Does anyone else feel like the game prices we're seeing on places like CDkeys.com are a good indication of their true value in the US market? Dawn of War 3 was $30 approx there and now that I've played it after release that is definitely a fair price. $60 is insulting considering what they delivered.

I would assume Prey is the same. It's a $30 game they're trying to sell for $60...?

Hmm, Prey appears to have a better Metacritic score a little bit and a user score just as good so maybe prey is a better game all around.

Just odd how the deals I've jumped on via cd keys that seemed too good to be true turn out to be all too reasonable. Batman Arkham knight for less than $30, well that's a good deal...right? Nope, just a fair price. Dawn of War 3 for $30...has to be worth at least that right...technically yes, it was worth $30 imo...just not a lot more.

mellis wrote on May 3, 2017, 18:14:

Overon wrote on May 3, 2017, 17:32:
I thought the explanation was that releasing a PC demo would require DRM which would give a leg up head start for crackers looking to crack the PC retail release as soon as possible.

This is the primary reason. Mass Effect and Resident Evil are recent examples where a demo was provided and that demo executable was used to remove the (expensive) Denuvo protection on the retail game.

The game recently was patched and it included new version of denuvo, not as comparable to demo, and crackers still managed to crack it. So while demo does give crackers a helper, its not a necessity.

gilly775 wrote on May 4, 2017, 12:36:
But again, my issue here is the entire game and refund system excuse. I think it's ludicrous for those of us that do have caps. I don't know about everyone else here with a cap on their ISP but I'm a systems admin. I've got 4 kids and a wife that tend to chew up bandwidth at home. I Windows Update Dev servers one weekend night after Patch Tuesday and then Prod servers the weekend after. Granted I don't play a lot of online games but Steam/Uplay will update my library as updates are released. Sometimes I remote in after hours to fix issues, chewing up more bandwidth. I'm just disappointed that the mentality to create demos off of the full game is happening less and less. I miss the days of Game Demos on CDs and the availability to go to CNET.com to download them back in the mid/late 90s. It just baffles me how studios/publishers don't care anymore.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like your rationale for not wanting a time-limited demo is your ISP has hard bandwidth caps and charge for overages compared to your family's usage. It's 2017. Broadband replaced dial-up a long time ago. It's not expensive and most, if not all, ISPs do not have hard caps. They might have soft caps of 50-100GB in that if you consistently hit at or above their threshold they may inquire. That said they understand Youtube, Hulu, Steam, Origin, Netflix, and so forth creates a situation that makes bandwidth caps bad for business. If you find yourself in that situation with your ISP, then shop around for another. In the meantime, Valve should let publishers do time-trial demos before launch. "JUST DO IT!"

So apparently this game was soooo made for the PC and not for the consoles, Bethesda didn't bother with an FOV slider, but hey they have a workaround for ya so no worries guyz
"This ain't a PC port we promize guyz" *giggle giggle

HorrorScope wrote on May 3, 2017, 18:21:

gilly775 wrote on May 3, 2017, 14:49:
So those of us that have bandwidth caps get f'd in the end by not having a demo which could be less to download. Ooook. Here's a game I won't be buying then....

We'll find any angle to play and play it hard, even an old one like this. Circular conversation, I guess you don't play many different things if demo's are required.

No I don't, esp. when it comes to FPS games. But I will buy more strategy/RPG games just because over time I've settled into that genre.

But again, my issue here is the entire game and refund system excuse. I think it's ludicrous for those of us that do have caps. I don't know about everyone else here with a cap on their ISP but I'm a systems admin. I've got 4 kids and a wife that tend to chew up bandwidth at home. I Windows Update Dev servers one weekend night after Patch Tuesday and then Prod servers the weekend after. Granted I don't play a lot of online games but Steam/Uplay will update my library as updates are released. Sometimes I remote in after hours to fix issues, chewing up more bandwidth. I'm just disappointed that the mentality to create demos off of the full game is happening less and less. I miss the days of Game Demos on CDs and the availability to go to CNET.com to download them back in the mid/late 90s. It just baffles me how studios/publishers don't care anymore.

Beamer wrote on May 4, 2017, 10:05:

CJ_Parker wrote on May 4, 2017, 03:08:

Quinn wrote on May 4, 2017, 02:28:
Also, name a demo that lasted longer than 5 hours in the last 20 years.

Ummm... the Mass Effect Andromeda 10 hour free trial last month? OK. It required signing up for a free trial membership of Access but free is free and it was a very generous demo.

More free trials on Origin (that do NOT require also signing up for a free Access trial): Unravel (10 hours), Plants vs. Zombies (10 hours), The Sims 4 (two days, i.e. up to the theoretical maximum of 48h if you ovahdoze on caffeine), BF4 (sevens days = up to 168h including the SP campaign), SWBF (4 hours... OK, not quite 5h), Titanfall (two days = up to 48h), Dragon Age Inquisition (6 hours).

And if this shit ain't enough, you could exploit their Great Game Guarantee refund policy by playing a game for up to 23:59:59 hours. They have a much more generous policy than Steam with their measly 2 hours.

Well, finally Kxmode already mentioned free weekends on Steam. Those usually launch on Thursday at 10:00AM Pacific and last until Sunday.

Saying there haven't been 5h+ demos in the last 20 years is complete uneducated drivel.

10 hours of a Mass Effect game is like 10%.

This isn't an open world game. 10% would be much, much less. But hey, 2 hours is still better than the 3 minutes we used to get from GTA and Carmageddon.

This is exactly what I was getting at. I guess it's also my bad, but goddamnit people really need to have shit spelled out for them until they choose to get it. Thank fuck I'm not in politics. The fucking idiocy.

CJ_Parker wrote on May 4, 2017, 03:08:

Quinn wrote on May 4, 2017, 02:28:
Also, name a demo that lasted longer than 5 hours in the last 20 years.

Ummm... the Mass Effect Andromeda 10 hour free trial last month? OK. It required signing up for a free trial membership of Access but free is free and it was a very generous demo.

More free trials on Origin (that do NOT require also signing up for a free Access trial): Unravel (10 hours), Plants vs. Zombies (10 hours), The Sims 4 (two days, i.e. up to the theoretical maximum of 48h if you ovahdoze on caffeine), BF4 (sevens days = up to 168h including the SP campaign), SWBF (4 hours... OK, not quite 5h), Titanfall (two days = up to 48h), Dragon Age Inquisition (6 hours).

And if this shit ain't enough, you could exploit their Great Game Guarantee refund policy by playing a game for up to 23:59:59 hours. They have a much more generous policy than Steam with their measly 2 hours.

Well, finally Kxmode already mentioned free weekends on Steam. Those usually launch on Thursday at 10:00AM Pacific and last until Sunday.

Saying there haven't been 5h+ demos in the last 20 years is complete uneducated drivel.

10 hours of a Mass Effect game is like 10%.

This isn't an open world game. 10% would be much, much less. But hey, 2 hours is still better than the 3 minutes we used to get from GTA and Carmageddon.

I might end up grabbing this from Steam to "demo" it for 2 hrs, than refund it. If I like the game, I'll buy it from GMG.

CJ_Parker wrote on May 4, 2017, 03:08:

Quinn wrote on May 4, 2017, 02:28:
Also, name a demo that lasted longer than 5 hours in the last 20 years.

Ummm... the Mass Effect Andromeda 10 hour free trial last month? OK. It required signing up for a free trial membership of Access but free is free and it was a very generous demo.

More free trials on Origin (that do NOT require also signing up for a free Access trial): Unravel (10 hours), Plants vs. Zombies (10 hours), The Sims 4 (two days, i.e. up to the theoretical maximum of 48h if you ovahdoze on caffeine), BF4 (sevens days = up to 168h including the SP campaign), SWBF (4 hours... OK, not quite 5h), Titanfall (two days = up to 48h), Dragon Age Inquisition (6 hours).

And if this shit ain't enough, you could exploit their Great Game Guarantee refund policy by playing a game for up to 23:59:59 hours. They have a much more generous policy than Steam with their measly 2 hours.

Well, finally Kxmode already mentioned free weekends on Steam. Those usually launch on Thursday at 10:00AM Pacific and last until Sunday.

Saying there haven't been 5h+ demos in the last 20 years is complete uneducated drivel.

I almost want to start buying games on Origin so that I can get some of EA's generous demo-periods and refund guarantees. Valve needs to up their game and gives publishers the option to do time trials of upcoming titles. The publisher can determine the details. For big AAA-titles with a typical 50+ hour campaign, I think five hours is fine. Smaller indie publishers may decide on 30-minute previews. The point is in 2017 with digital distribution it shouldn't be hard to make an entire game playable within a specified period for a limited amount of time, without forcing a consumer to buy the game only to end up going through the annoying refund process.

jdreyer wrote on May 4, 2017, 02:49:

Kxmode wrote on May 3, 2017, 16:41:
The refund policy is NOT the equivalent of a PC demo and should never be used by publishers as a justification for not releasing a demo when the console versions have them!

Frankly, a refund is the last action a gamer takes when the game doesn't work for them. Two hours is only enough time to tell if the game will even run. There are way too many games that require several hours to see if the game is worth keeping.

Like, um, er, could you give us an example, perchance?

No Man's Sky.

Quinn wrote on May 4, 2017, 02:28:
Also, name a demo that lasted longer than 5 hours in the last 20 years.

Ummm... the Mass Effect Andromeda 10 hour free trial last month? OK. It required signing up for a free trial membership of Access but free is free and it was a very generous demo.

More free trials on Origin (that do NOT require also signing up for a free Access trial): Unravel (10 hours), Plants vs. Zombies (10 hours), The Sims 4 (two days, i.e. up to the theoretical maximum of 48h if you ovahdoze on caffeine), BF4 (sevens days = up to 168h including the SP campaign), SWBF (4 hours... OK, not quite 5h), Titanfall (two days = up to 48h), Dragon Age Inquisition (6 hours).

And if this shit ain't enough, you could exploit their Great Game Guarantee refund policy by playing a game for up to 23:59:59 hours. They have a much more generous policy than Steam with their measly 2 hours.

Well, finally Kxmode already mentioned free weekends on Steam. Those usually launch on Thursday at 10:00AM Pacific and last until Sunday.

Saying there haven't been 5h+ demos in the last 20 years is complete uneducated drivel.

Overon wrote on May 3, 2017, 17:32:
I thought the explanation was that releasing a PC demo would require DRM which would give a leg up head start for crackers looking to crack the PC retail release as soon as possible.

Also the guys is playing semantic games. When people say "PC port" they mean the PC release of a game that is also released on consoles. We all know that all games are written and designed on PC's but that doesn't stop so many multiplatform releases from being shitty on PC. What he's saying is true but misleading and people who lie by telling the truth can go fuck themselves.

What we really want to know is how much testing and optimization went into the PC version.

I agree, the pedantry is sophomoric.

Kxmode wrote on May 3, 2017, 16:41:
The refund policy is NOT the equivalent of a PC demo and should never be used by publishers as a justification for not releasing a demo when the console versions have them!

Frankly, a refund is the last action a gamer takes when the game doesn't work for them. Two hours is only enough time to tell if the game will even run. There are way too many games that require several hours to see if the game is worth keeping.

Like, um, er, could you give us an example, perchance?

Porn-O-Matic wrote on May 3, 2017, 13:14:
Sure, I could "demo" it for 2 hours, but really, 2 hours in almost any new game goes by quicker than you think.

And includes time to tweak settings, calibrate controllers, etc. So now you might be down to 90m or less.

Kxmode wrote on May 3, 2017, 23:11:

Squirmer wrote on May 3, 2017, 17:49:

Kxmode wrote on May 3, 2017, 16:41:
The refund policy is NOT the equivalent of a PC demo and should never be used by publishers as a justification for not releasing a demo when the console versions have them!

Frankly, a refund is the last action a gamer takes when the game doesn't work for them. Two hours is only enough time to tell if the game will even run. There are way too many games that require several hours to see if the game is worth keeping.

So 2 hours isn't enough...but you want the console demo which is only 1 hour?

You say that like those are the only two options. There's another. Steam is a digital distribution platform like Xbox Live and PSN. This gives publishers control over their products. Arkane could ask Steam to release the game 48 hours before the official launch with a 5-hour time limit. For one day (midnight to midnight), everyone can play through Steam for up to five hours. Afterward, the Play button is disabled until launch. Five hours is plenty of time to test on a machine and know if it is worth a purchase. It wouldn't be hard to do this for launch titles. Publishers do this all the time with their "free weekends."

Wow, you are asking a lot! A 5 hours demo? What the hell are you talking about? Games can be finished if you rush them in 5 hours. Also, name a demo that lasted longer than 5 hours in the last 20 years.

Just watch YouTube reviews, contemplate whether this is your type of game or not. Ask yourself where your doubts reside. Buy the game if you're up for taking the possible risk. Play 2 hours to confirm or remove your doubts.
All is good.

Jagacademy wrote on May 3, 2017, 11:33:

Kajetan wrote on May 3, 2017, 10:54:

Dacote wrote on May 3, 2017, 10:31:
Is there such a thing as Demo abuse?

Not yet

I buy roughly 6 games a month, and refund 4 of them on average.

Here's the kicker though: If we couldn't refund, I would probably only buy 6 a year.

The fact of the matter is that "The ability to return purchases = more purchases". This is why literally EVERY retail store allows refunds. If you take them away, you ultimately have less sales.

Refunds increase revenue, not vice versa.

No one is arguing against refunds. However, it seems like a dick move to tell everyone to get it on Steam and just refund it if they don't like it. I wonder what Steam's response to that is.

HorrorScope wrote on May 3, 2017, 10:22:
If concerned wait a day for user reviews. Big whoop.

But, but, but what if they run out of stock?

Squirmer wrote on May 3, 2017, 17:49:

Kxmode wrote on May 3, 2017, 16:41:
The refund policy is NOT the equivalent of a PC demo and should never be used by publishers as a justification for not releasing a demo when the console versions have them!

Frankly, a refund is the last action a gamer takes when the game doesn't work for them. Two hours is only enough time to tell if the game will even run. There are way too many games that require several hours to see if the game is worth keeping.

So 2 hours isn't enough...but you want the console demo which is only 1 hour?

You say that like those are the only two options. There's another. Steam is a digital distribution platform like Xbox Live and PSN. This gives publishers control over their products. Arkane could ask Steam to release the game 48 hours before the official launch with a 5-hour time limit. For one day (midnight to midnight), everyone can play through Steam for up to five hours. Afterward, the Play button is disabled until launch. Five hours is plenty of time to test on a machine and know if it is worth a purchase. It wouldn't be hard to do this for launch titles. Publishers do this all the time with their "free weekends."

Overon wrote on May 3, 2017, 17:32:
I thought the explanation was that releasing a PC demo would require DRM which would give a leg up head start for crackers looking to crack the PC retail release as soon as possible.

Also the guys is playing semantic games. When people say "PC port" they mean the PC release of a game that is also released on consoles. We all know that all games are written and designed on PC's but that doesn't stop so many multiplatform releases from being shitty on PC. What he's saying is true but misleading and people who lie by telling the truth can go fuck themselves.

What we really want to know is how much testing and optimization went into the PC version.

I'm laying odds that it was the bare minimum.

And this is one way games are urged towards my, 'will play in a few years when it's $10' list...

Looking forward to The Surge in a few weeks though ; )