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Morning Consolidation

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21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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21. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 22:33 NewMaxx
 
The console industry is an interesting one because it tends to use all of the traditional marketing tactics. Everybody remembers "razor economics" for example. The industry has been pretty linear for quite some time now to the point the product has basically become a commodity or appliance. There's a lot less mystery here than in the (far) past.

What they're doing here is price anchoring. Essentially, they are trying to get people on the fence (those who are not yet customers) to buy the cheaper models by making them look like a bargain versus the upgraded models. This has the added benefit of attracting cross-brand buyers (those who will own both Sony and Microsoft) as well as those just getting into (or back into) consoles. This is one of the reasons sales for the newer models are relatively disappointing. The entrance of the Switch was likely timed to overlap this market, too (the Wii also tapped it successfully). They're also trying to attract re-buyers who want to upgrade, of course, but long-term that will happen naturally as they progress to the next generation.

Of course there are comparisons to the PC market which is pretty apt; consoles aren't like smartphones. That's largely to do with software development times, etc., there's tons to say about it but strictly speaking it's a pretty well-directed market.
 
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20. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 20:29 HoSpanky
 
I bought a PS4 PRO, but only because I didn't have a PS4 yet and why not get the faster of the two. If they do a...PS4 PROPRO, I'll probably skip it. If they bump up consoles every 4 years, but keep them actually compatible for a cycle or two, it'd be like the PC market except with a lot less hassle. I love the idea that a game I buy today will work on a PS4 PROPROPROPROPRO, and maybe even run better.

And by "a game", I mean "Horizon Zero Dawn". I mean, shit, it's almost worth buying the console for, alone. If I can play it again in a few years at 60 fps, then hot damn.

I already have an Xbone, and the games I want for it are now showing up on Windows, so I don't think the Xbone is aimed at me.
 
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19. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 14:30 Cutter
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on May 10, 2017, 11:16:
Creston wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:20:
Console owners not interested in tech arms race? Whodathunkit?

Maybe because if you're going to be spending 500 bucks every two years for the latest greatest new console, you might as well be buying a PC and upgrading it?



They're not making this for a majority of current xbox or ps owners though. It's for people who have enough expendable income or the impulse to always own the latest and greatest. Those people will always buy these so it's not a bad idea to have released them, business wise. New purchasers of one of these consoles may be enticed to pay slightly more to get better quality as well, if the price isnt too much more than the standard console (and in both cases it isn't). The same thinking is behind things like the xbox elite controller, and other $150+ controllers out there. We didnt see things like that in previous console generations. You can pay extra for a "premium experience" compared to the standard plebs who get regular editions of consoles now.

That's the same sort of flawed thinking that got Sony into deep financial trouble in the first place. If you want to go exclusive high end you need to be selling a product for a lot more than $500 to make any money at all. No, they were very clearly hoping that everyone would ooh and ahh and spend the money. You think they'd have learned it doesn't work this way with electronics and home appliances by now, but no.
 
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18. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 14:06 MrBone
 
As someone who doesn't have either one of the newest consoles, this works out quite well for me. We have none other than Red Dead Redemption 2 coming out quite soon and its performance on these new consoles should dazzle us. Sign me up.

As for the newest phone/pads, you have seriously diminishing returns on that stuff nowadays. My iPad Air first gen is perfectly fine. Who cares if the newest one is 8 times faster, you will barely notice it. Same thing with CPU's, etc.
 
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17. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 14:00 Creston
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on May 10, 2017, 11:16:
They're not making this for a majority of current xbox or ps owners though. It's for people who have enough expendable income or the impulse to always own the latest and greatest.

I dunno. The rumor mill is going that Sony is basically breaking even on the Pro, and that Scorpio costs MS ~ 500 dollars to make. So I doubt they're doing it to catch the whales who buy everything. If you wanted to do that, you'd release Pro/Scorpio at $1000+, like Nvidia does with the Titan series.
 
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16. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 12:19 Mordecai Walfish
 
**REMOVED** whoops, edit turned into new post  
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15. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 12:15 Fion
 
The console market has been shrinking in the last few years so that trend is obviously going to impact the sale of these mid-cycle step-ups.

And FYI, most PC gamers don't exist on the 'bleeding edge'. Most of us have $800 PCs that they built and then spend about $3-400 every two or three years on a new video card, CPU or Monitor with the latest tech; so that they can play at high or highest specs at a decent FPS.


It's easier and less expensive than it ever has been to get into PC gaming, which is why it's booming atm... why steam itself has gone from ~2m concurrent users on your average weekday to ~12 million in like the last year+. PC gamings dominance in E-sports has helped a great deal as well.

This comment was edited on May 10, 2017, 12:33.
 
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:34 HorrorScope
 
What people are calling mid-refresh, would mean there is a totally new non-compatible console coming in 4 years. I'm thinking there isn't and instead it is another refresh, drop the MID part of this, this is what it is the next compatible upgrade offering.

If Scorpio hits its numbers, that is a full console upgrade in terms of performance or damn close. If I had a Bone and was up MS's nut sack as a console gamer, I'd be very excited by this. The HW today is a slug and I would want better. This is the right strategy moving forward for both MS and Sony. No reason to reinvent from scratch again. To me the gamer has to re-calibrate how this works moving forward.
 
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13. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:32 theglaze
 
I thought the next-gen was for both 4K and VR/AR... isn't HoloLens launching with Scorpio?

Having tried both Vive and Rift, it's a hellova game changer. Not every style of gameplay can make the transition to that new space, but new ones will emerge.

Samsung can run away with the market if the traditional console manufacturers aren't careful. People want the $700 phone more than a $500 console, there's must more "value" there. The Galaxy S8 already has the highest pixel density in the VR space...
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:16 Mordecai Walfish
 
Creston wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:20:
Console owners not interested in tech arms race? Whodathunkit?

Maybe because if you're going to be spending 500 bucks every two years for the latest greatest new console, you might as well be buying a PC and upgrading it?



They're not making this for a majority of current xbox or ps owners though. It's for people who have enough expendable income or the impulse to always own the latest and greatest. Those people will always buy these so it's not a bad idea to have released them, business wise. New purchasers of one of these consoles may be enticed to pay slightly more to get better quality as well, if the price isnt too much more than the standard console (and in both cases it isn't). The same thinking is behind things like the xbox elite controller, and other $150+ controllers out there. We didnt see things like that in previous console generations. You can pay extra for a "premium experience" compared to the standard plebs who get regular editions of consoles now.

This comment was edited on May 10, 2017, 12:20.
 
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11. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:15 SpectralMeat
 
HorrorScope wrote on May 10, 2017, 11:06:
Someone tell me why they wouldn't want better
It's not that. It's just these mid cycle refreshes do not offer the same benefit as a whole new console design like going from 360 to one
Most console gamers aren't like PC gamers that has to live on the bleeding edge. Heck even PC gamers will consider a graphics card upgrade if it only gives you marginal improvements.

Again if you do not have the One or PS4 this is a good time to get the newest model but you are still playing the same games people with the original consoles play just at 60fps vs 30fps or something which for the most part isn't important for console gamers. At least in my experience none of my console friends really care much about that.
What they care about is the convenient of just put the disc into the console and the game runs on their tv without fiddling around with drivers and compatibility issues that the PC was suffering from
 
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10. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:09 Jivaro
 
I have a PS4 that I got as a birthday present to myself a few months after launch. I originally thought I would buy a Pro but the Scorpio fills more needs both now and for a longer time past now. Add to that the bonus of having access to a different game library with different exclusives. I haven't bought both major consoles during the same "generation" since the Genesis/SNES era, so it's not a normal thing for me to do. I am what most of you would consider a Playstation fanboy and I have admitted as much before.

That said, MS made some very competitive moves with Scorpio. Maybe some features can't be used by many people or whatever but what those features do is separate the Scorpio from the PS4/Pro. I think MS did it to get people like me, PS4 owners who already assume they are going to upgrade to a Pro, to consider getting a Scorpio instead. I think it's a great strategy but I have no idea if it will actually work. It's going to work on me, I can say that. I will get a Scorpio and then maybe sometime in later on if a PS4 game I want to play is significantly better on the Pro...maybe then I will trade my used PS4 for a used PS4Pro or something. It's a likely scenario because I play 3 sports games regularly and all three franchises are already talking about Pro improvements with their next release.
 
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9. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 11:06 HorrorScope
 
LOL I haven't been all that interested in a console for a long time but if Scorpio hits those numbers I might be.

But if this is a loser idea are consoles dying then? Otherwise what do they want? A totally new console that has to reinvent everything once again with no backwards compatibility? Who wants that? Do they want continued under-performing hardware? I would think only those without the funds to upgrade would be satisfied with staying pat.

Someone tell me why they wouldn't want better or be stuck with slow hardware just to wait 5 more years with a new console then with zero compatibility? It makes sense now to do HW refreshes for the user, perhaps they just don't know it.

Xbox one was released 4 years ago. This becomes a purchase option for gamers, those that game a ton and are deep into console gaming and have funds, you would have to think this is a no-brainer for them. Better performance, done, just like we wait on the pc for better hardware reasonably priced.
 
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8. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:53 SpectralMeat
 
Flatline wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:47:
SpectralMeat wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:32:
I don't think console gamers in particular get all excited about playing their games in 60fps vs 30fps for the small investment of $500
Didn't the PS4 Pro had some rocky start in it's life too where games were running shittier on the PRO than on the regular PS4?
I seem to recall something about that.

Anywho, we'll see how the hype train goes after E3

The 4K TV install base and 4k game optimization is not really where it should be to even consider it a selling point imo. If those new consoles can even run the games in 4K, I didn't really look into the tech specs tbh because I don't really care all that much about new consoles.

To be honest it seems like this mid-cycle upgrade seems to be the point you want to wait for. Buying a PS4 Pro or the upgraded xbox now if you don't have this generation's hardware is a win.

If Microsoft and Sony think they're going to bang us for 500 bucks every two years like Apple they're sorely mistaken. My patience for yearly or two year hardware refreshes is almost entirely exhausted by my cell phone. It's the same reason why tablet sales are flat and/or shrinking.
Oh totally if you do not have a console but thinking about getting one, these are great offerings, assuming games will take some meaningful advantage of the added hardware.
 
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7. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:49 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:43:
It was stupid of them to focus on 4K anyway. Like 12% of the market has a 4K TV. They should have gone with "look at how freaking AMAZING games look on the PS4 pro/Scorpio at 1080P" and just turned on every single possible bell and whistle while running at a rock solid 60fps.

Nope. Instead make the games run shitty at upscaled 4K. Brilliant.

I totally agree, but then again the 4k market has the disposable income and is vocal enough about it to gain attention.

I also suspect that up-scaling to 4k is probably cheaper from a design point of view than cranking up all the bells and whistles.
 
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6. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:47 Flatline
 
SpectralMeat wrote on May 10, 2017, 10:32:
I don't think console gamers in particular get all excited about playing their games in 60fps vs 30fps for the small investment of $500
Didn't the PS4 Pro had some rocky start in it's life too where games were running shittier on the PRO than on the regular PS4?
I seem to recall something about that.

Anywho, we'll see how the hype train goes after E3

The 4K TV install base and 4k game optimization is not really where it should be to even consider it a selling point imo. If those new consoles can even run the games in 4K, I didn't really look into the tech specs tbh because I don't really care all that much about new consoles.

To be honest it seems like this mid-cycle upgrade seems to be the point you want to wait for. Buying a PS4 Pro or the upgraded xbox now if you don't have this generation's hardware is a win.

If Microsoft and Sony think they're going to bang us for 500 bucks every two years like Apple they're sorely mistaken. My patience for yearly or two year hardware refreshes is almost entirely exhausted by my cell phone. It's the same reason why tablet sales are flat and/or shrinking.
 
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5. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:43 Creston
 
It was stupid of them to focus on 4K anyway. Like 12% of the market has a 4K TV. They should have gone with "look at how freaking AMAZING games look on the PS4 pro/Scorpio at 1080P" and just turned on every single possible bell and whistle while running at a rock solid 60fps.

Nope. Instead make the games run shitty at upscaled 4K. Brilliant.
 
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4. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:42 Dentorro
 
I might get an X-box Scorpio of there are some good games announced as I would like a 4k capable console for my 4k TV but I want some good games too.

And as I got a PS4 late, I was not going to dump it after 1 year for the PRO which is only semi capable of 4K.
 
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3. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:32 SpectralMeat
 
I don't think console gamers in particular get all excited about playing their games in 60fps vs 30fps for the small investment of $500
Didn't the PS4 Pro had some rocky start in it's life too where games were running shittier on the PRO than on the regular PS4?
I seem to recall something about that.

Anywho, we'll see how the hype train goes after E3

The 4K TV install base and 4k game optimization is not really where it should be to even consider it a selling point imo. If those new consoles can even run the games in 4K, I didn't really look into the tech specs tbh because I don't really care all that much about new consoles.
 
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2. Re: Morning Consolidation May 10, 2017, 10:24 theglaze
 
It's just because the hype hasn't started yet, I don't think any commercials are much official media has been released by either M$ or $ony  
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