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Into the Black

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22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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22. Re: Into the Black Apr 17, 2017, 11:09 Kxmode
 
yuastnav wrote on Apr 17, 2017, 07:32:
I saw A New hope in the mid-90s or something like that. I didn't even like Star Wars when I saw it for the first time. And yeah, TFA was basically A New Hope. Don't really care about that, it was still an awesome movie.

Actually, TFA is a blend of New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. I don't have a problem with it.
 
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21. Re: Into the Black Apr 17, 2017, 07:32 yuastnav
 
Redmask wrote on Apr 16, 2017, 08:57:
yuastnav wrote on Apr 16, 2017, 05:54:
Yeah, I dunno. I enjoyed The Force Awakens a lot. I loved that movie. I also liked Rogue One, although not as much as TFA. I'm really, really looking forward to episode 8, have been since I saw episode 7.

Yeah everyone loved TFA. They loved it the first time they saw it 40 years ago.

I saw A New hope in the mid-90s or something like that. I didn't even like Star Wars when I saw it for the first time.
And yeah, TFA was basically A New Hope. Don't really care about that, it was still an awesome movie.
 
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20. Re: Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Plans Apr 16, 2017, 16:43 Kxmode
 
Redmask wrote on Apr 16, 2017, 08:57:
yuastnav wrote on Apr 16, 2017, 05:54:
Yeah, I dunno. I enjoyed The Force Awakens a lot. I loved that movie. I also liked Rogue One, although not as much as TFA. I'm really, really looking forward to episode 8, have been since I saw episode 7.

Yeah everyone loved TFA. They loved it the first time they saw it 40 years ago.

Rolleyes
 
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19. Re: Into the Black Apr 16, 2017, 13:37 JohnQP
 
Are there any games that involve breaking up a story into sentence fragments, scrambling the fragments, and then reassembling them to get a different story? Because that's really what it felt like they did with Star Wars and TFA. At best. Sometimes they didn't even break up the sentences.

Star Wars: The Reshuffling:

"K, what if we made the farm boy from a desert planet with huge force potential into a scrap girl from a desert planet who is a jedi knight right out of the box? And instead of being chased off-planet by an evil empire, SHE can be chased off-planet by an evil ORDER."

"K, what if we ditched the boring old white guy (calling a white guy "master" is racist anyway) and just made Mary Sue a jedi from birth? Maybe she can meet a wise MISTRESS at some point."

"K, what if we replaced the skeptical rogue and his hairy sidekick in the fast ship with a faithful old rogue and his hairy sidekick in the fast ship?"

"K, what if instead of Darth Vader betraying and killing his master and being Luke's father (surprise!) with his redemption being a slow-boiler resolved at the end, we had Darth Ren betraying and killing his master and being Han's son and killing his father (surprise!) and his redemption being a teaser dangled right from the start?"

"K, what if instead of a hail-mary fighter attack against a planet-killing spheroid the size of a small moon, we had a hail-mary fighter attack against a multiple-planet-killing spheroid the size of a large moon?"

"K, instead of of an ascendant Space Nazi Empire, what if we had an ascendant Space Commie Empire? Hahahahahahahahahahaha, yeah rrrright! The Commies only killed like 10x as many innocent people as the Nazis did, where did that crazy idea come from? Pfft. I mean, are we in Hollywood, or are we in Hollywood? Che was so cute! Castro, so manly! Seriously though, what if we had a RESURGENT Space Nazi Empire?"

"K, what if we replaced the whiny white kid with a goofy black kid?"

"K, what if we replaced the evil old WHITE emperor with an evil old WHITE emperor? Oh, and hey, he can first appear in the first film, instead of the second, just to really shake things up and infuse some originality. We can go even further and not call him an emperor."

"K, what if instead of having Leia entrust the all-important data to an R2 droid, we have POE entrust the all-important data to a BB droid?"

"K, instead of a cantina on a desert planet and a wise old green dwarf in a swamp in the middle of nowhere, how about a wise old dyke dwarf in a cantina in the middle of nowhere?"
 
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18. Re: Into the Black Apr 16, 2017, 13:00 JohnQP
 
'Course I say Solo's dead, but falling out of sight is a pretty classic obscure death. For all we know, he's in a room 50 stories down playing go fish with Palpatine.  
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17. Re: Into the Black Apr 16, 2017, 08:57 Redmask
 
yuastnav wrote on Apr 16, 2017, 05:54:
Yeah, I dunno. I enjoyed The Force Awakens a lot. I loved that movie. I also liked Rogue One, although not as much as TFA. I'm really, really looking forward to episode 8, have been since I saw episode 7.

Yeah everyone loved TFA. They loved it the first time they saw it 40 years ago.
 
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16. Re: Into the Black Apr 16, 2017, 05:54 yuastnav
 
Yeah, I dunno. I enjoyed The Force Awakens a lot. I loved that movie. I also liked Rogue One, although not as much as TFA. I'm really, really looking forward to episode 8, have been since I saw episode 7.  
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15. Re: Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Plans Apr 15, 2017, 23:41 Kxmode
 
Despite what people say, I love Rogue One and like TFA. I've already warmed up to the Poe, Fin, Kylo, and Rey as the new leads. I'm looking forward to Episode 8 with great anticipation! Dance  
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14. Re: Morning Mobilization Apr 15, 2017, 20:24 JohnQP
 
One the one hand, I have hope in Rian Johnson. I've so enjoyed his previous films: Looper, Brick, Brothers Bloom. On the other hand, he wrote all those films himself in addition to directing, and while he has writer credit here, I wonder how being saddled with the baggage of the past and studio meddling will affect the outcome of TLJ.

While producer meddling is always an open question, the typical process, as far as I can gather, is that the director is God (at least during primary shooting/production stage). If he wants to change the script, he changes the script. On the other hand, if there were ever to be any studio meddling, I can easily see it in an important franchise like Star Wars. Then there's the issue of how much does the director really like messing with the script, when he didn't write it.

Rogue One wasn't bad except everyone dies, and I didn't care for the Rogue One theme (was too heroic, or something, it just didn't fit).

It wasn't so much that everyone dies, it's that the doomed thing was so heavily stamped over everything. The foreshadowing was laid on pretty thick, in the script, the dialog, the actors' performances, the tone, everything. It could've used a bit more of the Viking sensibility (we're all doomed, so fuck it let's live it up while we can and have a good laugh now and then. Like a couple of scenes in The 13th Warrior).

The whole tired, worn-out, threadbare, cheesy blind Asian master thing was the standout problem with the movie for me.

That, and I couldn't help thinking that any Rebellion that needs some walk-on to do the inspiring is doomed to failure.

What do you mean? Or who, I guess is the better question. I know loads of people on the spectrum from little kids seeing Star Wars the first time to my middle-aged mom who saw the original in theatres love Rey as the protagonist.

I can see how women and children would love all that sticky Mary Sue.


how about a yoda origin story? or yoda doing some kind of space wizard kung fu type shit in his prime? thats the only star wars movie i would be remotely interested in

Before the prequels, my idea for Yoda was to have him human-sized in his youth, and he only shrank and shriveled as the centuries wore on. That way, one day we could see his backstory where he's a badass-badass, not a wizened dwarf badass.

same goes for martial arts movies - when it comes to those from hong kong, almost all of them are 100x better than hollywood crap..

especially the stuff from jet li and jackie chan before they came over

I think part of this is our labor laws and insurance rates. I've seen a few outtake stunt reels from HK flicks, the stunt people can (be told to) do all kinds of risky shit, and it translates into more "kinetic" performances.

Re: Han Solo's death, did anyone think he wasn't a dead man the second he stepped onto that bridge? Anyone who hadn't figured out his link to Vader Jr., I mean? Or, wait, was it even a secret at that point? I had trouble paying attention to that movie, it was so bad.

This comment was edited on Apr 15, 2017, 20:35.
 
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13. Re: Morning Mobilization Apr 15, 2017, 19:40 Ecthelion
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 11:47:
edit: I had some further thoughts on why the Han Solo death works so well thematically and emotionally.

All stories depend upon the protagonist facing a crisis, and that protagonist growing and changing so that when the story reaches its climax, he or she can take the action necessary to resolve the crisis. The Han Solo character affects an air of selfishness and greed, but at his core he's a good guy, and his story, over the course of the original trilogy and in TFA, is ultimately one of learning to set aside his airs of self-interest so that he can fully take part in something bigger and more important than himself, i.e. the Rebellion, and contribute his essential goodness as a man to that cause.

As a result, TFA acts as a perfect coda to his story in the original trilogy. TFA leaves many of the details only hinted at, but the experience of Han's son turning to the dark side and the collapse of his relationship with Leia, has led him to retreat back into that shell of selfishness, a shell that was always more about self-protection than about who he truly was. Once Han and Chewie plant the charges, they could have slipped out quietly and accomplished their mission without incident, but when he see's his son, he can't do that. Because of who he is, because he is a good man who loves his son more than he loves himself, he has to confront him, to try to bring him home, no matter the risk to himself.

Han's brief experience of being a father figure to Rey and Finn means that when he's sees the young man for whom he is actually a father, Han can no longer hide from who he is and has to confront the crisis of his son. Han, a beloved, likable character, dies because he is the man he is, and because he takes the action that is in keeping with his character. As a result, we get a devastating scene, where your jaw drops in shock and horror, that simultaneously concludes the thematic arc of Han's character and gives him an end that fits perfectly with his growth and change over the course of four films. That's effective storytelling, even if Han has planted explosive charges before.
Agreed, I think the end of his story was very effective. As a father myself, it made the impact of his death even bigger for me.
 
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12. Re: Morning Mobilization Apr 15, 2017, 11:47 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Pigeon wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 10:27:
I thought the characters were much better developed in TFA, but Rogue One had a better overall plot/story. I think if they don't , you know, retell the plot of the original 3 movies again TLJ has a chance to be good.

I personally thought TFA was vastly more enjoyable than Rogue One for the reason you allude to: TFA had well developed, likable characters that you empathize with and root for, where as Rogue One got as far as a name and a costume for its characters, figured that was good enough to sell some action figures, and left it at that. I mean seriously, without looking it up, name everyone on the Rogue One team and describe their personality... good luck, lol.

I liked that Rogue One tried to go for a grittier take on Star Wars, but ultimately it was a film that was working from a hackish script, leading to a joyless and lifeless adventure. I just contrast everyone dying at the end of Rogue One, a moment that should have been devastating but instead was just mildly surprising, with Han Solo's death -- the selfish rogue dying because in the end he couldn't turn away from the ultimate act of selflessness: a parent loving their child -- or Rey taking up the light saber to face Kylo Ren, and suddenly the fact that TFA starts with a lost droid on a desert planet and ends with an assault on a super weapon doesn't bother me as much. TFA may have rehashed the original trilogy, but it did so through scenes that were thematically and emotionally satisfying.

edit: I had some further thoughts on why the Han Solo death works so well thematically and emotionally.

All stories depend upon the protagonist facing a crisis, and that protagonist growing and changing so that when the story reaches its climax, he or she can take the action necessary to resolve the crisis. The Han Solo character affects an air of selfishness and greed, but at his core he's a good guy, and his story, over the course of the original trilogy and in TFA, is ultimately one of learning to set aside his airs of self-interest so that he can fully take part in something bigger and more important than himself, i.e. the Rebellion, and contribute his essential goodness as a man to that cause.

As a result, TFA acts as a perfect coda to his story in the original trilogy. TFA leaves many of the details only hinted at, but the experience of Han's son turning to the dark side and the collapse of his relationship with Leia, has led him to retreat back into that shell of selfishness, a shell that was always more about self-protection than about who he truly was. Once Han and Chewie plant the charges, they could have slipped out quietly and accomplished their mission without incident, but when he see's his son, he can't do that. Because of who he is, because he is a good man who loves his son more than he loves himself, he has to confront him, to try to bring him home, no matter the risk to himself.

Han's brief experience of being a father figure to Rey and Finn means that when he's sees the young man for whom he is actually a father, Han can no longer hide from who he is and has to confront the crisis of his son. Han, a beloved, likable character, dies because he is the man he is, and because he takes the action that is in keeping with his character. As a result, we get a devastating scene, where your jaw drops in shock and horror, that simultaneously concludes the thematic arc of Han's character and gives him an end that fits perfectly with his growth and change over the course of four films. That's effective storytelling, even if Han has planted explosive charges before.

This comment was edited on Apr 15, 2017, 12:15.
 
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11. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 10:27 Pigeon
 
The Half Elf wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 00:36:
TFA wasn't bad, but I've seen the movie before.

Rogue One wasn't bad except everyone dies, and I didn't care for the Rogue One theme (was too heroic, or something, it just didn't fit).

The Last Jedi trailer would be much better without the breath breath parts.

I thought the characters were much better developed in TFA, but Rogue One had a better overall plot/story. I think if they don't , you know, retell the plot of the original 3 movies again TLJ has a chance to be good.
 
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10. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 10:16 RoboNerd
 
I'm still waiting on a movie to flesh out the history of the Sith, and the Emperor's origins.

Is that too much to ask?
 
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9. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 08:31 Agent-Zero
 
VaranDragon wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 07:03:
Agent-Zero wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 01:50:
"ninja scroll"

Still better than anything hollywood ever did with ninjas. Or jedi. Like a million times better.

same goes for martial arts movies - when it comes to those from hong kong, almost all of them are 100x better than hollywood crap..

especially the stuff from jet li and jackie chan before they came over
 
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8. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 07:03 VaranDragon
 
Agent-Zero wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 01:50:
"ninja scroll"

Still better than anything hollywood ever did with ninjas. Or jedi. Like a million times better.
 
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7. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 01:50 Agent-Zero
 
how about a yoda origin story? or yoda doing some kind of space wizard kung fu type shit in his prime? thats the only star wars movie i would be remotely interested in

you could even go ahead and rip off a bunch of movies like lucas did... im thinking "once upon a time in china", or "ninja scroll", or "tai chi master".. like who fucking cares, its just star wars
 
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6. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 00:37 jacobvandy
 
DangerDog wrote on Apr 14, 2017, 23:26:
How do you develop empathy for any of the characters when they're so unlikable. At this point I think you would get a bigger emotional reaction out of audience if you blew up the millennium falcon.


What do you mean? Or who, I guess is the better question. I know loads of people on the spectrum from little kids seeing Star Wars the first time to my middle-aged mom who saw the original in theatres love Rey as the protagonist.
 
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5. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 00:36 The Half Elf
 
TFA wasn't bad, but I've seen the movie before.

Rogue One wasn't bad except everyone dies, and I didn't care for the Rogue One theme (was too heroic, or something, it just didn't fit).

The Last Jedi trailer would be much better without the breath breath parts.
 
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Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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4. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 00:34 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 15, 2017, 00:01:
Yifes wrote on Apr 14, 2017, 21:44:
Hope it's less disappointing than the Force Awakens.

I really disliked TFA. I did like Rogue One, so I know there is still good in me.

One the one hand, I have hope in Rian Johnson. I've so enjoyed his previous films: Looper, Brick, Brothers Bloom. On the other hand, he wrote all those films himself in addition to directing, and while he has writer credit here, I wonder how being saddled with the baggage of the past and studio meddling will affect the outcome of TLJ.

Well, it's not like the plot could be worse than The Force Awakens....could it?

"Let's build a BIGGER Death Star, because their track record is so good!"
 
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3. Re: Into the Black Apr 15, 2017, 00:01 jdreyer
 
Yifes wrote on Apr 14, 2017, 21:44:
Hope it's less disappointing than the Force Awakens.

I really disliked TFA. I did like Rogue One, so I know there is still good in me.

One the one hand, I have hope in Rian Johnson. I've so enjoyed his previous films: Looper, Brick, Brothers Bloom. On the other hand, he wrote all those films himself in addition to directing, and while he has writer credit here, I wonder how being saddled with the baggage of the past and studio meddling will affect the outcome of TLJ.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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