottomless beer and wine dinners on Sunday and Monday night haha.
54.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:58
54.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:58
May 23, 2017, 21:58
 
Krodge wrote on May 23, 2017, 21:17:
People are blindly claiming that its a book of nothing but peace. So these kids are primed to believe it. But when they encounter hate preachers they have no come backs or defense against the very well thought out straight forward arguments the preachers give them.

This sounds pretty ridiculous. Well-reasoned arguments just demolishing people's belief systems and completely rewriting their behavior. Telling people what their religion really means. Who would seriously suggest that kind of scenario now that we have the Internet? It's not even slightly plausible.

You work people up by preaching Us vs. Them. Any people, any time, any ideology. Other people hate us, they're working against our interests and trying to hurt us. And it's usually true to some extent for everyone. If you banned faith schools, would you go on to ban mosques and churches, and religion outright? There are places besides schools to have Us vs. Them drilled into you, and more than a few of these terrorists were radicalized as adults. The news has people saying this bomber was such a nice kid, what happened, and so on.
53.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:39
53.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:39
May 23, 2017, 21:39
 
Krodge wrote on May 23, 2017, 21:17:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:14:
A Final Solution, perhaps?

Do you honestly believe that's what he was saying?
How can we even discuss the issue if you're going to imply things like that?


Granted, he left it open to interpretation but given his post history, I strongly doubt the "facts" to which he referred were about the history, theology, social practices, cultural contributions, and broad diversity of the Muslim world. Nor is it likely his proposed solution involved leveraging empathy, education, and a greater commitment to economic and social development projects in the Muslim world. In case you've never seen footage of a Trump rally, there are a whole lot of people for whom the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. Occasionally, they show up on this forum. If he'd like to correct me, he's welcome to, but as others have noted, no one who mentions the "simple and obvious" solution seems enthusiastic about coming back to explain they weren't suggesting actions that would violate the Geneva Convention or the Laws of Land Warfare.
52.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:31
52.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:31
May 23, 2017, 21:31
 
SMITE wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:16:
This "none of us are ever going to die of terrorism" argument pisses me the hell off. So what if none of US are going to die from it--lots of other people ARE dying from it. Are the lives of people in other countries worth so little to you?

What if you happened to be born in Afghanistan? Or Pakistan? Or Saudi Arabia? Or, for that matter, France or England?

Islamic terrorism is a global issue, even if you're lucky enough to live in a country that doesn't suffer from it.

As for "being a pussy," I have no fear whatsoever of a terror attack here in the U.S. I'm not afraid, period. But I still have empathy for the victims, and hatred for their attackers, and for those who would defend the religion that drives them.

The metrics aren't much worse for France or England. Yes, there have been high profile attacks in the past several years; no, they haven't killed that many people. Well under 1000 since 2014, by my eyeballed, not actually punched into a calculator summation of the numbers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe_(2014%E2%80%93present) I'd be willing to bet more French men and women die of Gauloises-induced lung cancer every week or so than will die to an ISIS attacker for as long as ISIS is a thing. The risk is higher in the EU because they face completely different security challenges, but the danger terrorism poses to them is the danger terrorism poses most everywhere: not to actually inflict real damage, but to induce fear out of proportion to that damage, so that the targets begin to take rash, self-damaging actions.

As for Muslim majority countries in which you are much more likely to die from terrorism, that does indeed suck for Muslim civilians. It also sucks that we back the authoritarian regimes which oppress those Muslim citizens and which have delegitimized the secular Pan-Arab Nationalist reform movement of the 50s and 60s which those authoritarians co opted, and, most importantly, gave rise to Political Islam in the 70s as a reaction to the perceived failure of Arab Nationalism and Secularism. Yeah, Islam in 2017 remains in many ways a medieval religion, and no, not everything is about America, but yes, damn it, we played a major role in ensuring that Political Islam, -- and after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s, its more militant, jihadist off shoots -- completely superseded the secular, modernist alternatives. But hey, at least we maintained the balance of power in the region against the Soviets, peeled off a few Arab states to make peace with Israel as part of the bargain, and prevented the democratically elected Mossadegh from nationalizing Iranian oil by deposing him in a coup, at least until the puppet authoritarian Shah we put in his place was deposed by the Islamic Revolution!

One of the arguments that consistently comes up after an ISIS terrorist attack is that Muslims are the problem -- an argument that is reductive in the extreme but I will nevertheless admit isn't entirely without merit either -- yet the only consistent, large scale victims of those problematic people are... themselves. So is Islam the problem that requires a "simple and obvious" solution, or are Muslims the victims of a problem that by and large doesn't affect us Westerners except in so far as we make bone-headed decisions to "fix" a region we've been progressively and cumulatively fucking up since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire? Speaking of which, kind of cool how the forces of Political Islam we were so instrumental in nurturing and unleashing -- and then arming for battle in Soviet-era Afghanistan -- have now effectively subverted what was once the crown jewel of a modern, secular, Muslim-majority state, i.e. Turkey?

Look, we're all angry and bitter because something shitty happened in the world, again. Yet, aside from the "simple and obvious" solution, or rather the human-rights-abusing-war-crimes-committing-non-solution, there's not a whole lot we can do about it. My own take is that we've long since lost the privilege of claiming this is our problem to solve.

This comment was edited on May 23, 2017, 21:46.
51.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:17
51.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:17
May 23, 2017, 21:17
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:14:
A Final Solution, perhaps?

Do you honestly believe that's what he was saying?
How can we even discuss the issue if you're going to imply things like that?

How about these ideas for possible solutions?
We start by teaching the Quran and Hadiths (And bible for that matter) in schools.
Not as religious indoctrination but teaching what they actually say and the history behind them.
Because a lot of people are totally clueless.
People are blindly claiming that its a book of nothing but peace. So these kids are primed to believe it. But when they encounter hate preachers they have no come backs or defense against the very well thought out straight forward arguments the preachers give them.

Another thing is to shut down faith schools so kids growing up are forced to mix with kids of other religions and ideologies. Instead of forming closed self segregated groups where they begin to believe that they are the correct and pure ones and everyone else is corrupted and lesser than them in some way.

Also banning the hate group and Islamist recruiters Hizb ut tahrir would be very helpful, As well as taking greater actions to tackle Islamic hate speech and obfuscation in general.

And no, By "greater actions" I dont mean "Gas chambers".
50.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:09
Quboid
 
50.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:09
May 23, 2017, 21:09
 Quboid
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 19:47:
[...]Granted, 9/11 was a traumatic event, but the world only changed because we decided to collectively live in fear.[...]

Yep, to the whole post. Considering the main goal of ISIS attacks in the West is to force a divide between the West and Islam, we've conceded so much to them. Attitudes to terrorism changed in Northern Ireland too, there are people for whom The Troubles were during most of their lives and even they think terrorism is the scary Muslims.

I think there are two separate but very closely related issues: keeping ourselves safe and fixing the root problem. It's the former that dominates politics and national policy but the later which is key to the problem. Safety is obviously important but the danger to you and me is hugely exaggerated by populist politicians and sensationalist media and I think that's leading us to make bad decisions with regard to reducing the problem globally.
Avatar 10439
49.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
May 23, 2017, 21:01
Quboid
 
49.
Re: Morning Mobilization May 23, 2017, 21:01
May 23, 2017, 21:01
 Quboid
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on May 23, 2017, 20:14:
fishingtime wrote on May 23, 2017, 19:08:
stop ignoring the unfortunate facts about Islam if you want a real solution

A Final Solution, perhaps?

Stop ignoring the fact that you're going to have to live with some amount of risk and fear in your life. The only alternative is to go back to a world in which human life was much nastier, brutish, and short, and hope that your tribe finishes the primitive blood feud before nukes get launched.

Check the name and the post history. If you use the ignore feature, you know what to do.
Avatar 10439
68 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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