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NVIDIA Flow Video

This video was posted the other day by NVIDIA, so thanks Hypothermia for noticing it. This is a demonstration of NVIDIA GameWorks Flow in DirectX 12, which includes some snappy visuals (but no auto insurance). The description goes into some detail, in case "snappy" was too technical for you:
NVIDIA Flow is a realtime fluid simulation - in this demo, simulating fire and smoke. The simulation is based on an adaptive sparse voxel grid, allowing the simulation to focus compute and memory resources around regions of interest, and track shifts in the region of interest over time.

With the fire, the combustion process is simulated per voxel, generating elevated temperatures and smoke, which influences the visual appearance and produces buoyancy and expansion effects on the fluid simulation.

An adaptive sparse voxel grid is also used to compute self-shadowing on the smoke, increasing both the realism and visualizing the structure of the smoke. The fluid simulation supports real time collision with objects in the environment, along with fuel emitters than can be modified in real time, making the simulation fully interactive.

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22. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 25, 2017, 16:11 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 25, 2017, 04:25:
Slick wrote on Apr 24, 2017, 12:26:
rant

The way this works is, you post a rant then you back it up with a link. If there's no link, I just assume you're talking out of your ass and move on. If there's a link, I follow it up and edumakate myself.

See?
Didn't work, you just got another rant. Better luck next time.
 
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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
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21. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 25, 2017, 08:51 Slick
 
Assume at your own peril.

Some games' use of PhysX is not optional. If you're running on an AMD card, then it's just offloaded to the CPU. Ask anyone who's only ever owned AMD cards why they have a mysterious PhysX installation folder on their computer. And ask them what happens if they delete it and then try to run certain games, the game won't run.

Under DX11, most of the work is already being offloaded to one core, add the latency for that core to calculate PhysX, and it effectively stalls the GPU. DX12 could help with this, once devs actually code for it from the ground up.

Then there's the whole bullshit around Nvidia forcing ridiculous tessellation levels (64x) on objects that get zero noticeable visual gain from it. This is because Gameworks titles will handle the ridiculous tessellation better than AMD, so the performance penalty will be much higher on AMD cards.

And I've done some digging, yes, Nvidia has fucked performance on older gens of their own cards. Witcher 3 fucked Kepler hard. A 960 outperformed a 780 ($200 card beating a $700 card).

Really though, I'd do a "lmgtfy" for "why gameworks sucks" but I can't even be bothered. Do your own homework, you don't need to be spoon fed.
 
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For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
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20. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 25, 2017, 04:25 jdreyer
 
Slick wrote on Apr 24, 2017, 12:26:
Here's the Coles notes version:

Gameworks isn't just an optional "added effect", as it's inclusion in games has time and time again proven to be outright detrimental to the performance of main competitors hardware on the same title. It is a thinly-veiled attempt to thwart AMD, and many games have fallen prey to this barbaric corporate practice.

It is not "easily bypassed"

It is not "optional"

I'm sorry to say that if you think this is a case of "take it or leave it" you're sadly mistaken. Just because you can enable or disable the effect doesn't mean that Gameworks' tendrils aren't deep at the heart of the code, it's true purpose to skew benchmarks in their favor. It does so at the cost of other PC gamers under the guise of providing cheap thrills to the 1% of gamers who can afford hardware capable of actually delivering.

This isn't theory, there are multiple examples of this. Studios who had their games running splendidly on AMD hardware for most of the development cycle, and then Nvidia swoops in at the last minute, injects it's maliscious code to add a few questionable "PhysX" effects, and all of a sudden the game runs poorly on AMD hardware. These are not isolated incidents but a pattern of targeted aggression towards their competition, with Gamers being used as the pawns.

It's disgraceful, and anyone who defends this practice needs to have their head examined, or at the very least learn what the fuck they're talking about.

The way this works is, you post a rant then you back it up with a link. If there's no link, I just assume you're talking out of your ass and move on. If there's a link, I follow it up and edumakate myself.

See?
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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19. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 18:45 Slick
 
I haven't heard that they adversely affect performance on older Nvidia cards, but considering what I know about their tactics, it wouldn't surprise me.  
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For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
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18. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 13:22 Leper
 
It's not only AMD cards that are adversely affected - it's also older NVIDIA cards. Whenever NVIDIA wants a sales boost, they can add some new useless feature to Gameworks that runs great on their new cards, but poorly on AMD and their older cards. I wouldn't have a problem if all these features were optional, but it's my understanding that they aren't always.  
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17. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 12:26 Slick
 
Here's the Coles notes version:

Gameworks isn't just an optional "added effect", as it's inclusion in games has time and time again proven to be outright detrimental to the performance of main competitors hardware on the same title. It is a thinly-veiled attempt to thwart AMD, and many games have fallen prey to this barbaric corporate practice.

It is not "easily bypassed"

It is not "optional"

I'm sorry to say that if you think this is a case of "take it or leave it" you're sadly mistaken. Just because you can enable or disable the effect doesn't mean that Gameworks' tendrils aren't deep at the heart of the code, it's true purpose to skew benchmarks in their favor. It does so at the cost of other PC gamers under the guise of providing cheap thrills to the 1% of gamers who can afford hardware capable of actually delivering.

This isn't theory, there are multiple examples of this. Studios who had their games running splendidly on AMD hardware for most of the development cycle, and then Nvidia swoops in at the last minute, injects it's maliscious code to add a few questionable "PhysX" effects, and all of a sudden the game runs poorly on AMD hardware. These are not isolated incidents but a pattern of targeted aggression towards their competition, with Gamers being used as the pawns.

It's disgraceful, and anyone who defends this practice needs to have their head examined, or at the very least learn what the fuck they're talking about.
 
Avatar 57545
 



For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
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16. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 10:56 Zor
 
I think there are reasons to be cranky about Gameworks and reasons to be glad of it.

I'm glad there are hardware/software developers who are getting to create stuff like what we see in the video. It's very cool and I'm sure it was a rewarding challenge for them and they get to see their work shown off and hopefully implemented in the future.

But then, I'm sick of Nvidia's marketing management keeping a system like this so closed off from reality that we almost never see it implemented in games and whenever it is it's an afterthought (@ BL2 reference, which was a good example). I have the same gripes with dual GPU support as well.

Advances like this shouldn't be stuck behind proprietary hardware and it sucks that there are people at NV who still think it benefits them to keep it that way. I can't imagine developers are being incentivized enough or at all to bring these wacky features to their games at the exclusion of customers. You don't want to be the game developer who tells it's players that they're wrong for buying AMD.
 
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15. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 09:59 Bundy
 
Oh god, forums here are turning into wccf fanboy bullshit.  
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14. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 09:17 wtf_man
 
Really? You're gonna call a lot of folks that have been here a long time, "shills", when they have often also posted negative things about nVidia as well? They're all "ignorant" just because they disagree with you?

You from California or something? Rolleyes

As for the tech... I am unimpressed with anything DirectX12. Show off that shit in Vulkan and I might be impressed. Fuck Microsoft.

This comment was edited on Apr 24, 2017, 09:28.
 
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Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
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13. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 09:09 Agent-Zero
 
Rotfl holy shit the retards are out in force  
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12. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 09:02 Slick
 
Wow, you guys are actually defending Nvidia Gameworks, LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Respect.... Deleted.

Either you simply don't know what you're talking about, and are ignorant of the true story here, or you're all the shilliest of shills. I bet it's the first one, as on the surface "ooh look, a pretty effect, what could be at all insidious about this?" "Oh come on Slick, they only use it in 2 or 3 games, what's the harm?"

Yeah, you clearly need to do your homework on Gameworks... sigh, I could write an opinion piece on this, but there's already stuff out there.

Do your homework kiddies.
 
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For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
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11. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 24, 2017, 03:20 Wesp5
 
Sorry, while this may be cool if you know that it is rendered in realtime, but from afar it just looks like good old sprites because the flames and the smoke are much too symetrical...  
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10. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 23:53 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 23, 2017, 15:42:
Slick wrote on Apr 23, 2017, 14:58:
Mandatory snip
Nice shortsighted and clueless rant.
Last time I checked developers made games not Nvidia.
If the devs want to include features like this you should cry to them.

Got to agree.

Seriously Slick, nVidia only PhysX implementations appeared in like 3 AAA games and was easily bypassed. In BL2 the implementation was super gimmicky. It was bett3r in Batman but still superfluous. This will be the same: some checkbox on 3 games that 5% of people will turn on.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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9. No subject Apr 23, 2017, 21:40 Mashiki Amiketo
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 23, 2017, 19:40:

That's true and most pretty modern games like MEA are complete fucking garbage but I would not even say that they look photo or movie realistic.

That's not going to change until people either stop buying, and/or contact the developer/publisher and tell that they don't want absolute garbage. MEA has a lot right, and a lot wrong with it. If they'd gotten someone who'd written anything other then fanfic to write a story it could have been better.
 



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8. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 19:40 CJ_Parker
 
Caslon wrote on Apr 23, 2017, 18:55:
Games are getting more and more photo/movie realistic, but that doesn't help things when the gameplay is crap, does it?

That's true and most pretty modern games like MEA are complete fucking garbage but I would not even say that they look photo or movie realistic.

Frostshite, for example, has a very distinct artificial look&feel. It definitely looks very gamey and, if at all, maybe more movie-"real" (in SWBF thanks to photogrammetry) than photoreal or real-real.

I can't really think of a truly photo-realistic looking modern game. It almost seems to me that devs either try to avoid real settings or intentionally put that gamey/artsy look on them in order to avoid a too realistic depiction of violence.
 
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7. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 18:55 Caslon
 
Games are getting more and more photo/movie realistic, but that doesn't help things when the gameplay is crap, does it?  
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6. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 18:25 eRe4s3r
 
The effects are pretty good, but the way the fire behaves (fire blending into smoke so slowly and gradually) is still looking fake... and the way smoke behaves looks extremely fake

So still a few years away from photo realistic effects.... also, black smoke like that would soot that surface like nothing else. Which only adds to the fake appearance, Nvidia needs to step up their game
 
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5. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 16:15 Agent-Zero
 
thats bad ass... i was fuckin around with particle systems in Maya a couple years ago, doing a few effects that are more or less identical to whats going on in this video... and it would take days to render that shit out, not to mention how slow it was to setup due to lack of competent real time previews...

always love me some particle fx
 
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4. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 15:42 RedEye9
 
Slick wrote on Apr 23, 2017, 14:58:
Mandatory snip
Nice shortsighted and clueless rant.
Last time I checked developers made games not Nvidia.
If the devs want to include features like this you should cry to them.
 
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“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
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3. Re: NVIDIA Flow Video Apr 23, 2017, 15:31 jacobvandy
 
Stuff like this stems directly from the acquisition of PhysX and continuing R&D in that field. They don't use the branding much anymore because these days NVIDIA *is* PhysX.

Anyway, it took only a year and a half between them showcasing what is essentially the latest iteration of PhysX, NVIDIA Flex, and its first usage in Killing Floor 2 as hardware-accelerated blood and guts which run perfectly fine with the highest detail on my 970. It's not quite what they show in the tech demo (fluids have to be pretty thick and goopy to not kill performance), but implementation improves over time as hardware and software efficiency does. I'd imagine something like more realistic fire and smoke would be even easier to implement quickly if you leave out the physical interaction.
 
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